Now the grandchildren are starting to come......


Another Duggar On the Way! - Babies : People.com

Amazing...

__________________
Be careful what you wish for.....

I just saw their wedding on cable last week or something....I knew it was a repeat didn't think it was *that* long ago. Starting right away...I wish them luck

__________________
Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

Can you imagine a family get-together in about 10 years?
There will be more kids and babies than they'll be able to count!

__________________
Square dancing is friendship set to music!

I would hate to have Santa's bill at the end of Christmas season...especially in 10 years after more of the kids have their own kids! YIKES

__________________
Proud to say I haven't shopped at a Wal-Mart since Sept 2003

Well lets see if all 18 Duggar children have 18 kids or more of their own, Michelle and Jim Bob will have 324 grandchildren yikes???... My mom has 8 and has a hard time keeping up with them. Again life is all about choices, personally their ways are not for me on many levels. I just personally feel they are so young and perhaps should have had some more time as newlyweds before taking on the demands of having and raising a family. Also I have always wondered and feel that Michelle Duggar is unique because to be able to be pregnant so many times and to have given birth so many times, personally I could never imagine and I am not sure many women could do what she has accomplished... Only time will tell, either way I to wish they healthy wishes... Peace. Catherine

That's cool!

Thanks for posting I saw a comercial for the morning show with a teaser,,

they said " They couln't could they?" and I thought it was number 19!! ( Double YIKES LOL.)

My mom and I actually discussed the Duggars this weekend.
I was telling her that a friend of mine just found out that she can not have children. And how my friend was upset by this. My mom talked about how once the initial shock and hurt and anger wore off my friend might want to think about adoption.

My mother then went on to say that people like the Duggars annoyed her: How if the Duggars truly loved children then they should have opened their home up to children who needed adopted or were in foster care. And then my mom said that she thought the Duggars were extremely greedy and self-serving. And you know what? I agree.

I don't think this family is "neat" or "cool" or anything of the sort. And if it were just about the love of family then they certainly wouldn't be "pimping out" their family to the highest bidder for television shows.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Like I said before life is all about choices. What is good for someone else may not be fine with someone else. Personally speaking not for me never ever could I ever imagine having such a large family...The biggest issues I have with the Duggar family are that they their children have no life outside of that home. No one single child has ever played on a sports team. Perhaps I am wrong but I am sure so many of us here have or will at one time have had our children participate in some sort of sports out of the home activity. There is no way one single mom or dad or both could attend all those practices and games imagine that???. Again perhaps some of their children have no interest but not one single one???. I also will say sometimes we as a family spend too much time away from our families. But I also feel there must be some balance. You can do some activities just not too crazy. The other issue is that the older children must care for the younger ones, again to me yes they should have chores, yes they should help, but to what point???. They are only little and children once and for Michelle and JimBob to have that many children and no outside help they must rely on their older children to help . Again in the end its all about choices. On a final note I worry about Michelle's health and also as her age progress's her chances of having a difficult pregnancy and the health and well being of both her and her unborn child increase each time.. I have say she truly has been blessed that way.. Personal question here concerning the next oldest son is it just me I never seen this boy talk of all the kids he is the one who seems so quiet and I wonder about him sometimes perhaps I am wrong, just asking if anyone else noticed this ... Peace. Catherine

I think this will soon be a nation of Duggars. They'll push the rest of us off the coastlines.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I think the 2nd oldest son is on the autism spectrum. Or that is what i have read anyways. I have been watching their tv series, and while they do things out there I dont think they really bother anybody. There was this family from TN on there now they were bizzare.

steph

__________________
IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/my2cuties/diabetes_1.gif[/IMG]

Thanks for the link to the article. If I were Anna, I think I would be pretty po'ed at the way Joshua revealed her pregnancy to her in front of the whole family. I think I would want that to be more personal-especially w/ the first one.

Well if my math is correct she conceived about 4 months after the wedding - at least they will have had a year as a couple before baby comes.

