I have read alot of stuff about these folks and I have to wonder, Why is Kate not trying to be nicer since there is soooo much stuff posted about what a witch she is. She HAS to know what people are saying about her. I watched the show the other nite and Maddy is getting just as rude as Kate is. I really dont understand why she is not trying to change a little bit . One site I read said the producers of the show has told her she needed to lighten up some and she mouthed off at them.I have been watching the Duggers lately and its alot better. Dont have to hear Kate whinning about everything.

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I've only seen the show twice - and I agree with you. Kate comes across awful! Maybe it's the editing, but she's just obnoxious.

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I only flipped on to this show once, recently to see what all the flap was about and lasted about 5 min.
I don't need crud like that in my living room

Off topic: OP I just read your blog about the dog. I laughed until tears ran. But I'm not laughing at you, I'm laughing with you.

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Glad you enjoyed it cashchik.. One of my fav's is the story about the dildo. It may be on the second page. I cant remember. And the one about napkin coasters. Read those too. Glad someone likes them. lol.

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Oh yea, and read "whats that smell"!!!!!!! its great. lol

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That is why I said was all this fame and fortune that came to Jon and Kate plus 8 worth it, not at all on any levels. I decided to sit down and watch the entire season opener with them celebrating the 6 kids 5 year old birthday. Of course Kate was controlliing as ever and trying to pretend for some parts of the show things all are honky dorey sp.... While you can clearly see Jon was not in the mood for any of the questions they were asked, while Kate once again decided to talk talk talk.. Honestly, if not the least this show is a eye opening experience for all concerned, honestly I already saw the preview for next weeks espisode where its kate's birthday, it seems from the previews Jon is not involved. Again its truly time for this show to end. I have decided to not watch anymore and those children need to stop having their lives out there for all to see. And if there is any hope for Jon and Kate they need serious help asap..... Peace. Catherine

Kate is a beotch!!! I think she's so stuck on herself and her way that she probably doesn't even see herself the way everyone else does. You'd think a crumbling marriage would make her take a look at herself. They need marriage counseling ASAP. I LOVE the Duggars!

gaaaag!!!!

You know, I might have felt the same way if I didn't have a large family (9 kids) as my best friends. I'm sure not all large families are successful but the Duggars seem to be raising good kids and my friends kids are awesome. Neither of these families are living on public assistance (although my friends would probably qualify for just about anything but they don't want to get any govt help) but look at all the freebies and money that Jon and Kate are taking advantage of. Not to mention those kids may end up with significant "issues".

While I do not agree with all the Duggar family stand for and their beliefs I agree I rather watch them because the whole Jon and Kate plus 8 has gotten so way out of hand aside from the parents its the children who are suffering and who will continue I am sure at the ages of the Maddy and Cara they have already experienced some of the negative comments from having so much fame and fortune the show has to end for at least the well being and safety for the 8 children who are innocent at this point... Peace. Catherine

I like the duggers too. there is one called the family table I like better than the duggers and Alot better than whinning kate. she really gets on my nerves with all her drama and whinning. Lord I feel for Jon, having to live with her.

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I don't think she knows how to be nicer. She seems so unhappy and miserable -- I don't think she could fake it (being nice) if she tried.

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"We must love them both--those whose opinions we share and those whose opinions we reject. For both have labored in the search for truth, and both have helped us in the finding of it."
Saint Thomas Aquinas

I don't approve of really large families but that is not why I don't like the Duggars. Do you think they are doing the show for free? What difference does it make if Jon and Kate take advantage of other things offered as well? Both families are making money off their kids. And, although I have not seen a great deal of either show, I have never seen any indication that either family is taking public assistance. They are being paid for a product and that product happens to be their lives.

I see little real differences in the two families except Kate has given birth twice and the other has give birth enough times that I can't figure out what is holding her uterus in place anymore. They are both weird, but in different ways. Kate can be shrewish, but seems pretty real, and I suspect she is regretting a lot of what has been happening, and perhaps even doing the show. The Duggar woman, with her baby-girl voice, religious zeal, and strange ideas is just frightening. I always expect to hear the twilight zone music on that show.

