I don't know what to do about this- I feel like I should call them about something but am not completely clear on the facts.
There is this family that lives down the street- all grownups. Granny about 65 or so, her son who is mentally challenged about 40 and her grandson who is 22. He is not the son of the 40 yr old- his Mom lives in another city.
Anyway- here's my problem. Someone in the neighborhood told me that this 22 yr old is sleeping with a 14 yr old. I've seen her come and go from the house- usually arrives right after school bus comes around from middle school- I don't know if she leaves any other time- but she leaves every morning around 7: 45 am - goes to the bus stop. I see her leave everyday because I am out waiting for my oldest daughter's ese bus to come right then. A few times I've seen an adult meet her at the corner so obviously they know where she was. I don't know her- I don't even know where she lives- I know which bus stop she's at and maybe which middle school she goes to. She's not on my 11 yr olds bus so I'm not sure if she goes to her school and a different middle school or maybe even the high school.

What I don't get is granny letting this girl come over there all the time. She is a little crazy- eccentric I'd say- she's very helpful to everyone in the neighborhood too. This 22 yr old already got 1 girl pregnant when she was only 16- started out the same way- she was always there but she was a runaway- every time someone would call- she'd high tail it out of there and disappear for a day or 2.

Before it was kind of dismissed because he was only 17 himself back then- but we are talking a 22 yr old man now. This girls family knows she's there- and don't seem concerned but maybe they don't know his age? I hope that is what it is

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Mom to Katie 1/95 and Sara 5/97

If you believe this is going on..cAll police or social services or somewhere now. That's really sick for a 22yo man to have a 14yo girl sleeping over. The next town over from me a 13yo girl who has been missing since October, was just found dead in a ditch Wed. Her 18yo bf was arrested yesterday. Just like a 22yo with a 14yo, there's something really wrong with that guy.

of course, I do hope your neighbor (the one who told you) is totally wrong and that the girl is maybe another grandchild or relative and not with the guy...we can only hope.

What a mess. Isn't it statutory rape if he's 22 and she's 14? They need help. Good luck!

You can't really do anything, what someone told you is hearsay, so you don't really have anything to report. Now if the person that told you knows for sure they are sleeping together then they can report it to the police for rape because of the age difference. Social Services wouldn't be involved because it is not a caretaker or guardian situation. I used to investigate child abuse and neglect for DHS, this type of situation wouldn't fall into that category. Now if you knew where the girls parents lived and the parents were letting her go over and have sex with this guy then you could report that to DHS because that would be a lack of supervision against the parents. You would have to know they were having sex and you would have to know the parents knew she was having sex and let her go anyway and you would have to have an address where she lives so someone could go investigate the parents. You could call the police and see what they say, but all you really know for sure is that she visits the house. If they guy is known to the police or has a history (with them or possibility of sexual abuse in the past, even just suspician) then they might pay him a visit. They say there are no records of past reports but people do have memories and if any police have worked in that area for awhile and know this guy and has calls before, they might be more willing to make a visit and ask some questions. Or if they go over there and the girl is there then the police can take her home, talk to the parents and they WILL make a report to DHS against the parents if they feel it's necessary. I am guessing the police will tell you there is nothing they can do, but hopefully they might do something. It would be much better coming from the person that actually know they are having sex, that would mean that they have actually seen them having sex or that the guy or the girl have told them they are having sex.

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Penny I don't doubt you worked for DHS, but I can tell you first hand in Va especially Fairfax County even if the abuse sexual or physical is reported as being done by a non-family member it IS investigated by CPS.

I have been told in my recent training sessions in the breakthrough series I am doing that if you see smoke there usually is fire and never be afraid to make a call to CPS no matter how insignificant it may seem to you because to a child or youth it could mean a lot more than they make it out to be.

OP Make the call you can remain anonymous just tell them of your concerns that this young girl is going to this home after school she does not belong to them and she stays overnight and that there has in the past been a awkward situation involving the 20 yr old in the past and you are concerned about her safety. That's all there is to it.

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I'd go with this.
Someone has to look out for the kid, since her parents are asleep at the wheel.

I did CPS in the State of VA for The City of Newport News.

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You said yourself you don't know all the facts. It is possible that this family is responsible for the girl for a period of time, or she could be related and have recently come to live with them.

