You've stated here that you didn't want your children around homosexuals because their lifestyle was against your beliefs. The Catholic church also considers birth control to be a grave sin and abomination. Did you also keep your children away from people who practiced birth control because it was against your beliefs?

Dang, where's my popcorn?

Good question. Can't wait to hear the answer.

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Reading is Fundamental.

*hands truble some popcorn* You got some soda?

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

Better get the Red Bull. Could be a long night!

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Reading is Fundamental.

I can't wait to hear the answer to this one.

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I've never lied to you. I've always told you some version the of truth.

I think y'all are blowing kathy's views out of proportion. I believe she said that she wouldn't have had her children hanging out with people openly and visibly practicing a lifestyle that was against her beliefs.....like maybe not sending her kids over to the house with two mommies. That would give the impression to her child that she endorses the behavior.

On the other hand, the sort of birth control that one uses is typically not visible to the average bystander or visitor in one's home. (I hope )

I guess I don't see the contradiction in views that you are looking for. But I'm not Kathy, and probably shouldn't speak for her.....oops.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I think it's safe to assume that most married couples with only one or two kids are openly and visibly practicing a lifestyle against the word of the Catholic Church -- i.e., using birth control.

Horrors!

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Reading is Fundamental.

It's not clear to me that a young child would make that connection.

I'm not going to fight with you on this, truble. I've seen enough of you to know that's not something I want to get into. Besides, these aren't my views anyways. Go ahead and look forward to another bashing session though - that's your perogative.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I'm not Catholic, but......

there are MANY people who suffer from infertility, which keeps them from having kids. I speak from experience. We've ONLY used "birth control" a TOTAL of 9 months in our whole marriage of 12 1/2 years.

__________________
Amy
Mom to Lauren, Eryn, Naysa
and announcing......
Gavin Michael Chase, 9 lbs 10 ozs
and 21 3/4 inches long on 10/13/09!

But birth control is against Catholic Doctrine so I would expect that it would be the same as homosexuality since sin is sin.

I used birth control for two months when we first got married, got pregnant with my son while using birth control and then had secondary infertility for the rest of my childbearing years. With lots of money and medical intervention, we had three more children but not without heartache and lots of trying.

The people who post here to tell everyone what is Catholic Doctrine, have you ever used birth control? I realize it is a private decision but just curious. I do not expect the truth out of some posters but I guess the hypocrisy would be too much.


Please, if Kathy decides to balls up and answer the question, please hand me some popcorn as well. It could shape up to be great debate full of sarcasm, tests, jokes and outright craziness.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

God knows that KTS is not on my Christmas card list (nor am I on hers....)

But, why oh why is it necessary to call someone out and INTENTIONALLY start crap?
While I disagree with KTS in her opinions, views and beliefs---it doesn't matter how she answers on this one, she's going to be skewered by others.

I don't think it's a legitimate question: There's a huge difference between an openly gay individual (or couple), and a couple who may or may not be practicing birth control. And correct me if I"m wrong, but I believe the Catholic church does "allow" natural birth control. So, that could explain "only 2 kids".

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

LOL. Red Bull it is!

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"When you're drowning, you don't say 'I would be incredibly pleased if someone would have the foresight to notice me drowning and come and help me,' you just scream."

John Lennon

I almost never agree with KTS and sometimes find marilynk abrasive, but I agree with her on this one. What's the point in calling out KTS for a bullying session?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Yeah, I thought this was settled in the last thread.

The only reason for this is to start an argument or berate one poster, which I admit can have it's appeal, but it's been done to death and the poster has answered these questions. As much as many of us may disagree with her views, she's entitled to them and shouldn't have to explain/defend them on a constant basis. It one thing for her to jump into a thread and choose to be picked apart, it's another when people keep calling her out.

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

I personally agree with some others here, while I know how I feel about all this stuff, it truly is not the time to start another thread. For starters tomorrow is mothers day . Secondly while i do not agree with KTS views I have decided to respect them as she would do for me. In the end I know they are different but in the end I also know KTS is a good honest person. Peace to all. Catherine

It's obviously much more fun to brow beat a poster than discuss actual issues??? Just saying.........

I am really surprised (or maybe not??) at some of the posters taking delight in this. I'm glad Kathy hasn't replied, and hope she doesn't.

Take the high road KTS.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I mearly asked her a question and am waiting for her honest reply. There is nothing in my question that is berating her. I am just curious to know in her opinion, since she is the one who has posted Catholic doctrine on these message boards, if she thinks that people who practice "artificial birth control" (anything except natural family planning) are also sinning, since Catholic doctrine considers birth control a grave sin.

3 words:

apathy,
tolerance,
diversity.