People with large families often get breaks on things that the rest of us don't. My best friend when my kids were small had a gang of kids and we took our kids to the same dentist and all went at the same time. I found out she was paying less per child than I was and even though she was my friend, I complained to the dentist. I was subsidizing her choice of having many children. I did not feel I should have to subsidize that. If it costs the dentist x amount of dollars to do a cleaning then charge everyone that price. This was not the only time she got breaks on things either.

I do think that the kids on all of these shows need protection. The money should be divided up for each individual on the show, including the parents and the great majority of the kids money should be put in a trust that is run by in independent source.

Would you watch parents of 8 calm and loving family, doing routine things, long enough for them to become millionaires? I don't think so. This contriversy is really lining thier pockets and those of the in-laws. The state of Pa. is investigating alligations of labor law violations. I am sure TLC can afford to pay any and all fines.

I agree completely! There has to be a separate advocate for the children and trust funds. I know many child stars have had awful issues because of their greedy parents or parents who mishandled their hard earned money. Those child actors are entitled to every penny of their income without anyone dabbling in it.

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An attorney on one of the cable news shows said that same thing last night-those children are on camera enough to be considered child actors and should be getting paid, etc...

How can you make such a generalized statement-I don't approve of really large families? That just makes NO sense. Exactly how many, in your opinion, should be allowed? Should it be on a sliding income scale?? lol Seriously though. YOu said you haven't watch much of either show but you sure have drawn lots of conclusions. I really don't see anything wrong with the dentist giving a "group" discount. People get discounts, favors, etc... all the time for various reasons. Do you feel this way about paying taxes for school? Should people only have to pay taxes that go to the schools if they have children and then proportionate to how many children they have?

If one is concerned about population explosion, the environment, or conservation of resources, one could easily be concerned with large families. Makes sense to me.

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

And you don't think the same of the Duggars? I would hazard a guess that they get compensated w/ freebies and monies from companies. Furthermore, their children may end up w/significant "issues" as well.

My mom comes from a family of 12 siblings ( one of those cases of "his, mine and ours") So I'm familiar with large families. Heck, I was related to over half of the people I went to school with! But, while my mom and her remaining siblings have fond memories of their "growing up"; I've heard the "horror" stories as well. I wouldn't recommend a large family for anyone in this day and age.

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Acutally not to me at all. My friends with the 9 kids have less garbage than my son and I do. We get a lot of carryout, etc...and they never get carryout. They almost never buy anything new. They have a van and a small car. I would say a family with two kids, with parents who drive to work each day, who eat out, go to the mall, go on vacations, buy new stuff, etc... waste alot more than my friends. They even use wood to heat their house-they chop it up themselves at a friends farm. It's all trees that have come down. Their electricity usage is pretty low too-one tiny tv for videos, no tv watching, one computer, no video games, etc... I'll put this family up against any 2 kid family and I'm sure they will be much more friendly to the environment.

I have no idea if the Duggars get anything. But I think their family seems well adjusted and down to earth. My aunt and uncle who lived a block away from me had 13 kids so I grew up knowing all about large families too. Don't small families have any "horror" stories or are those just reserved for large families? There can be awesome large familes and awesome small families and horrible large families and horrible small families. I don't think you can just judge groups like that.

To me it is kinda like watching a train wreck, I can't quit watching cause I might miss someting really bad. Plus they seem to be the only ones in a worse marriage than mine.


Before you start yelling at me, I really tend to agree with everyone here that it is a complete mess, just sitting on the pitty pot today.

Aw, sorry to hear you are having a rough marriage. No fun at all. I'm sure I'll watch tomorrow too even though I shouldn't be a party to such a mess by watching. I will be switching back and forth between The Bachelorette and I'm a Celebrity Get Me Out of Here (sounds sooooo lame) but I'll catch Jon and Kate later when they air it the second time-unless I come to my senses by then! lol

they are just so sickening sweet.....