I think it's a myob situation until you know for a fact there is solid reason to call.

dl

Criteria for Child Abuse

Alleged victim is under the age of 18 at the time of the report
Alleged abuser is in a caretaking role
Alleged abuse or neglect meets the definition of abuse or neglect as defined by the CPS laws, regulations and policy
The Virginia Department of Social Services local agency has jurisdiction to respond to the report

Taken from the VA website. Would be very much the same for every state.

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1) you don't know that anything is going on
2) you don't even know this girl or her parents
3) this girl might be somehow related to this neighbor and her family (not that that necessarily excludes some sort of sexual conduct...)

I'd say you either need to get some more facts before you start filing reports, or you need to mind your own business...

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

It seems like you know way too few facts. For all you know, she's a relative that comes over and helps out Granny and the 40 year-old. Why not engage Granny in conversation and ask her who the girl is?

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- Stephen Colbert.

I think that I would call social services and tell them what you heard. They can either investigate or not. I wouldn't feel right if I were to suspect that a child is being abused and I just stood by with my mouth shut.

I know she is not a relative- and I don't know this all from observation either- another neighbor that knows the 22 yr old is the one that told me about the girl being 14 and that he was sleeping with her. That's when I started noticing her coming and going everyday. I am going to go talk to the people that live next door to them and ask if they have any idea who she is today- I don't think they would be they think Granny is crazy too and just ignore her. This woman thinks that the lines that planes leave behind them when skywriting is the government trying to poison every one. Granny is very giving - helps out when people need it but she is a crackpot.
I am calling them.

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Mom to Katie 1/95 and Sara 5/97

Then personally, I would be questioning my friend as to why they have not called someone. I think you should just keep your eyes open, and your mouth closed at this point.

Do you have the opportunity to speak with the girl??? Maybe befriend her, and let her know that if she ever needs anything, you are just a few doors away, knock anytime.....something like that maybe???

You will most likely infuriate these people if you do call and nothing is going on. They will find out it was you, and honestly, if your friend told you the girl was sleeping with the man, she will surely tell them that YOU called on them.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I don't know what to tell you and I am glad I am not in your shoes.

However, I thought I would offer one thing. My brother is a high school teacher and he is required to law to report ANYTHING he thinks could be abuse. He explained it to me like this, " I see a mark and the thought crosses my mind, could that be abuse of some sort?" It crossed his mind, he is required to report it.

He doesn't have to have any proof. Is it different if you aren't a teacher? Do you have to have proof to report it and let Family Services investigate & decide?

Again, I don't know. I'm not a teacher and I don't know the rules (other than what my brother told me), I was just wondering if it matters that you don't have proof? Isn't that Family Services job - to investagate and decide?

Lisa

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It's wanting what you've got"

The neighbor is not really a friend and she mentioned it while she was drunk and mad at the world basically. She just came over to use the phone because hers had been turned off. She was on a tirade about alot of things- she does know these people better than I do. She knows others that are involved with these people also. That is part of why I started paying attention because of what she told me.

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Mom to Katie 1/95 and Sara 5/97

Yes, it is different if you are a teacher. There are certain people who are "mandated" to report, one of those people are teachers, principals, counselors, doctors, people who work at DHS ie: food stamp workers, family service workers, police officers, and a few others, but those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head. If a mandated reporter does not make a report, they could lose their job, if it was later found out they knew or saw something and didn't say anything.

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That tells a lot. A drunk who runs her mouth. Yes, I'd put so much stock in what a drunk tells who can't keep her phone paid for to be able to use it.

Definitely a myob unless YOU personally have something solid to go on.

dl

Yes, it is Child Protective Services job to investigate child abuse. However, they won't even take a complaint without it meeting certain criteria, I listed that above from the VA statutes, would be the same in any state: The first being:
1. The child has to be under 18
2. The abuser has to be in a caretaker role (this could be a parent, guardian, babysitter, school teacher, camp counselor, or someone who the child is in "charge of the child" while the parents are not there.

In this particular case it does not seem as though this girl is allegedly being abused by a "caretaker". So therefore it would NOT fall into a Social Services category.

