Gosh, I feel like I'm being gypped. I start to read threads in the morning then I go to work. When I get home, I log on to finish reading the thread...and poof!...it's gone. Why do people start threads then delete them? I'm assuming the thread took a turn for the worse, or somebody's feelings got hurt. Any thoughts?

Well shoot, I must have missed it too. I'm always a day late and a dollar short.

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

Your not missing much....just alot of dumb drama!

what was the subject of the thread?

Do u remember any of the subjects of the post perhaps that might help.. peace. Catherine

I know one of them was the thread about the murder to Dr. Tiller. I went to check on it the next morning and ***poof*** it was gone!

I deleted that thread because it was going downhill and people were being called hostile names, threatening, etc... I did save the thread in a personal file though.

The Dr. Tiller post never should have been posted in the way it was to begin with. Talk about outright asking for a fight.

There was a entire post that was meant to be derogatory towards me (it kind of backfired on the poster though ) but it was deleted by the moderators. Personal attacks are not allowed.

Anything else?

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

cjs - the thread was not deleted by the moderators....as stated in the post above yours, it was deleted by the OP.

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Incorrect, chelmo. The Tiller post was deleted by the OP.

The bash cjs216 post started by ILL - OMG, she has an avatar that says peace thread - (the second item that I mentioned) was deleted by a moderator. Check with the other moderators if you need verification, but you are wrong.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I received a email by the mods that they deleted the post I started about cjs216, for the record it did not backfire on me at all. Peace. Catherine

I was NOT asking for a fight. I was shocked that it happened. It was NEWS. Maybe people LOOKING for a fight might take it that way.......Personal attacks are not allowed??? Maybe not as a thread but they certainly show up enough in posts.

I think you should go to your rooms and stay there until you can play nice.

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When you don`t know what to do-Walk fast and look worried.

Guess it was a good thing that it was deleted: I'm sure I would not have agreed with the majority of comments since I do think he deserved to be called "Tiller the Baby Killer". But let me be very, very clear that I do NOT believe he should have been killed.

The late-term and partial-birth abortions that Tiller did should sadden even the most pro-choice people.

CNN had a great interview with a woman whose baby girl was diagnosed with that trisome x or 8 disease that will kill the child shortly after birth. The mother said that even though the baby would die shortly after death she wanted the child to have a natural death, not one brought about by her. She carried the baby to term and I think she lived 12 hours. They had pictures of her holding the baby with her family surrounding her. She said that she thought they would all be sad but for some reason (God maybe?) they weren't. They just celebrated the time they had with her and the baby died in her arms. She said she had total peace. It was really a moving story.

As a pro-choice person, I can say that without a doubt this does sadden me. But, this is our law and it is legal. The choice of this can never be an easy one, I'm sure. However, it is a legal procedure that ends the life of a fetus.

Why does it seem like people who are anti-abortion come across as thinking that people who are pro-choice are hunky dorey with the whole abortion thing? A person can be against the procedure but not the choice to make it. I know, I know, I know.... I'll never get anyone to see it differently, but, this really does perplex me, the logic.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

There are many reasons that this procedure might be needed. But that is immaterial. It should not be anyone's decision other than the woman who is pregnant. To vilify and encourage the murder of, (and yes, calling him Killer Tiller is encouragement to the less than stable members of the far right), an individual who provides a safe, clean and caring environment in which to have this done, is unjust. There are women who can carry a dead or dying baby for a few weeks and come to grips with the sadness and there are more fragile women who can't and everything in between. No two people are alike. There has to be a place for them to receive the treatment they need. Of course it's sad. Those women grieve for their loss as much or more as anyone else. No one waits that long through a pregnancy and just flippantly decides 8 months in that "Gee, it sure seems like a nice day. I think I'll have a late term abortion." These are extreme cases that sometimes require extreme answers. To think otherwise is naive or presumptuous.

I find this story horribly selfish. Instead of ending the life that was sure to end no matter what quickly, the parents choose that their child suffer for twelve hours from heart failure, (When's the last time you felt like you were drowning and couldn't catch your breath?) just so they could hold it and take a few pictures.

That is SOOOOO not what happened in this story. It was a beautiful story. The baby was not in pain, but was peaceful. So ripping this child to pieces in the womb would have been better and no pain, huh?