That's just silly. So now if someone wants to have a really big family that they can afford and not use the system to take care of they should adopt instead??? What kind of logic is that? Where is the cut off point Marilynk? 3 biological children and then you have to adopt or foster? Or 5 bio? Who are you to judge them? Do you watch all their shows? Do you understand their lifestyle and their religious beliefs? Do you like Jon and Kate? Are they ok? The Duggars aren't all over the place "pimping" their family.

I probably understand more than you know.
Don't watch Jon and Kate--what little I have seen and read, they are exploiting their children and it's not for the better.

Oh yeah, the Duggars aren't exploiting anything. Hence why they keep showing up on TV. If the publicity is not important then why did they announce the new pregnancy on the Today show?? Hmmmmm.....
Her pregnancy probably could have just passed pretty unnoticed.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I can't stand Jon and Kate. She drives me NUTS. The Duggars on the other hand are quite different. I don't see them as exploiting their family-I see it as sharing their story. (Kate may be an exploiter though!) The Duggar kid all seem well adjusted and happy. I am interested in following their family story and what their children do as they enter adulthood. I find it fascinating to see how they do everything-from schooling, to feeding the family, etc... Had they changed their lifestyle, etc... from the publicity would make me see things differenly. So far, so good though!

I think the Duggars have deeply held religious convictions and probably see the venues they have been given as an 'opportunity' to show the world the virtues and positive side of living life the way they do it.

It's really no different than any other 'cause' out there. Their religious beliefs are the reason they are newsworthy because those beliefs have led them to have all those kids. I think they would have just as many kids even if they weren't in the public eye because it is what they believe in.

If you ran an rescue shelter for abandoned animals and Animal Planet wanted to feature you in a series, you'd be delighted and wouldn't feel you were 'pimping out the animals.' You'd see it as an opportunity to help the world understand your beliefs, see the positive things that come of them, and embrace the chance to get the message out.

There is a demographic that really admires and finds encouragement from witnessing what they do. It can't be an easy way to live, but it's pretty obvious to me that she is doing it out of a sense of duty to God. I don't agree with her assessment of what God expects from us... but admire her tenacity and willingness to 'be weird' in the eyes of the world because God's opinion of her is more important than man's.

I can totally understand your mom feeling that way, but there are some people who just cant open their hearts to other peoples children.

I myself could adopt in a heartbeat. I love children! Doesnt matter to me what color or race they are. I love them, but my hubby on the other hand... He doesnt want to "raise other peoples children". I have asked him many times over the years and adoption is just not for him. Never has been. He loves and adores his own children but I can see he just doesnt favor other children. I will never understand it but thats how he is. I see others are the same way. On the flipside there are others who care more about someone elses child than their own!

No I will never understand it...

__________________
Paula
Some days are diamonds Some days are stone

http://paulajc.mycoupons.com/

so, one can look at this a couple of ways:
You are comparing raising children and a family to charity work.
OR....
You are in agreement that these people are seeking out publicity.

OR....your comparison sucks and doesn't compare to like situations.

I don't know whether the Duggars would have continued having children after #13 (I think that's where they were), when the spotlight was shone upon them.
I do think that these people have deep religious convictions that drive them. Much like the Fundamentalist LDS. Both have very deep beliefs and can support their beliefs w/ Biblical references. So, why don't we compare Quiverful vs. FLDS. That's a more equal comparison than someone who volunteers to care for animals vs. a lady who has chosen to repopulate the Earth.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I'm sure many feel this family should adopt/foster and that it isn't 'fair' ok, but that judgement could be made of any birth mom. Should all of us who gave birth not have done so, because surely there were other children awaiting a foster parent or an adoption?

The children I worry about are the millions whose parents may have had just 1 or 2 (or uh maybe 14) but won't/don't take care of them...those are the selfish/greedy parents in my book.

The Duggars having 18 children indeed, seems crazy to me but if those children are healthy and happy, cared for and supported by the parents I think they will turn out just fine. I guess time will tell!

marilyn, I don't know if you are purposely missing the point or if you have just never had something you are deeply convicted about that you just feel like the world - or at least some in the world - would embrace if they just understood it.