Also to make a complaint you need to have some type of first hand knowledge that something is happening. You saw bruises, you saw a belt mark, the kid said they were sleeping together, you heard the mom threaten to kill her. You have to give CPS a REASON to investigate. CPS can't just go out to someones house and "harass" them for no probable cause.

To give you some idea of the amount of complaints we used to investigate. there were 7 of us that did investigations full time. We each did 25-30 investigations a month. Each investigation could take up to 45 days (so some overlap). If there were any questions in our minds (but we couldn't quite get the evidence) we would hold onto a complaint for the full 45 days, make multiple visits and hope to come up with something before the end of the mandated time. Plus,we all had to be in court at different times, any time you had to remove kids you had to go to court, take a protective order, you had to go to court, get an order to make a parent talk to you you had to go to court, get court ordered counseling for someone go to court. That didn't take into account the sexual abuse cases that we worked with the Youth Bureau, all sexual abuae is worked with the Youth Bureau and CPS together (where I worked anyway) so coordinating schedules with detectives, going out and tracking down suspects and bringing them in for questioning. Then all the testifying in circuit court can last months/years after the initial 45 days of the investigation is worked. Plus being on call, someone has to be on call 24/7, we rotated weeks.

So anyway, point I am trying to make, is they screen the calls very carefully before taking a complaint at the local office. Now if you call the 24 hour hotline they may take the complaint or may not, but it would just get thrown out when it made it to the local office, because it doesn't meet the criteria of the 22 year old being a "caretaker".

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oh my god.....

Something a drunk, angry woman (and apparently she doesn't pay her bills either) is cause for you to "start" paying attention.

Obviously you know little to nothing about these people and you certainly don't know enough to start accusing people of sexual crimes!
If you are concerned that much, how about reaching out to the family w/ the DD child, the "eccentric" grandmother and young adult? How about reaching out to the girl you think is being abused?

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Unless there were more facts, I am not sure I would call. Although I can understand why you may want to get involved. It just sounds like at this point, no one really knows what, if anything is really going on. SInce her own parents are aware of the situation and aren't concerned, I am not so sure it would be wise to report it as an abuse case.

No, I don't much about them lately but I used to have dealings with them. I told you I don't even know where this girl lives- I only see her go from their house to a school bus stop in the mornings. The eccentric grandmother is not all there- why do you think this guy can get away with what he does. And as for the young adult- he's already gotten 1 underage girl pregnant and eventually abandoned them. Not to mention he is stoned or drunk most of the time.

And for the record you have no right to say anything about her not being able to pay her bills or being drunk. It's not her fault she has cancer and most of her money goes to medication. She was drunk that day because she was upset that her latest results show she is losing her battle with cancer. Yes, she shouldn't have been drunk especially with all the medications she's on but I think I could cut her a little slack for that.

I am only trying to figure out what the right thing to do is here- why are you coming down on me for asking advice on what to do?
This is part of the reason why I never post on here- some people just can't seem to make a comment without attacking the the op.
Never mind everyone, I should have known not to bother here. Thank you to everyone who tried to give me an idea of what to do without holding judgement

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Mom to Katie 1/95 and Sara 5/97

I haven't responded because I don't really know for sure what I would do. I really think this is one of those "you have to be there" type of things. Good luck with your decision.

People ask what to do and they get all sorts of responses. I have been interested in reading the responses, so I am glad you posted this.

You get all sorts of opinions when you ask a question. Sorry you aren't happy with the responses. No one knew the rest of the drunk's story ....

Anyway, good luck.

A few years ago, I found out my Uncle had molested my second cousin. He fondled her in various places. Her mother, my cousin didn't do anything but look the other way!
So I called the police. They talked to me, then found out my cousin's name and address and the uncle's name and address.
They spoke to my cousin, and told me they were putting the complaint in her name now, instead of mine. I was fine with that. The next day my cousin stopped the investegation Even though the child told her mom and the police of the fondling.
So even if you did call, doesn't mean anything would be done, if the girls parents don't want to press charges.

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I am happy with most of the responses- it is helping me make a decision. I just wish that people wouldn't post negative comments- they don't help anything

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Mom to Katie 1/95 and Sara 5/97

That's how the system here works.