Wildwood-you may not have read my post but I did NOT condone this murder. And as I said I was quoting a news program when I said Tiller, the baby killer. It's what comes to my mind when I hear his name. And you cannot blame prolifers for a loon that kills someone. Geez, that's nonsensical (sp), naive and presumptuous.

Dr. Tiller performed abortions for women with dead babies, babies without brains, babies without spines, and babies without internal organs or heart defects that were beyond repair. There are so many karyotypes that are not compatible with life.

Most sadly, is the confusion over the so-called "partial birth." This is done to protect the mother. Now, because of feel good legislation to get votes, women with babies with hydrocephalus must have the surgical procedure of a cessarian section to remove a dead or dying baby with this condition.

For me, yes. For you, apparently, no.

That is why there is choice in personal matters that don't concern you.

Not all those opposed to abortion 100%. Just those who harass people who work at clinics and who seek medical care from the clinics. Just people who call someone doing a legal procedure evil and a murderer. Just people like YOU really.

I"m not sure this is true. If you can fine links I'd appreciate it.

'Partial-Birth Abortion:' Separating Fact from Spin : NPR
"Take, for example, cases in which the fetus develops hydrocephalus (commonly known as water on the brain). Often undetectable until well into the second three months of pregnancy, the condition causes enlargement of the skull up to two-and-a-half times its normal size. It not only results in severe brain damage to the fetus, it can also create severe health risks to the mother if she tries to deliver it vaginally... Some doctors say D&X abortion is a preferable method for ending such pregnancies without damaging the woman's cervix...
Sometimes. Labor can be induced, or the fetus can be removed by caesarian section in some cases."

The world is not black and white. It is easier to see it that way, but it just isn't.

Well my goodness what about other parts of this article?
Two abortion physicians, one in Ohio and one in California, independently developed variations on the method by extracting the fetus intact. The Ohio physician, Martin Haskell, called his method "dilation and extraction," or D&X. It involved dilating the woman's cervix, then pulling the fetus through it feet first until only the head remained inside. Using scissors or another sharp instrument, the head was then punctured, and the skull compressed, so it, too, could fit through the dilated cervix.
and
Take, for example, cases in which the fetus develops hydrocephalus (commonly known as water on the brain). Often undetectable until well into the second three months of pregnancy, the condition causes enlargement of the skull up to two-and-a-half times its normal size. It not only results in severe brain damage to the fetus, it can also create severe health risks to the mother if she tries to deliver it vaginally.

Some doctors say D&X abortion is a preferable method for ending such pregnancies without damaging the woman's cervix. Those in the anti-abortion camp, however, argue that the procedure is never medically necessary, noting that enough fluid can be drained from hydrocephalus babies in the womb to ensure a safe delivery.

Indeed, many abortion opponents believe even severely deformed fetuses should be delivered regardless of their prospects for a healthy life.

"We don't believe that sick babies -- babies with disabilities -- should be pulled out by the legs and struck through the head," Right to Life's Johnson told The New Republic. "We believe they should live out their life -- whether it's a few minutes or six hours."

You asked for a reference that women must now undergo C-Sections to protect their future reproductive health. You got it

This was a balanced report. Apparenty, you give it worth, since you are happy to cite other sections.

TV is an amazing thing - they can alter reality and any image can be changed into want they want it to be. In TV land, they can tell a story and make people without brain cells believe their spin is reality. The baby certainly suffered for hours. Prolonged heart failure is not peaceful and pain free unless you're unconscious - it's scary. Sorry this info doesn't fit into your fantasy world but in the real world the rest of us live in, watching someone die from prolonged heart failure is anything but "beautiful"!

Is was an interview WITH THE ACTUAL MOTHER. It was on Anderson Cooper. I suppose since it was her experience, her doctor, her child and her story she still doesn't know what she's talking about! GEEZ. Who have been the "haters" on this thread? lol

[quote=nightowlrn;3260963]Not all those opposed to abortion 100%. Just those who harass people who work at clinics and who seek medical care from the clinics. Just people who call someone doing a legal procedure evil and a murderer. Just people like YOU really.