I believe that because she is so strident in her beliefs that she is right, it would follow that any question that anyone would have about the Catholic faith, she would be the foremost expert on it.

I don't believe that she explained herself in the thread about how she keeps her children away from things that will pollute their minds and souls or whatever. It stands to reason that if you are using Catholic "Doctrine" to explain your bigotry towards another group of people, you should use that towards another Doctrine of Catholicism, one which is more dangerous, it would seem in her opinion......Does she keep her kids away from people who have had an abortion? Or use birth control? Or do not go to mass each week, or do not share in all the sacraments?

I would hope so. Instead of picking what you want to out of Catholic Doctrine to heed to protect your children from, you would protect your children from all the "sins".

I believe the OP is asking if she is choosing to cover her homophobia with Catholic Doctrine. It would seem so if she hangs with people who practice Birth Control or people who have had an abortion or people who are practicing pre maritial sex.

It is a fair question. The reason people are interested in her reply is evident.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Yes, it definitely is.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

KTS is the one who brought her religion onto the board and used it to justify a policy of intolerance. The question is simply whether she applies her Catholic beliefs across the board or is she a "cafeteria Catholic"? No one but KTS brought her religion into this -- she made it a topic of discussion. How it is unfair or berating to ask her whether she applies those beliefs consistently? Should be an easy question, actually.

As for the issue of infertility -- that's why I said most couples. Most, not all. Obviously I understand that some family are unable to have children, but it seems unlikely that infertility is really the reason people stop after three or four kids.

Catherine, I have no idea what on earth Mother's Day has to do with any of this.

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Reading is Fundamental.

It is KTS RIGHT to raise her children as she sees fit as long as she is protecting her children from anything that she sees/precieves harmful to her children. I stand behind anyone who is trying to protect children.

And I'll protect children wherever I can against ignorance and bigotry.

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Reading is Fundamental.

The Catholic church considers those who practice artificial means of birth control, those who have had sex outside of marriage, or anyone who has had invitro fertilization all grave sinners. I'm just curious if she felt a need to protect her children from these "sinners" also or just homosexual "sinners" and how she came to that conclusion.

Oh Good Grief!

KTS specifically said that if she knew that a male/female couple were "living in sin" she wouldn't want her children around that couple.

Some things, like artificial means of birth control, or invitro fertilization or sex outside of marriage, should not be obvious to the outside world.

I honestly can't believe I'm defending KTS, but dammit....some of you all are just looking for trouble. If you want to a have a deep and meaningful discussion of theology and religious beliefs---why not conduct it in PMs or email? The whole purpose of posting this was to stir up trouble and/or ambush KTS.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I think it's hilarious that the Catholic Church is so against homosexuals, especially in light of the priest going after boys.

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Support bacteria -- it's the only culture some people have!

If Vegetarians eat Vegetables. Do Humanitarians eat Humans?

'Vegetarian' is an old Native American word for bad hunter.

Homosexuality and pedophilia are not the same thing.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Absolutely right.


There's a certain irony that the church will condemn those that engage in loving, adult relationship and overlook those that prey on innocent children, though.

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Reading is Fundamental.

What difference does that make? In the eyes of the Catholic church a sin is a sin. How does two people of the same sex living together, minding their own business, leading normal, everyday lives, corrupt children?

Sinning is ok as long as you're not obvious about it?

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Reading is Fundamental.

Ditto what Marilynk said. I'm Catholic and have never used artificial birth control and have 3 kids. I have many Catholic friends who also practice natural birth control and only have 2 kids.

Besides. . .I'm not sure what is meant by "grave sinners". The Catholic church does not consider any of these things mortal sins. The Catholic church does not consider being gay a sin. . ..only practicing homosexuality. I've known plenty of non-gay people who are guilty of that. So what's the point of this thread? To bash KTS? To bash Catholics? Your not Catholic are you? So why do you care what the Catholic church has to say?

What I find really funny is that the Catholic church is very tolerant. It is always love the sinner, hate the sin. There are support groups for women who have had abortions. My kids went to Catholic school, where my daughter's 6th grade teacher was openly gay. Of course, she never discussed it with the kids, but it was obvious enough that even my daughter knew it. People are not perfect, we are all sinners. If Kathy doesn't want to have her kids at her cousin's gay wedding, to show that it is not a lifestyle that she condones. . .then so be it. She's not asking her kids to go beat up gay people, or stand on the side of the road with a sign that says "God hates fags."

