My 6yo DD just doesn't understand how to count using a counting line. She gets so upset, will not complete her work at school nor at home. We have worked and worked with her on how to use one. We have done the Ok if you have 5 apples and you wanted to buy 3 more how many will you have. We have told her start with 5 on the line and count 3 more. She will start with 5 but it goes like this. 5 ,1,2,3. Even tho she sees the 6,7,8 on the line. This has been going on for MONTHS .The teacher can't get thru to her, we can't get thru to her, so here I'm asking for anyones help that can point me to any books in her age level so she can read or see or ??? how it's suppose to be done. But, now if she uses her fingers she can do it or if she writes it out she can also do it. But she can't for the life of her understand this math line. I don't know what else we can do nor does the teacher know what can be done. She has to do this as it's part of her grade. This child is an A student till this quarter and all thats keeping her from the A is not understanding the math line. right now her grade is a C .. Anyone been there ? anyone have any suggestions that might help ? anything helpful will be very appreciated.
TIA

Why does she have to use the math line? It obviously frustrates her, cant she just use her fingers. We used beans, gummy bears, pennies. I don't ever remember using a math line for the boys. My feeling is to teach kids the way they learn best. Some kids will never get the math line and I think thats okay. The teacher needs to take a chill pill and start teaching to the student and not by the book. That's just my opinion.

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Mudpuppy

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Early childhood teacher here (me)...

Are you talking about the number line being used as a way to learn adding? Until she has mastered basic addition using manipulatives, she will not be ready to use the more abstract number line. Does she know how to add?

Maybe with the number line, have her put manipulatives (ie pennies) above the first five 5, count three more and put pennies above, and then have her start counting from one up to five and then keep going to count them all. Make the connection that the numbers represent the objects. This will make it more concrete for her. Later on (say in a few weeks?), you can have her say 5 and then count on but for now, she needs to grasp basic addition before she can go on to the next level.

Is this a state standard where you are? Are the two of you on the same page as far as what/how this is being taught? It sounds as though your daughter is confused... maybe you could have the teacher demonstrate to you again with your daughter present.

Good luck... do remember that this too will pass.

I work in 1st grade as an aide. The little boy who I work with has special needs. He does what your daughter does. Start on 5, count 3 more (1, 2, 3) and then he sees where he lands. Does that make sense? For him, counting 5 then 6,7,8 would make no sense to him (ie. where is that 3 idea?) He understands the concept. (One day he had 3 books in his basket. They are allowed 5. I asked him how many more he could get and he said 2 without hesitation! Big moment for us!) If she is using the line, where is the problem? Doesn't she end up on 8? Or does the school requires the counting the way you explained?

I agree with Cuthie. Make sure she gets the idea first. For me, it's interesting. My little guy gets distracted my manipulatives. The line works perfect for him and he does get the idea. Each child is different. Good luck!

My first grader learned this as a kindergartner - but the concept they used was find the number and add three - put three dots after the number and then that is your product. Hope that helps!

I was going to say pretty much everything that Cuthie said. The number line is a slightly more abstract tool. . .you have to be sure she understands that. I would do just like Cuthie suggested. . .combine the manipulatives with the number line so that she understands the concept of the number line. And of course. . .I would use M&Ms.

ETA: I don't see her counting 1. . .2. . .3 from 5 as a problem. It really is a two step process. Say you are adding 9 to 5. If you don't know the answer is 14 you would need to count from 1 after the five to know where to stop. Make sense? She can then go back and count from 5 as 6. . .7. . 8 . .etc. You see if she doesn't know that 5+3=8, then if she doesn't count from 1 up to 3 to land on 8, if she is counting 6. . .7. . .8, she is really counting to 3 in her head. Does that make sense? Anywhoo. . .she will get it. . .just keep working with it, but keep the focus on the concept because that's what counts. I would also suggest board games where you have to roll and move along the board. . .like Sorry. It might help her with that counting in her head as she moves along the number line.

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Except that a product is the result of multiplication, not addition.

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It is extremely important with very young children that you use the same terminology as the teachers use if you are trying to teach or reinforce a skill at home ... counting on, number line, etc.