<<Picture removed>>

Now THAT really shows YOUR maturity doesn't it?? Makes your side look pretty bad!!! lol

Here's the transcript-her name is Diane Elder. They showed pictures of the baby at the hospital just like normal birth room pics. It was a beautiful story.
Anderson Cooper: Diane Elder chose not to have an abortion even though she had every right to. She joins us now. Diane, thanks for being with us. You actually sent me an e-mail earlier today because of an interview you read that we had on last night. We had a woman on who, in the 20th or 21st week chose to have a late-term abortion because her baby had a severe genetic defect. You had a similar situation, you made a different choice. Why?

Diane Elder: I wanted my baby to have a natural death. I did not want my child to die at my hand.

Anderson Cooper: What did your baby have?

Diane Elder: My baby had a syndrome called Trisomy 18 which is a very severe chromosomal abnormality that is incompatible with life. That’s the phrase doctors used.


Anderson Cooper: You found this out at what stage of the pregnancy?

Diane Elder: I was somewhere in the fifth month of pregnancy.

Anderson Cooper: And obviously, I mean, devastating news.

Diane Elder: It was devastating. I found out on Mother’s Day. And all I can remember is collapsing to the floor because I had been trying for this baby for a very long time. So it felt like almost a cruel joke to me that this happened. And so I went forward with the pregnancy another four months. Probably the most difficult four months of my life. We were prepared for basically a monster because we were told she was going to not have a brain, and she was going to have possibly cleft palate, club feet. And she was born with all those things. She was born missing part of her brain. She had one club foot, one rocker bottom foot. She had just everything that goes along with that condition, which is bad. But we were very taken aback when we found that when she was placed in our arms, we were happy. We were incredibly happy. My husband was with me. A lot of family and friends showed up right after the birth. She was passed around from arms to arms. I told the hospital I did not want any extraordinary measures taken because I wanted what happened to her to be natural. I didn’t want to try to force her to stay alive with needles and tubes if that would cause her pain and just prolong a very difficult life but I did not want to kill her either. So I just decided to completely turn myself over to nature and let it take its course. And the resolution was really a very good resolution. She never suffered.

Anderson Cooper: How long did she live?

Diane Elder: 12 hours. The nurse woke me up at 5:00 a.m. and said, “Diane, I think you might want to get up now. The baby’s having trouble breathing, and this might be her time.” And she put Angela into my arms.

Anderson Cooper: You named her?

Diane Elder: Yes. Angela Diane Elder. And Angela — she was able to make eye contact with me and it seemed as though she were looking into my eyes. I could hear her breath becoming more and more shallow, sort of a rattling breath. And then she took two large breaths and then a very large breath literally sat up and then fell back, and she was gone. And it was a very difficult moment even at this time.

Anderson Cooper: Do you regret it, looking back on it?

Diane Elder: Not it in one — not one minute of it. She died peacefully with no pain. The suffering was ours for two weeks, of course, at least two weeks. Really a whole year. We were in mourning for her, as you would grieve over any loved one who dies. That’s a normal part of life. You can’t get away from the fact that people die and people get sick and they die. But we felt very clean when it was over. And as though the situation was — there was closure. There was a resolution.

Anderson Cooper: Obviously, other women, other families in that situation make choices. Do you believe that women should have the right to make that choice?

Diane Elder: When a baby is a fully formed, living baby, I don’t think that really we’ve ever had the choice to take a life at that stage. I think that that’s a fully formed baby. I mean, I think you had some of the pictures up there. You saw her. She was a fully formed baby. She was born early, by the way. She came out at eight months.

Anderson Cooper: And when you heard about Dr. Tiller’s death, your thoughts?

Diane Elder: Oh, I think that was awful. No one has the right to do that, particularly not someone who considers themselves to be an advocate for life. How can they take another life? It’s inexcusable.

Laugh of the Day Award goes to Kathytheshopper since SHE was the one responsible for it going downhill and calling other posters 'hostile names'! Or is calling somebody a 'baby killer' and 'murderer' a beautiful thing too?

Hope you saved ALL of that thread and didn't edit out YOUR responses! You started another abortion thread just to cause trouble and the ONLY 'threatening post' in it was a promise of legal action if YOU didn't stop your cruelty to another poster that you won't leave alone!