They do what they do because they believe in the deepest depths of who they are that that is what people are *supposed* to do... and while I have never heard them say anything critical about non-QF people (though I admit I haven't watched all that much of them!), my gut tells me that they think it is sinful to try to subvert the joining of egg and sperm.

They believe God exists, that he's not just an 'opinion' but that he truly created the earth, that he truly has a plan for mankind and that they have a responsibility to do what they can to help shine the light on that plan for others.

An analogy...

Say you are on a ship, and the captain knows it is sinking. The captain tells you to tell all the other passengers that there are lifeboats waiting for them on the upper deck, and that they need to follow your lead and get on life preservers and get in a lifeboat. You see the concern on his face and know how important to him it is for as many of them to be saved as possibly can be, and you take his call as a personal mission to help as many as possibly will see it that the ship is not long for sailing.

You'd feel urgency and you'd do whatever you could - shout it from the stairwells, blast it over the loud speaker - WHATEVER you thought would draw people to the critical message that you knew to be true.

I think that's how the Duggars internalize their responsibilities to God and to mankind. My gut tells me that they get a LOT of mail from the masses... some of it very critical, but some of it very heartening to them. They probably get letters from families who, as a result of seeing them on tv, investigated QF and came to share that belief with them.

To them... getting such a letter would be akin to having a fellow passenger grab a life jacket and head for the lifeboat. They probably take immense joy in the notion that they are letting God use them to help others turn away from something they believe to be sinful.

Like I said before... I don't agree with their interpretation of the Bible on this subject, but I know far too many people who are just like them (minus a few children - but not many!) who are as sincere as the day is long. They may not be your cup of tea, but as you like to say... just because they don't share YOUR opinion doesn't make them WRONG.

They have a whole lot better family foundation than the money grubber in california living off welfare and spent all that money on IVF lthen wow it totally "suprised" her after they born oh goodness how am I going to feed what is it 14 kids? She's the type that totally annoy me, not the Duggars

__________________
Books just wanna be FREE! See what I mean at:
http://bookcrossing.com

My other favorites
www.paperbackswap.com
www.wheresgeorge.com
www.geocaching.com

again, I understand far more than a lot of people give me credit for.

I don't know if the Duggars, or even the FLDS for that matter are wrong. I will however say this: Jim Jones, David Koresh, --they all thought that if the world could just see, just understand, then they could save the world. Religious fanatics (regardless of what religion it may be) concern me! I see these people as fanatics--and would think so whether they had 14 kids, or hoarded cats, or collected tea cups, all in the name of religion. Now, granted, by and large this type of fanaticism is harmless. And what they do or don't do doesn't adversely or positively effect me--so why should I care. I guess I don't really. But, I do have an opinion.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

You calling it fanaticism doesn't make it fanaticism. They have a strongly held belief about an aspect of their lives. They aren't forcing anyone to join them in it. They aren't trying to shove it down anyone's throats. There is no KoolAid here. They are just living out their PERSONAL convictions... convictions that are not in line with mainstream American society... but are probably in line with much of the world, or perhaps at least with much of the world in a historical (if not modern day) context.

I think you do care. You sure have posted enough. They don't seem "fanatical". They seem quite happy and pretty normal. Just not what society expects these days. Why bring in Jim Jones, etc... That's really, really reaching. And please answer my question-how many kids is a person supposed to have before they should adopt/foster?????? There brood is well taken care of, happy, etc... Who are you to judge? And you are-you don't call them fanatics and bring up Jim Jones if you weren't judging. By the way, they are going to be on Larry King in a few minutes. I'll watch and see if they are preaching Armegedon and drinking Kool-aid!!!

Thank you for giving me sooo much credit, but I did not define fanatic/fanaticism.
dictionary.com provides this as the definition:
fa⋅nat⋅ic   /fəˈnætɪk/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [fuh-nat-ik] Show IPA
–noun 1. a person with an extreme and uncritical enthusiasm or zeal, as in religion or politics.