For subtraction, it is called 'counting up'. Is her class getting into subtraction because this might also be adding to her confusion. Bless her heart.

Cheerios are another option.

Hi Everyone,
Thanks for all the input. Let me see if I can add some more details to this.

She can count, add, subtract. She's been going to school since she was
4 yo.(Pre-K ). She is a very bright little girl and is or should I say was the top 4 in her class till Dec when they started using the math counting line.
The line looks like this.

---1---2---3---4---5---6---7---8---9---10. Example of the math problem

If you had 5 apples and sally gave you 4 more how many would you have ?.

Ok she has to start with the # 5 and count 4 more ending at 9, But she starts with the #5 and when she adds the 4 other apples she goes back to the #1 and counts till she gets to 4. in other words she starts all over . But, if the problem read as this she will get it right every single time

5
+ 4 0r 5 + 4 = 9
------
9

But when it comes to using that math line she just gets so confuse, she said she HAS to start with 1 and go to the 4 . We have tried everything under the sun to explain to her , no you start at 5 and count 4 more over till you get to 9.
She just doesn't understand this. for the life of her she cant understand why she counts from 5 till she gets to the 9. If she holds 5 fingers up she can add 4 from her other hand and she stops at 9. if she draws out 5 lines and adds 4 more to it she gets to the 9 and stops.

I'm not for sure WHY she has to use a number line all we have been told is this is part of her exams and final grade. From what I was told on the test it will show the problem and she has to circle numbers till she reaches the answer. There's going to be 20 problems like this on the final exam. This will count for 70% of her grade. There's no way she will pass the exam if we can't get her to understand the math line by the 1st week in April.

There's no way I want her to have to take a math course over next year all because of this line when she KNOWS how to add, subtract and count. Seems so silly to even use a line to me if a child knows how to do adding w/o using one.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone. I like the using a game board to see if that helps. If all fails I don't know how I'm going to handle bringing up she doesn't need special services for just a math line. Poor baby she feels dumb and she cries when she cant seem to get the answer right.

I'm 37 years old and I NEVER heard of a number line until this thread!

I learned how to add/subtract in kindergarten and we never used a number line, we just used objects and pictures of things to get the idea.

I can see how she'd be confused. I'd try adding actual object such as cheerios or m&m's to the line to see if that helps her get it.

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Ahhh. . .poor girl. I see what you are saying now. She needs to get the concept of the number line as a continuum. I think the board game might help. Be sure to point out to her that you don't go back to the start everytime. . .you keep going from where you are at. . .just like the number line. Another thing that might help. . .lay out two number lines. Let her count up to 5 then lay the 2nd line starting with the 1 under the 5. This way she can count out the 4 starting from the 1, but then see that if you start at 5 and add the 4 more you will be at 9 on the upper line. Just see if that helps her get that concept. . .if it seems it is confusing her more just stop.

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- George Orwell Animal Farm

Try having her put her left index finger on the number 5 (and she must not lift her finger for the next part) . Then have her take her right index finger and touch the next 4 numbers counting out loud "1,2,3,4". Then have her say what number on the line she ended up on with her right index finger.
I feel her pain.

If she thinks she has to start at 1, then why not let her. Let her start at one, count up to 5. Then count 4 more?

Have her start at five, then put a cheerio on each additional number that she is to add. Whatever number she ends up on, is the answer. Then, show her how to "count on" from 5- 6,7,8,9

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Music is what feelings sound like._ ~Author Unknown

Thanks everyone ! I'm going to use M&M's for the 2nd part of the math problem.. I'm feeling pretty good about she'll "get it" by picking up the candy and counting 5,6,7,8,9 so on and so on.This to me, wouldn't be such a big deal if it wasn't for she has to circle the numbers on the line from the start to ending results. I still don't know why she even has to use the line but thats how the school board says it needs to be done. I know for a fact in K and even in Pre K they didn't do this and I also feel this is why she is having trouble with it. After 2 years of counting objects, fingers and drawing lines this was tossed in back in Dec. totally threw her off.. Since on the test she has to circle the 1st number till she reaches the answer she has to do it right and there's no other way to do it but by using this line.. Again HUGE thanks everyone. I'm feeling good about the M& M's.