Kate is a super deluxe beyotch on wheels.

She is MEAN to those poor kids. They're little kids, of course they're going to want to hug/kiss/hang on/etc their MOTHER but I've never seen her be affectionate or even nice to the multiples.

I've seen the show a few times and I never saw Kate be nice to the kids. She yells at them, ignores them, brushes them off, etc. Why in hell did you have all those kids if you aren't interested in them at all???

But she's even nastier to Jon and the other people who come to help. One time a new cleaning lady was starting and Kate was vicious to her. The cleaning lady spoke very little english so there was a communication barrier to start with but did Kate even try to be nice? NOPE. She yelled at the lady for not dusting behind the magazines on a tv stand on the second floor. Seriously. In a house with that many people in it, the thing that beyotcherella finds to yell about is a tiny bit of dust behind some magazines on a second floor tv stand. Luckily the cleaning lady was NOT coming back-Kate couldn't deal with that level of incompetence.

I hope Jon leaves her and the kids wind up in a home with nice people to take care of them. The multiple kids seem reasonably well behaved and pretty even tempered, don't know about the oldest kids as I haven't seen much of them.

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

That is true. The Duggars seem pretty "green" too. It's not nice condemning large families though.

Well, we're pretty "green" too and so are our neighbors across the street, but that still doesn't make it any more or less valid.

A lot of the condemnations people make here aren't nice, aren't nice at all....especially those made from religious or political convictions, I've noticed.

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I am sorry and I know that I will get flamed for this but when you have 18 kids, or even 8 kids, someone is going to get neglected by the parent... and someone is going to have to play mommy to a younger sibling..
I think it is just terri9ble!

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Be careful what you wish for.....

EXCUSE ME? Voicing an opinion is all that people have done. Now granted those opinions may differ from yours--and just because the opinions are different than YOURS doesn't mean it's "not nice".

Condemnation works both ways---if none of us (who disagree with your position) can voice our disagreement, then you shouldn't voice your disagreement with some of our positions!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Have you actually been around a large family? While what you said seems to make sense it's quite the opposite from what I have experienced with my friends. Especially when you home school the kids. My goodness, mom is there all day 365 days a year! Public school kids are out of the home for 8 hrs for school. Instead they are schooling with their mom and their siblings, spending lots and lots of quality time together. And no sending them off to daycare when they are babies so mom and dad can work. And helping out with your siblings? Since when is that a negative? Sounds loving to me.

Back to the topic at hand...To answer the question, why is Kate not trying to be nicer? Because I don't think that she was nice to begin with...and she's certainly not going to be nicer if someone wants her to be. She sees that the uglier she is, the more publicity they get=more $$$$$$$. No one would tune in if she was a sweetie pie. People want to see drama. I do believe that her negative ways will rub off on her children. She's definitely going to taint them for life in some way or another. Hopefully when they're adults, they'll be able to get past all of this crap and move on to have productive lives. I've only watched the show a few times and can't stand it. I even can't help but wonder if all of this marriage trouble wasn't planned to drum up more publicity for the show. The kids are getting older and people aren't as interested anymore. Maybe they had to think up something to enable them to keep cashing in on these kids for a little longer. Who knows? I can't comment about the Duggars because I've never watched their show. ~Lisa

Kathy,
Thats why this board is so great, we can all offer differnce of opinions. I have been around big families and it was always the same..."so and so check your sister because I am doing this with your brother..." or something similar to that...
Public school kids are going 8 hours a day... however they are also learning and socializing and their parents are working.... Not everyone is as fortunate as the duggars to not pay taxes and having someone foot their bills!