And I'll say this: a lot of cults started out innocently enough, but some how, somewhere the innocence turned frightening. Call me cynical and jaded--I see where the Duggars and the Quiverful "way of life" could turn negative. I'm sorry if my thoughts on the subject matter bother you--but my opinion is what it is. I don't know if the Duggars are "wrong".
They may not be. I very well could be wrong. It doesn't alter the fact that even when people are correct in their beliefs and thoughts---those beliefs and thoughts can be corrupted by the wrong influences. *shrugs* Whatever.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I looked at dictionary.com myself. The definitions found there seem to reference the fact that for a fanatic, their belief is apt to be 'uncritical' or 'unreasoned.' That is where I think the Duggars fall short of that label. When they married they didn't hold this belief, but over time, through personal study, they came to the conclusion that the ideas about birth control that they had been raised to believe were true were in contradiction with the Bible. There is an example of 'semen spilling' in the Bible as an attempt to prevent pregnancy... and it's not looked on with favor. There are statements about children being blessings. There are examples of families (like Jacob's) in which there were 13 kids. There is the command given to "go forth and multiply".

Personally, I don't think those things point to needing to adopt the QF philosophy... but I can see where a reasonable person might draw that conclusion.

You still didn't answer at what point they should have stopped having children and started adopting!!!!!! You did state that earlier.
Also, fanatic usually, but not always, has a negative conotation.
From Urban Dictionary: religious fanatic
Someone who takes a perfectly good creed and assumes that because they pretend to follow it, they are allowed to do anything they want even if they don't really follow the creed at all. Usually insisting that if others do not follow their ways, they will be damned.

During the middle ages, Christian religious fanatics entered the Middle East to aide the Bysantine Empire, and were often slaughtered.

Today, religious fanatics in Iraq bombed the US embassy. Four were killed, five-hundred twelve were wounded.


Please do answer my question. I'm really curious.

REGARDLESS to why she had as many kids as she did, do not even tell me that there is not at least ONE child who is not getting as much care and attention as the others.... SOMEONE gets left out...

__________________
Be careful what you wish for.....

Since being that Michelle home schools all the children, plus being a mom to 18 plus cleaning house and just the basic day to day activities that go on in a normal household be it hers or mine. There is no way one single mom or dad or even both could possibly have the time to give individual time to each child. This is what I have written before concerning my personal views on having so many children. Yes on so many levels from what I can gather from the shows because I have watched them alot, all seems to run smooth. I am wondering has anyone have seen any of those children or the parents speak of college or career motives besides just getting married and having as many children as their parents do. I truly know that their religious convictions play a huge major role in the way they live their lifestyle. But again I can have my views and so can others here, but ultimately the bottom line comes down to them, because they have to live it. Without getting way off topic someone else mentioned the Jon and Kate plus 8, now that show I am sorry those little children have had their personal lives viewed for the public eye way too much and I sincerely hope no damage has been done. Who knows Michelle Duggar appears very calm all the time while Kate is mostly emotionally and physically exhausted by having 8 kids. Oh well I guess again in the end who are we to judge, we may speak our views and thats it... Peace. Catherine

I hate to say it, but I think "one-on-one" time is really overrated in the "necessary" department. I got a lot of one-on-one time as a child and my husband (who is one of 15 children) got virtually none. He reflects on his childhood very positively. He learned the lessons he needed to, he felt valued, and he experienced great companionship and lots of fun times with his siblings.

His parents were not QF's. They just both wanted a great big family when they got married (and came from a part of the country where big farm families were the norm). The kids from his family have great organizational skills and are very much 'team players' when it comes to working with others. I really can't speak highly enough of them. 95% of them are successful at what they have chosen to do. None of them went on to have huge families themselves, but for the most part they all think they benefited from their childhood family situation. Sure, there are some things they wish had been different.... but I can say the same thing and I'm one of two.

I agree. I never really thought about it until I saw your post. I believe the child is "John", the kid who was driving the tractor/backhoe thing during the "Ice Storm" episode, right??

The Duggars are my guilty pleasure. They are amazing. And fascinating. All at the same time. I don't necessarily agree with what they are doing, but they seem happy doing it. And the children seem taken care of.