cajmom :: There will only be 1 math line on the test and if she doesn't circle the 1st number till she reaches the answer she will fail that problem.
The test is 70% of her final Math grade. If she doesn't pass the test she will have to have special services in Math in the 2nd grade. I don't think she needs this as she knows how to add, subtract ,count. It's just not by using a math line like the school wants.
Example 5+4 = 9 1--2--3--4--5--6--7--8--9
She has to start on the number 5 and circle 5,6,7,8,9.

Oh okay. I guess I didn't understand before, sorry. I can't believe that they make everyone do that and if you don't get it, then you fail. I think I would talk to the Board of Education or someone higher up. If she knows how to add/subtract, then why do they make them do it this way and confuse them.

I have a kindergartner and a 3rd grader and I don't think we use the 'number line' concept in our school, at least it's not mandatory.

Honestly, if it were my child, I would first find out if they understood the concept of adding -- i.e., they could get the correct answer. In my book, 4 apples + 3 apples = 7 apples no matter if they counted on the number line, their fingers, M&Ms, memorized the answer, etc. Why does it matter how they got there for something like that. It's not like the concept to get the answer is the basis for learning other things. If the child understood the concept of adding, I would take the 'C' in math and move on. It's quite possible that they will never use this concept again in school so not knowing it will not hurt your DD. Of course, everyone wants their child to be a straight-A student, but honestly is it worth if it's causing so much frustration and tears. Now if the child didn't understand the whole process of adding, then that is a different story and something that you need to work ok, but it sounds like your daughter understands how to add, but just can't grasp the 'number line' concept.

My kids school drives me nuts -- they will push some abstract concept hard and make the kids learn it and then in the next grade they either won't allow the kids to use it or don't teach it anymore. It makes no sense to me, but it happens year after year.

Sarah........

sarsah,
The problem isn't with her getting a C , but with this being on the exam for her FINAL grade in 1st grade as I have already stated in another post. This will count for 70% of her final grade. If she doesn't understand how to circle the begging number till the final answer on the math line she will fail that problem. There will be 20 questions using this math line on the test.

I can't see her having to retake this over again in the 2nd grade, which I/ and all the parents of 1st graders have already received a letter telling us if ANYONE fails the math part of the final exams ( the main 2 parts of the exam is Math and Reading ) they will be placed in a study hall next year. I dont think she needs the study hall course all because she can't understand the line. I have 3 other children ahead of her and this is the 1st time any of us have seen this math line. I have a 2nd grader, 4 th grader and 7th grader. my 2nd grader has never used this and none of the other kids have even seen this before now. So this has to be something new from the school board or whom ever wanted it used this year. My main concern is not her being a straight A student as she is a very bright little girl, but making sure she understands how it's suppose to be used when she takes her exam to pass to 2nd grade.

Have you had a conference with both the teacher and your daughter at the same time? Maybe you can have the teacher explain to your daughter how she wants her to do it while you are there. Or maybe get with another teacher and see if she can explain it to your daughter. Sometimes a teacher only explains it one way, and not multiple ways but maybe another teacher can help both of you.

Some of my first graders can only do their math problems using a number line but they are not allowed to use it on a test unless it has been written into a IEP. We don't test the use of a numberline. I would definately get the state/school standards to see if this is absolutely mandatory.

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How about trying this (I used this strategy a couple years ago with a student and it worked for her):

with your example 5+4=9, put your left hand just to the left of the number 5 (this covers up the first four numbers). Tell her that you're starting at the 5, so you don't need to worry about the numbers before it for this problem. Place your right index finger on the number 5, then simply count up 4 (1,2,3,4) and show her that you get to 9. I've also done it this way, but instead of just counting up 4, I've used four manipulatives and placed them above the number line at the 6,7,8, and 9.

I know this is very similar to some other responses, but it seemed to really help my student to put her hand over the numbers "that she didn't need to worry about", and focus on the numbers to the right.

HTH

How is she doing by now?

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