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Who's paying their taxes? I didn't know about that. I was actually referring to my friends with the homeschooling, etc... Getting involved with the local homeschooling bunch I view large families differently than I used to. I'm not sure "checking on so and so" is bad unless it's used all the time, etc...Having observed my friends, it's more a natural "we love each other, we are family, so we help each other" kind of thing. Having been friends with them for 8+ years I really don't see any resentment, etc... for helping with their siblings. I actually asked Joan about that once and she looked at me quizically and said "why would they not want to help-they are their sisters, they love each other?". I do admit this family may be exceptional as I can't find a bad thing to say about them. As far as socializing, with this home school group, they do so much more than I ever did or even my own kids. They have all kinds of fun functions and get togethers and form lasting friendships. There have even been free dance lessons this past year! This group is not missing any socializing opportunities and have more time with siblings and at least one parent than public school, working parents ever do. But that is just my personal experience with this particular group. It's been eye opening (and awesome) for me getting involved with them.

PS Is there something wrong with learning to care for your siblings and help around the house? I'm not talking about extreme situations.

I'm confused...why wouldn't the Duggars have to pay taxes?

"God has blessed The Duggars Inc., an Arkansas faith-based nonprofit…er, family…with its 17th child, who was born Thursday. You may recall Michelle and Jim Bob Duggar (he’s an Arkansas legislator) from their numerous TV appearances, in which they revel in the miracle of unprotected heterosexual sex and beg for donations.

The Duggars - who live largely tax-free by claiming their home as a church"

Once again someone using religion to gain...

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Be careful what you wish for.....

You have got to be kidding me!!! The claim their HOME as a CHURCH. That is the craziest thing I've heard. That makes me think they're even weirder than I though they were. I can't stand their show, only watched a couple episodes and thought they're weird. But that just takes the cake. How in the world do they get away with that????

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Never heard of that one either. If it's true then it should be investigated. That would seem to me to be taking advantage of the system and that would make me upset with them.

wonder whos paying for it since anyone on the internet can pull up their property tax records

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They hold services in their home so they can claim that their home is their church. They have other families attend services and I believe that JimBob is an ordained minister so he has to have a place to preside over.
They had a show in the beginning, one of the only ones I saw, where they had services in their home with another family.

I think the time for exploiting these children needs to come to a halt. J and K are doing their kids such a diservice by putting all their business in the "streets" for them to see later in their lives. The kids seem like they were an answer to all of J and K's financial hardships and not wanted and loved for the individuals they are. They are just cash cows to them. The Duggars are not a family either...they are a classroom. I can't imagine giving each of the 18 the love and care each child needs when you have so many. IMO. It is now the way to assure that you will have a future financially....have a litter or two of babies and you have got it made. Freebies until they are grown.

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Listen as i always said life is all about choices. I have finally decided to write down the things I feel personally about the Duggars and their lifestyle.
1. Honestly having 18 children you need the older ones to take care of the younger ones there is no other way, to me I am sorry its not fair, you are only a child once.
2. Because all of their children have been homeschooled does anyone of these children have any desire to go to college and become something else then just marrying so young and have children after children, I mean honestly does anyone else here feel that perhaps some of their children might have a desire to do something else with their lives?? they should be given the chance no where has college or anything else ever been mentioned.
Finally to me honestly I feel like Michelle and Bob do not have a complete 50/50 marriage, she has given birth so many times and no matter what or all the praying it hurts. I remember the last espisode where Michelle was shopping for baby items for their 18th child and where JimBob complained he was tired of shopping and had to sit down, please please give me a break you wife birthed 18 children for you. I am sorry there are some good values they have but the way Michelle looks into JimBobs eyes when speaking it reminds me of him being the boss and he controls everything. Okay I spoke my personal views. Ready for any flames.... Catherine

Well perhaps it makes no sense to you but it does to me. I'm not saying I want to pass a law against it. I just don't like it. I assume I'm entitled to that opinion?