Here's what I would do, just me personally, not saying its the right thing for anyone else - move! I personally don't need or want this kind of drama in my neighborhood.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

oh get a grip...
now, you're adding details to make the story work.
Let's be honest, you wanted others to tell you that you SHOULD run to CFS and make a report. That's what you want to do, so do it. Why come here for positive affirmations?

I don't think you should. You don't know enough to make a complaint.
Is that positive enough for you?

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I am glad that you found some advice that will help you with your decison. Its a subject that is often difficult to discuss. I would just want to make sure that I really knew what was happening before making a choice that could change lives. Many years ago, I took my three year old daugther to the doctors (ended up seeing a PA, because my Dr. was on vacation). I had a feeling that she might had a UTI. Because one of the issues was redness, the PA called child services. To make a very long story short, what they ended up doing to my daughter was as bad as if she had been molested. After putting her father and I thru hell, they ended up aplogizing because a simple urine test showed she did indeed have an infection, and that was the cause for the redness. All this happened because the PA made a mistake, and jumped to conclusions. He made assumptions that caused a great deal of pain to my entire family.

Ok, I can see what you really, really wanted to read, so here it is:

Go ahead, be a hero, call.

dl

I am sorry this happened to you! That is exactly what I was trying to say, CPS can't just go out and harass people because a neighbor "thinks" something is going on. And that is exactly what it is to me harassment. In your case the PA is a mandated reporter, BUT he could have asked you about the possibility of sexual abuse in his office and asked you as the parent some questions to possibly clear up the matter instead of making a "report". Just because someone is a mandated reporter doesn't mean they always know they are talking about, in my experience alot of them over react, which is ok because it is their job on the line, but alot of the time those reports are "unfounded".

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I do assume this is one of those situations where you probably do have to be there. Sometimes you just *know* something isn't right by the appearance of a person, the look they wear, the way they carry themselves, the way they dress... all of these things can trigger intuition that doesn't come out in the written word.

Admittedly, it sounds fishy and disconcerting.

Is it possible for you to just call DHS and explain the situation. Say....

"I have noticed an odd pattern happening next door to me and am concerned that a girl who is very much a minor may be having sex with a man in his 20's. I do not have any sort of proof, but his history and the hours she comes and goes suggest to me that something is amiss. I know that the minor girl who comes and goes from my 22yo neighbor's house is not related to him, and spends the night frequently. What, if anything, do I need to do with this information?"

They'll probably tell you what the parameters are for various levels of reporting, and you'll have your answer!

So someone in the neighborhood told you that this 22 year old is sleeping with a 14 year old and you're going to save the day, huh? I think you have way too much time on your hands. Spending your time gossiping about the neighbors is bad enough but filing sexual abuse reports against people you don't know anything about is inexcusable.

These kinds of charges can ruin someone's life and if you make an accusation of that sort, you need to be sure of the facts. The ramblings of drunks aren't reliable and you should have the decency to at least assure yourself that the information is true before you start meddling. I find it appalling that you would even consider calling CPS on someone based on gossip you got from a drunk that's angry at the world. A bitter drunk that didn't call CPS herself, I might add.

I would like to change my opinion, now that I see that the whole thing came from the ramblings of a drunk. WOW!

People blow me away sometimes, I mean If I had cancer the first thing I would do is run out and drink myself into oblivion that makes real sense there.
Humans confuse me more everyday.

Did you know ( general you ) that founded or unfounded reports of any kind of CPA report(s) stays on a persons record for 5 years in many states . Doesn't matter is the accused is innocent it still stays and not even a lawyer can get the report removed from the record.This can mean anyone working with children can and DO lose their jobs due to this.Plus, for 5 years if for any reasons that person needs to have a back ground check this will show up if the job title they are applying for uses the CPA reporting system for reports for the back ground check. Plus, If they work in any kind of child care setting and the job does yearly checks they can be fired for a report of ANY kind to CPA.Again, doesn't matter if there's not one oz of truth to the report if it shows up on a CPA back ground check you are doomed for 5 years in many states.

BTW I have a title to where we do a CPA and criminal back ground checks since we work with NOTHING but children year around.we even have to do a check to see if that person or even myself has had a parking ticket since the job at times requires us to drive the kids in a van.These checks are done yearly.