I read your post. I read ALL your posts in that thread. You said that Dr. Tiller was a mass murderer but his killer only killed one person! You said that Dr. Tiller was the one with the problem on Judgement Day. You said that Dr. Tiller killed more babies than his killer killed people so he was a monster but implied his killer was only acting on his conscious!

Guess that's not your idea of condoning it, eh? You spent the whole thread reveling in that doctor's death!

PS - I didn't post in the thread because I'm sick of KTS's abortion this and abortion that posts but I read it all and KTS deleted it because she doesn't like to leave evidence of her trouble making behind. She does this a LOT and she did it AGAIN!

KTS, why don't you repost that thread you deleted in it's ENTIRETY so everybody can see what all you REALLY wrote?

Having been in heart failure before, I can tell you it's anything but peaceful and beautiful. I would hope that if it ever happened again and there was no chance of getting better that either someone would come along with a big shot of morphine or it would progress to complete oxygen deprivation very quickly. It's a horrible, terrifying feeling. I hope the baby was unconscious during that time.


I honestly can't say what I would do in that situation, It's upsetting to even think about. I couldn't fault any mother for the decision they made, regardless of their choice.

I think it would be extremely difficult for me to choose an abortion, but once I saw my child struggling and gasping for air, with no hope of getting better. I'd probably wish that I had ended it quickly for them.

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

I'm not sure what reality you live in...........
Marilynk threatened me because she misunderstood something I posted which I later clarified for her. Well if you are so sick of me why are you posting anything about me? Isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? Oops, I said black, now I will no doubt be called a racist!! lol lol lol Most people on here that aren't out to pick my posts apart understand what I post, that I don't condone violence, that I think babies in the womb are HUMAN BEINGS, etc... Sorry you don't get it. I saved the posts because Marilynk THREATENED ME, not the other way around. Get your facts straight please.

Kts I feel for you hon and as a person who also has strong convictions and personal beliefs I totally understand your strong feelings on the subject. I know this topic is important to you as being a Gay person and being allowed to marry is very important to me. In the end I truly know your a caring and sweet person and am sincerely sorry for the responses in this post. While we me and you may not always agree, I totally respect you feelings. Peace and try to have a peaceful nite and find comfort in your personal beliefs.. Peace. Catherine

Thanks, Catherine. That was very kind of you!

I added the bold just to emphasize how bizarre your comment is. It shows that you minimize concerns about racism as being overblown. Apparently, you then equate that alleged sensitivity in your mind with the objections to your post about Dr. Tiller.

Damn liberals, just too sensitive.

Although, as I remember it, there were conservatives on that thread who were condemning Dr. Tiller's murder as well as liberals. Hmm.

The fact that you can't see anything wrong with what you said in your initial posts about Dr. Tiller's murder shows how out of touch you are with the mainstream. Whatever your stance on abortion, Dr. Tiller was murdered. He was gunned down in his church. He was slaughtered while serving as an usher.

In your initial post, however, you said that "Dr. Tiller, Baby Killer," had been killed. You defended calling him that because Bill O'Reilly had called him the same. You said that he now would have to face the souls of the dead babies he had aborted at heaven's gate. You spared not one word to condemn the murder. The most you said was that the pro-life movement didn't condone Dr. Tiller's murder. That falls far short of condemning it, though.

I think it was the sheer hypocrisy and meanness of spirit of your post that raised such hackles. I know a lot of people who are pro-life on moral grounds. But they were sickened by Dr. Tiller's murder. If you want to talk pot calling the kettle black, what do you say about a person who seems happy at the murder of a man who died because he performed lawful acts, at the behest of persons making the hardest decisions at the hardest times of their lives, and in circumstances where huge numbers of persons condemned him for it? Doesn't that strike you as just hypocritical? To revel in a murder in the name of life?

I was disapointed that you deleted your thread. I saw nothing in it that called for you to delete it. Yes, it was turning heated. But you must have expected that when you posted. If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen. Especially when you were the one to turn the heat up high, you should have had the fortitude of your convictions to stand your ground. Or admit that you were wrong.

I live in the reality where prolonged heart failure causes suffering and is not a "Beautiful" thing just because someone on TV told you so.