If it costs the dentist so much to do cleanings and they are getting theirs cheaper, then I am picking up the tab for what they aren't paying and so is everyone else who has fewer children and is not eligible for the group discount. This is true for any group that gets discounts. Those not getting the discounts are subsidizing others. And I see no reason I should be subsidizing someone who wants a gazillion kids. I do not feel that way if the person has adopted a gazillion kids. I also have no problem paying taxes for public schools, because that is an investment in the future and all kids deserve a good education. Those that send their kids to parochial schools subsidize the larger families that attend the same schools. That's their choice. It's not a choice I would accept.

Mainly my ideas are that if you want kids then pay for them. Do not expect me to pony up for your dental, vision, etc. If you can't pay for them, then don't have them. And I would like to see the deduction on income tax limited to a certain number of children too. I don't think there should be a reward system in our income tax for reproducing more than two kids per couple, or some other low but reasonable number, maybe three. Adoption would be the exception.

Of course you are entitled to your opinion. I guess you really do need to take the dental problem up with the dentist. However, don't we all subsidize all that with our insurance premiums? I'm sure there are plenty of deadbeats with no kids that skip out on their dental, hospital, doctor bills, etc... that we end up paying for with increased costs, rates, etc... Another question-don't we need more kids to save social security, etc... Isn't the country already worried about not enough young people paying into SS, etc... Don't forget those kids will be the ones taking care of us! So tax exempt away! lol

All you need is guts. You go online and get ordained. I think the going rate is about $20. You declare your house to be your church. Invite people to come and worship and then you are tax exempt. There are a number of people who have done this with some success for years. Because the numbers are kind of small, I gather the IRS doesn't bother them much. They are afraid, I suspect that if they start bothering them, the publicity it might garner could increase the number of people doing it. Just more people we are subsidizing. I have a feeling that may be why it is not played up on the Duggars as well. If it gets talked about too much, a bunch of people might see the ridiculousness of tax exemptions for church property.

Two things...

One, the quote about claiming their house as a church..... where is that from? I have a difficult time believing it. I can see that they could pro-rate the hours it is used as a place of worship, but in order for the entire thing to be tax exempt all the time would mean the church would have to own the home.... and unless I see something saying it is in the church's name, I can't imagine it is true.

The mocking of him regarding his religious status is, IMHO, very un-American. Whether you agree with his religion or not, he has a constitutional right to believe in whatever 'higher power'' he chooses. It's fundamental that we are allowed to come to our own conclusions about the origin of mankind, and if the conclusions at which we arrive then dictate that we behave certain ways, etc., we are free to carry out those actions.

It is absolutely as legitimate for them to worship in a home as it is for someone else to worship in a synagogue or a mosque or a sanctuary. The reality is that for many, many years post-Christ, worshiping in homes was the ONLY way it was done if you were Christian. There were no 'church buildings'. Worship times centered around meals and gathering together with other of similar beliefs and doing exactly as the Duggars do. It was a very family-oriented, family-centered event...and there are a great number of people in America who follow this pattern. They are apt to shun the idea of spending money on a pricey building and paying a minister when they can get more bang for their benevolence buck if they meet in a home and a lay member performs duties typically associated with a preacher.

If this is how they are doing things, they are no less entitled to whatever tax breaks the Baptist Church or Lutheran Church down the street gets.

I am assuming that he is not paid much of a salary as their minister,and that probably his becoming ordained has more to do with being legally able to perform weddings than anything else. The families who church with them have kids who will likely want him, as their minister, to perform their services... and if he is not legally able, they are out of luck.

Two.... we in America have a very different view of childhood than many other cultures and many past generations. I don't think we are better, though. We seem to have this expectation that childhood is for fun.... childhood is for being entirely carefree.... childhood is for getting lots of personal attention... etc. I think that is a very unique thing about us and I am not convinced it is healthy.

Look around and see how many self-absorbed, self-centered adults we have that lack the self-discipline not to rack up the credit card bill by the time they are 20 buying things they can't afford but that they *want*. The divorce rate here is much higher than in times past, and much higher than in many other nations. I think a lot of that boils down to one or both parties not getting everything from their spouse that they want... or parenting being *too hard*... etc.