A question to all of you though :

A lot of you don't believe in the Duggars letting God choose the amount of children in their family. What are your views on getting medical help for having children - the opposite of the Duggars - like by having IVF and such? Do you believe in conceiving un-naturally?

Because I honestly don't agree in the whole IVF and such. Maybe because I had no trouble naturally conceiving my son. But when people are having multiples because of a medical procedure (think : John & Kate) - ESPECIALLY when they already have a child - it gets on my nerves. Why not be happy with what you already have?? Especially if you can only have a child through medical intervention.

Just a thought. (BTW - after I had my son - even before he was born - DH and I had decided to have just one child. DH was in his mid-20's when he had a Vasectomy. We almost had to go through counseling to get it done also, due to his age.)

__________________
"Yesterday my life was duller, now everything's technicolor!"

as far as IVF goes... I see both sides, I see going thru it if you are unable to conceive on your own. However once you have twins or triplets, thats when i dont understand having more. I dont know if they want to have 5 or 6 at one time or what?

And then again I sometimes think there are SOME people out there that werent meant to have kids and IVF makes it to where they can have kids even though they may not be able to handle them. I know of this one couple who was jealous every time one of their friends/relatives would have a baby. they went the IVF route and figured out what every parent knows having kids looks fun on the other side...lol. Now they say there was probably a reason they couldnt have kids the natural way. But now they have the child and are raising the child just fine but they said they see why SOME people have trouble conceiving bc maybe they werent meant to be parents.

but i have no problem with people using IVF to get pregnant.

steph

__________________
IMG]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v487/my2cuties/diabetes_1.gif[/IMG]

Gotta disagree as I have seen big families first hand. My cousins lived a block away - 13 kids in all. They all turned out fine, except one with a drinking problem. They are all very close. Their dad died in his late 40's so they just had mom and siblings for the younger ones. I'm also very close friends with a family with 9 kids and they are awesome. I don't have one negative thing to say about them and I've know them for over 8 years now. When I first met them they had 6 kids and I thought to myself "why would they want anymore" but have since changed to "oh boy, she's pregnant again"! But I think you have to actually interact with these big families to witness the dynamics. If they are homeschooling they have tons of interactions with their parents-lots more than if the kids were in public school all day or daycare. I didn't used to understand why on earth anyone would want a big family but I get it now.

I have to agree with you, Kathy. My Grandma had 13 children. I think people seem to forget that before birth control it wasn't unusual for families to be much bigger than what we consider "normal" nowadays. Growing up I knew several families that had 8-10 kids. I think some of the most miserable people I've known were only children. My nephew is an only child and he is sooo incredibly self-centered and just doesn't have good social skills when it comes to compromising and sharing. Just my two cents.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I do wish Marilynk would tell us how many is too many though!

I think it all boils down to parenting skills, kids temperments, etc... Good examples hambirg. The Duggars seem capable and the kids seem well adjusted. Compare them to the Ozbournes!!! lol

*sigh*
if all a person wants to do is love children, then they should be able to love any child--regardless of whether the child is biologically theirs or not. So, the simple answer would be, in some cases none, zero, zilch, nada. But as you know, the devil is in the details.

Don't worry, my irritation w/ some people spreads further than the Duggars. I have issue with people who go outside the country to adopt. I have issue w/ people who espouse anti-abortion rhetoric while children remain in foster care, are born addicted to drugs or are abandoned at birth. Doesn't mean I hate them. I just don't agree with them.

I think the Duggars would do a much better service, and be more Christlike if they opened their home to children who don't have a family; instead they continue their mission of "going forth and multiplying". *shrugs*
And it doesn't really matter what you or I think or feel---it isn't going to change anything. Furthermore, it wouldn't matter what I said, you'd still take umbrage with something I said...so there it is. Have at it.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Great point, kathy.