I live in the reality that reveling in the murder of a man in his house of worship is not justified just because you don't approve of his LEGAL activities.

I live in the reality of where someone saying that they will take you to court if YOU don't stop bothering THEM is not the same thing as them "THREATENING" you.

Marilnk threatened you with LEGAL ACTION, not bodily harm. I live in the reality where people understand the difference.

1. Not minimizing racist remarks-just pointing out how people on here will take a word and turn it into something it isn't. Which I think you kind of just did!! lol

2. I did not condone his murder. I said I was shocked and that I would pray for his soul. That is not hateful. Catholics believe in Purgatory and therefor pray for the souls of the deceased.

3. Yes, he's been called "Doctor Tiller, the baby Killer". I stand by that actually. As I had posted before what do you want it called, the fetal tissue killer? Dr. Tiller, the "if this tissue tested to be normal it would be a baby but the tests came back negative, so it's not a baby and/or it's ok to discard it" killer?

4. I am not reveling in the murder of this man and I BEG you to find actual passages where I state that. You can infer all you want into what I say but that doesn't me your inference is my intent. And it's quite arrogant of you to do that.

5. Point out where I stated I was happy at his murder? I feel like that one spokesperson who feels so sad that Mr. Tiller may not have been ready to meet his Maker yet. There are many that think he was doing sinful things by aborting babies and he may have had a change of heart if he had lived. Hence, the statement about praying for his soul, which n case you don't know, is a LOVING act.

6. Well when you start getting threats it goes too far. From Marilynk referring to something she misunderstood that I later explained*:
Inferring or "hinting" that I'm a baby-killer (*I NEVER DID THAT!!!!!) is 1) hateful, 2) slanderous/libel, 3) and could be construed as harassment. I am not above filing internet harassment against you. If you persist, and don't stow your mouth(words), I will have no recourse but to file a police report. Furthermore, your actions will then reflect on MC. How are the powers that be at MC feel when stuff starts getting subpoened? hmmmmm.....wonder what other skeletons will come out of your internet closet?
All that for something that was never said, not intended, etc.... I do not call people on here names but for some reason all the anti-kathy people have no problems zinging names at me. So they can take something I say, twisst it and construe it to what they want it to mean so they can bash me.
]My original post was this:
Whoa, my friend called me to say that someone murdered "dr tiller, the baby killer" in his church this morning. I'm in shock. He's going to be seeing all those baby souls of those late term abortions at the gate of Heaven. Yikes. The pro-life movement DOES NOT condone his murder. I'm praying for his soul.

So other than mentioning "Dr. Tiler, the baby killer" what was so scathing about this post? The next post was Marilynk stirring the pot. Imagine that. I WAS shocked this happen, I DO BELIEVE he will see all the souls of the aborted babies, I said the prolife movement DOESN'T condone this and that I will PRAY for his soul.
Where do I state I am happy, pleased, delighted, whatever about his murder? I can't see it.

I double dog dare you-SHOW ME WHERE I REVELED IN HIS MURDER-not just some assumption but actual statements and words. lol = you just said Marilyn threatened me with legal action. That's a threat, in your own words. And I never said a darn thing about bodily harm nor did she. Oh brother.....

Prolonged heart failure????????????? You weren't there, you don't know, I wasn't there either but I heard the mother (the witness) explain it. I will take her word over yours.

I'm going to bed. Maybe some of you can have some more fun creating all kinds of things I didn't say or inferences to things I have said and then bash away! I hope it floats your boat!

That excuse only works a couple of times. When you CONSTANTLY use it (as you do), it stops working. It was your intention to cause trouble and then delete your thread the way you always do so you can dispute what was said. Your meaning was very clear and everyone seems to have 'interpreted' it the same way. They did that because there was only one way to interpret it but hang on to your usual excuse if you think it still proves your point.

Perfect example of KTS the victim. Isn't it terrible that Marilynk WENT TOO FAR and THREATENED her and Kathy was so worried that she had to save the thread in case Marilynk acted on this threat? Must have been really scary for you, Kathy.

Uh oh! Here comes somebody that knows KTS isn't the victim she's pretending to be! What's a KTS to do? How to scramble out of the hole she dug? Not a problem! KTS will just claim that everyone 'inferred' something she didn't mean - AGAIN!