It's like this. . .I smoke. And when I get in my car that's when I have to biggest urge to light up. So let's assume you are not a smoker. You don't approve of it and you think it is not healthy for me, so you choose to not ride in my car with me. It doesn't mean you hate me. It just means that you choose not to be around my smoking.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

The Catholic church is not "so against homosexuals" I've known plenty of gay priests. It's the practicing of homosexuality that they don't approve of. And like I've said, I've known plenty of straight people that have practiced homosexuality.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

A quote from Catholic answers , Birth Control
"The Church also,fulfilling the role given it by Christ as the identifier and interpreter of apostolic scripture and apostolic tradition, has constantly condemned contraception as gravely sinfull."

Maybe the question would have been simpler if it applied to divorce. If your children are required to avoid gay people, are they also required to avoid divorced people? According to Hambirg, just being gay isn't even a problem -- it's the "practicing," which I assume means sex (please correct me if it means something else.) In that case, wouldn't homosexuals who are not having sex in front of the children actually be more acceptable than divorced people?

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Reading is Fundamental.

e
Agreed. I just hate to see people put homosexuality and pedophilia side-by-side, as though there is a relationship between the two. I think that is why some people think that, for instance, gay men shouldn't be around boys. The Boy Scouts is one group that seems to have the two confused. I'd have no problem having my son in a troupe led by a gay Boy Scout leader. I wouldn't let him within arm's reach of a priest.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

The point of this thread was not to bash anyone. KTS is the one who brought up the Catholic churches stance on homosexuality on her thread that SHE started I was curious to see if KTS felt a need to protect her children from everyone the Catholic church proclaims sinners or just the gay ones and why. I'm not Catholic now but I was raised Catholic and educated in Catholic schools so I'm very familiar with Catholic teachings. And guess what, if you say you are straight, but you've had sex with people of the same sex, you are either bi or gay.

Just wondering, How do you know who is practicing birth control by looking at them? I have one child. I had a stroke during child birth. If you didnt know us and looked at us, you would have sworn we were practicing some form of birth control when in fact, I had to have a hysterectory right after she was born due to the stroke.

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«·´`·.(¸.·´(¸.·* *·.¸)`·.¸).·´`·»


Please leave feedback for me here.
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I would say yes. To me it's about the same. But I don't have a problem with letting my children around gay people.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

You go girl! And yes NFP is a good birth control method. You will find the divorce statistics for couples practicing that extremely low. I did use NFP to get pregnant and have my sons. I did time it to try and have boys and it worked!

This is just so silly. Almost too silly to answer. If my children were young and I had to have them watch couples take their birth control then I might consider not letting them go there!!! lol Or if the children had to go watch the invitro process!! I really doubt the sincerety (sp) of this whole thread. I started the Catholic thread as an answer to a question in the other thread (Joe the Plumber) that closed before I could answer it.

Maybe you're willing to answer the simpler question, Kathy. Are your children allowed around divorced people? Divorce is an even more obvious "condition" than homosexuality. If two mommies is bad, surely mommy without daddy because of divorce is even worse, isn't it?

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Reading is Fundamental.

There is nothing wrong with being around divorced people. Divorce is allowed. Remarriage is not unless the first marriage was annulled. I have been divorced. I went to Catholic school. I have used birth control. As I have said I was away from the Church for a long time but am happily back. I understand how all the "rules" fit together. I am not a cafeteria Catholic in the slightest bit. I am a conservative Catholic and I have never been happier than I am now.

Thanks! Don't you just love the snotty comment made on here before I even answered? I hope "they" enjoyed their popcorn and soda but I bet they are disappointed! lol

I think it was a little of both, since the priest went after boys and not girls. Homosexual pedophilia.

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Support bacteria -- it's the only culture some people have!

If Vegetarians eat Vegetables. Do Humanitarians eat Humans?

'Vegetarian' is an old Native American word for bad hunter.

Hey that's a good point!

YOU, making assumptions??? The HORROR!

I'm surprised that certain posters got giddy over the "sit-back-and-watch-someone-get-ganged-up-on" mentality here - especially some that I have seen painfully go down in flames in the past...

Pretty shocking... and quite telling (ie judgmental), in and of itself....

Then again, others didn't shock me at all...pretty predictable how certain posters come out practically salivating at the idea of causing trouble...

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

AFP: Divorce, abortion an offence to God, pope says

Doesn't sound ok to me. Do I misunderstand what Pope B meant by "offences in the sight of God"? Is that his way of saying it's okey dokey?

BTW, for those who don't understand the difference between homosexuality and pedophila, Homosexuality and Pedophilia: The False Link | Psychology Today Blogs

They're not the same. That's a dirty smear by a certain element in society.

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Reading is Fundamental.

Kathy, are you married? If so, was an annullment difficult to get? I have heard it is.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

The Catholic church does not allow "Altar Girls" do they? They take what they can get.

__________________
If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

closed thread, post limit reached

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