I have a feeling that kids raised with a sense of family community, and a sense of responsibility towards one another go into adulthood with a much different expectation than just "does it make me HAPPY????". I think it's a much more mature perspective.

In other words... I think those who see childhood not as the years free FROM responsibility but rather as the years in which a parent has an opportunity and duty to INSTILL a sense of responsibility... well, I think it may not look like much fun to those who have different expectations, but I think that given that 75% of our lives are NOT spent as children, in the long run, they will have benefited from the sense of 'family community' they felt in a helping,loving family environment.

What is the point of one on one time between a parent and a child? I assume it is to help the child develop a sense that they are special and loved and significant. I assume it gives them a sense of stability and connectedness.

If those things are the GOALS of parent/child 'alone time', if you asked those Duggar kids if they feel significant.... if they feel valued... they would probably say yes. They 'got' those feelings through different encounters than MY daughter.... but I am sure they are very secure in their relationships with their parents.

My husband is from a family whose children number up in the teens. When they were kids, there was very, very little 'alone' time with parents, and there was a lot of sibling-helping-sibling time. A. Lot.

Today, they are all (except one!) happy, very well adjusted adults who are mostly close with their parents. None *don't* get along with the parents - some are just wired to call home more, etc. The grandkids number in the 60's and my mother-in-law is forever excitedly emailing us all YouTube videos of the cousins, etc. They are crazy about their large family, and for the most part the kids are still nuts about each other. With that many, there are always a few personality conflicts.... but there is MUCH less fussing between all of them than I often see in families of just two or three or four. I know many people who have siblings they refuse to speak of from smaller families.... but this family of ___teen adult kids (ages 63 - 42) all consider each other their dearest friends, though they are spread out between three continents and only get together as a big group every two years.

None of THEM opted to have so many kids. The largest family had seven.... five of which were adopted when they were older. Several just have two kids.

But put all of my in-laws in a room and it's like the Big Fat Greek Wedding, minus any arguing. They talk about old times, they laugh until they cry, they are all still 'connected' with the sibling that was their 'partner'.....

They were very blessed. It's not typical, and their upbringing didn't mirror that 'value' that says all kids should see themselves as individuals and feel 'special' because of all the attention they get.... but the bottom line is their upbringing *worked*. They are happy, healthy, functioning adults.

What more can anyone ask for?

The Jim Bob & Michelle Duggar Family | Official Website

It discusses it here too

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Be careful what you wish for.....

Damn! Now mocking is un-American. I guess I'd better start packing, mostly because I have trouble remembering all the "rules" for being American. Perhaps we could write a book, "You Know You're Un-American If....."

As far as not being paid much of a salary and doing it so he can perform weddings etc., I suspect it's more for tax purposes than any other reason. Also with his brood, going to church would really be expensive. Week after week of all of them putting money in the collection plate? That can add up to a very tidy amount.

I found some interesting links. Mind you I haven't read every word of every link, but the tax benefits are very nice.

This one is mentioned more than once on other links. This is Illinois
At-Home Church Means Big Tax Breaks | Jewcy.com

This references the first but talks about people doing this in Florida
Don't Mess With Taxes: More 'home' church tax breaks

And this purports to show you the way
Start YOUR Church TODAY for FREE!

To the poster that says the Duggar's claim their house as a church, where did you get this info from? Anyone can copy and paste info, I want to read the article or info for myself.
One of the Duggar's shows a while back showed the Duggar's church family and no, it wasn't a church held in their home.

SR.com: Meet the Duggars

There are many articles that say they belong to a home church and I know that the very first show they had showed them meeting with a group of people in their home for church.

There has been disscussion on that they do not have to pay property taxes on the property because it is considered a church.

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I thought that was common knowledge.. if you read their website they are all about making money with out holding down a real job...

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