Oh brother is right. Your first posts put you in victim mode with a capital V and you didn't admit the truth until you had to. The reality is that you attacked Marylink AGAIN and Marilynk responded by saying that she would press charges if you persist in harassing HER. You deliberately gave a false impression of what transpired and NOW, everybody knows it.

Not that it will stop you from doing it again. And again ... and again... and again...

Gosh, I feel like I'm being gypped.

I completely agree. I was appalled by that mother, particularly when she described how she was sleeping while her daughter was struggling and had to be awakened by the nurse to be with her daughter while she gasped for breath and then died. I've never been there, but the thought of sleeping while my daughter was dying is hard to imagine. And she was clearly proud of what she'd done.

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Reading is Fundamental.

Yet another hijacking here at mc.....

dl

Here's my two cents worth. I have an incompetent cervix and as I result, I lost a little girl in 1979. She weighed a pound, she was born alive, but she just didn't make it. Her name was Catherine Maude. I had two pregnancies after Catherine that ended the same way...I lost both of them at 18 weeks. FINALLY, a doctor thought to put the McDonald stitch in early on in my pregnancy (at 12 weeks), put me on terbutaline, and Jason (now 26-year-old) was born. I tried for a second child after Jason. I got pregnant and, at 12 weeks, they once again put the stitch in...but, it didn't hold. At 17 weeks, I was leaking and my water broke...but the baby was still going strong. The doctor on call that weekend told me that the easiest thing for me would be to just let them abort the baby...they said he wasn't going to make it anyway. I CHOSE to continue the pregnancy. I stayed in bed, in the hospital, for two weeks hoping to save that life. But, once again, infection set in, he was stillborn...and I delivered him. BUT...it was my choice to give it a shot. Personally, abortion is not right for ME...I can't make the choice for others...they should be allowed to do this. Only my opinion.

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If you're not living on the edge, you're wasting space.

Seems to me that since there is some confusion about who and what was said during the deleted thread, the only logical thing would be for Kathy to paste it in another thread so we all may see just how much of a threat Marilyn was and exactly what KTS said. Since she saved it so she would have proof of the "threat" in case Marilyn did a drive by posting, it won't be too hard to post it here to clear everything up. We can all see if KTS is a victim, if Marilyn is a "mc terrorist" etc.........

What do you say, Kathy? All the "I said, she said, etc" can all be cleared up for everyone to see if you would just post it. If what you say is true, then everything is cleared up, see?

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GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

I threatened to pursue legal action if you persisted in harassing me. I stated I had no problem going to the local police department and filing charges for internet harassment. I also advised that yes, I would drag MC into the situation w/ a getting all of their records and the history of all postings.
THAT IS WHAT I THREATENED YOU WITH! Get a grip woman, quit playing the victim and quit telling half truths. Lying by omission is STILL LYING!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I've always been against late-term abortions because of the media portrayal of them. But there was a very lengthy article in the Kansas City Star Saturday about Dr. Tiller and it gave more of a description of what they are. It really makes one stop and think...

The complex life of George Tiller - Kansas City Star

He opened a desk drawer and pulled out a three-ring notebook.

“These are the things we do,” he said, pointing to color snapshots of aborted fetuses. “Hydrocephalus, spina bifida, fused legs, open spine, lethal chromosome abnormality. Nature makes mistakes.”

He flipped the page. “This is the brain coming out of the back of the head. This is a baby that’s allergic to itself. Look at this. There’s all water; no brain whatsoever. The skull’s just completely collapsed. This is a foot coming off the hip. You tell me that if you had one of these, you wouldn’t be devastated.”

I know everyone has their own opinion, but this has opened my eyes to why a late term abortion may be necessary and it has nothing to do with a women just deciding she doesn't want the baby. It's probably not the intention that Scott Roeder had when he murdered Dr. Tiller and brought this all to the spotlight.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

Assuming that most people are familiar with the saying "if God brings you to it, he'll bring you through it" : Has anyone who is against abortions ever stopped to consider that maybe, just maybe abortions have a purpose? Could it be possible?
You know, infants die each and every day from things much worse than abortion. If "right to lifers" focused their efforts on saving those infants, maybe the world would be a better place.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"