There is a blog I frequently read, not because I like it, but because it's like a train wreck I just can't get my eyes off of. It's on Xanga and the blogger is named "Anna". She's a narcissistic nag who does little but bash her husband, threaten to leave him, decides she wants another child, gets herself pregnant (yet again this week!), and then pitches a fit at him for being concerned that his shop might close down (leaving him to feed a family of seven on no income in the state of Michigan of all places) and says he has no faith because the Lord told her they should mate the day the baby was conceived.

Seriously - I think the Duggars pale in comparison to that gal when it comes to 'fanatic.' Her kids are going to be so messed up.

That's awful. Poor kids. Good thing I don't read that blog-it would drive me nuts!

ya thats what I say too!

__________________
~*~Live life to the fullest*~*

How do I find this blog, wowitsdark? I would love to read someone elses trainwreck of a life. If she's in Michigan it would somehow make it more interesting!!

I have no problem with the Duggars. I know ppl like them, just less kids. I think they are doing a fabulous job raising some wonderful kids that will benefit society I'm sure. Can you imagine the impact that many well raised adults can have on society?! Awesome. I know there are so many needy kids, but why put on the Duggars the responsibility of taking on other ppl's children? Why not hold the parents of those children responsible? They are making good choices, so why should anyone care how many kids they have?? We let loser parents off the hook too easily.

__________________
Melissa

Awesome points!

That's a lot of issues, marilynk!!! Just kidding and All in fun!! Wouldn't it be a blast to be queen for a day?!

__________________
I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I KNOW I have issues....and I'm trying to work on them. As opposed to people who don't think they have issues.

and yes, if I could be empirical ruler for the day--there would be some changes!

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Moi aussi.

My name is CJ, and I am an issue-aholic.

__________________
I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

If nothing else, the Duggers are self-sufficent. As far as I have heard, they receive no assistance (government or otherwise). They live within their means and make it work for their family. The way they choose to live their life is not for me and I don't agree with a lot of what they are doing, but that is just my opinion. They are free to do what they want.

I personally find John & Kate (J&K+8) annoying and I think they are somewhat exploiting their children. However, I'm sure they need the money and producs (Hasbro, Gymboree, V-tech, etc.) they receive from the show to live on. In a way, they were smart to do the show because of the income it brings. I know how much it costs to raise 2 children, I can hardly image 8.

I've not had a lot of time to visit here for the last week, so now I'm playing catch-up. After reading most of the posts here, I have to admit that you have hit the nail on the head with your assessment of the crazy Duggars. I don't always agree with you but I do on this subject. That woman should have put a cork in it a long time ago. I'm amazed her uterus is not hanging down around her knees. People used to have large families for a number of reasons. Many children died, they needed the hands to help run things, they didn't know how to not have them, etc. These are no longer valid excuses for breeding like rabbits.

I hope you aren't serious. Put a cork in it?????? Breed like rabbits?? What happened to choice????? They are not sponging off the govt so who are you to judge?

I'm pretty sure we all seen that coming....

Oh kathy, kathy, kathy! CHOICE? Really, you want to go there?

Choice is all that some people ask for when it comes to fertility and their bodies. However, conservatives want to squelch the ability to choose.
You just can't preach "choice" in this instance. And if you do, then you need to accept that if people have the choice to have 18 kids, then they should also have the choice to have an abortion. And if you don't you are being hypocritical.

See, I don't agree with the Duggars. I think that they are squirrel poop crazy. I think they are fanatics. But, I realize that this is their choice and don't think I have a right to picket across from their house or place of business w/ a sign screaming for sterilization of Mrs. Duggar. I wouldn't even began to try and change and/or enact laws which mandated a cut-off point of how many kids a woman could have. It's not my business in the grand scheme of things. However, I can voice my opinion when the subject is brought up. I would never, ever, EVER want to take a way a woman's right to choose what was best for her and her body.
You have a nice day. Yeah, I said you could be a hypocrit. That's not a "personal" attack, so don't start whining about that. It's an if/then statement. If you fit category A, THEN you are in class A. But, I anticipate that you will start whining and crying about board rules, personal attacks and such to all who will listen and when that doesn't work, you'll alert a mod and demand this be removed.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"