Millions of dollars being pumped into American automakers.....all union.

Simple-minded me thinks that unions prevent these industries from being nimble, from being able to cut costs when necessary, and are a big part of the problem. It seems to me that unions drive salaries just too high for the nature for the work and that folks end up living beyond where they should be.

I saw on the news today that Walmart announced new hiring plans and that a union was going to take a run at them....one of the "experts" said that if Wal-mart unionized (outside of China where they apparently already are) that Walmart would be in trouble by 2020.

What do you think?

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

I am for the idea of unions and without them we would have big problems. My Mom told me her Uncle in the early 1900s took his family on vacation when he came back he had no job they told him "if you can afford vacations you don't need this job".
However it seems that unions have become corrupt and power hungry. They are sucking the life out of our industries.
And as far as personal experience five years ago I worked as a caregiver and was a member of the SEIU. I volunteered countless hours and even was elected to a position. When I lost my job due to the client demanding more than I was allowed to provide, the union did NOTHING for me. There was no helping to find another placement "we're not that kind of a union". And she told me"even though you're no longer a member you're still welcome to come in and volunteer". Yeah, right.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

I am a union worker and from my experience, all they do is take our dues and do nothing for us.

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~~~~**Maryann**~~~~

I just got a firm grip on reality....
Now I can strangle it

My dad worked for the Post Office and was required to be in the union. Whenever he tried to go "above and beyond" because he actually cared about his job, he was reprimanded for making others look bad. They also negotiated the same raise across the board for everyone. So, those that attempted to do better at their jobs got that same raise as everyone else. It held everyone down to the same status quo. He hated it.

I think at one time, unions had a place, but now days, I think they've outgrown their usefulness.

Lisa

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"It's not having what you want,
It's wanting what you've got"

I grew up in a UAW household and I don't agree with unions.

I believe that at one time they had their place but like most "systems" (communism, socialism, religion,democracy ect.) they work perfectly when designed but when implemented, interpreted, and governed by humans they break down. Greed and power. Not a good mix.

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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass
It's about learning to dance in the rain.

Unions fought for and got our workers much of the fairness that is enjoyed today in being employed.

I predict that with the current unemployment situation, many employees will become indentured in various ways to simply keep the job they have. At this point, the employer holds all the cards and decides when and where they fall.

I am currently out of the loop regarding unions, have been for some, oh approximate 20+ years, so I wonder if they have outlived their usefulness, however, could have a resurgence in the near future. Those who have jobs now will have to work harder to keep them.

dl

I think they were at some point in time useful and I'm not all that familiar with them, but with my limited experience unions protect lazy workers and drive prices up.

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I've had a Foreman Grill for about six years. I've done about 85% of my cooking on it, but I've never burnt myself. Probably because I don't use it as a pillow.

I worked for a union for 30 years and my DH worked for the same union at another facility here in town for 35 years. As with anything there is good and bad. Unfortunately there are some people that have a bad taste in there mouth regarding unions. In a nutshell, a union is nothing more that a "contract". All businesses are run with some sort of contract. The only difference is, a union facility has a contract that is "agreed" upon by 2 separate parties. The issues are negotiated by both sides and neither side gets everything they want. Both sides are then responsible for upholding various parts of the contract . It's kind of a checks and balances type system.

For the first 15 years of my employment I rarely got my shift of choice or job because of my seniority. For the second 15 years that changed. As I I climbed the seniority ladder I was able to choose my shift and bid on various jobs and with a chance of getting them.

Would it have been fair if I had 25+ years in and then they hired a 20 year old gal that got the best job in the plant on day shift because she was cute and slept with the boss. Oh...h_ll no.

On the other hand, the company held us to things that we weren't crazy about such as we had to work 2 weekends in order to sign off for the third. Yes, it was time and a half for overtime (as it should be). They told us when we could take vacation time because of a week long shut down in the summer and the rest of our vacation time was awarded by seniority. If we were sick and had to miss a day,we were required to bring in a dr's slip when we returned to work. (Now folks, how many times do you go to the dr. when you wake up sick with a bad cold/flu or horrible headache?)

Is every contact perfect? No way, and working for a non-union facility is by no means perfect either. The company solely decided everything about your employment with them and everything is "subject to change" at their discretion. These non-union companies can change things daily and never be held responsible nor do they need to notify you that they are changing things.

I appreciate the fact and am very proud that I worked for a union facility for 30 years and I was very faithful to the company and the union.

Does every business need a union? Not at all. Unions were designed years ago because workers were being treated unfairly and forced to work in poor conditions.

OSHA is no different than a union. They come into facilities regularly to make sure that workers are safe and facilities are up to local, state, and federal codes. Everyone knows that companies wouldn't just make sure that everything was up to code and safe just because they are good caring companies. Corporate greed more often than not is mainly interested in quanity instead of quality.

My DH worked for a company that went Union while he was there and it had its ups and I am sure it had its downs, but never experienced any. With the union his health insurance costs went from $300 a month to $42 a month for the whole family and the coverage was wonderful.

My father was Union all the way, he walked picket lines the whole works and he had a love hate relationship with it.

I've never been part of a union so cant say anything except what I know from DH and Daddy.

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~ Christine ~
Grammie to Trinity Lorayne Jean Keens Born June 9, 2011 Loving my awesome guitar picking 100% Country Boy boyfriend Kenny !
RIP Daddy~ 01/24/1930-06/01/2007 I miss you !
Dont Think you Can .. know you can ~ Jeff Hardy

OSHA is different than a union.

To the best of my experience: *my* union wasn't really concerned with my work conditions. My union just took my dues (out of every check) and didn't do a whole lot for me. Oh, and did I mention---I didn't have a choice on whether I joined the union or not? I had to be a union member to work. The 911 dispatchers were considered part of the Peace Officers union---however, because we weren't sworn officers, we weren't included in the union meetings.

All employees of the state are required to be part of the applicable union. Membership doesn't mean a lot--except that the state can't fire a person when they need to. They have to go through the union to make sure it's ok. Two examples: One of H's co-workers was arrested while at work (she had warrants, and someone tipped the police off...) She wasn't fired.
Second of H's co-workers was arrested for child pornography--federal charges. Because he was "protected" by his union status, he wasn't fired. He was given an FMLA leave, and when that expired (and he couldn't return to work due to being in federal prison!) his position was filled.

I say by and large, unions in the workplace are antiquated beasts who's time is over. Many, many, years ago unions were an effective means to secure a safe workplace, as well as protecting workers in the financial arena.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I think one of the things that keeps non-union companies from walking totally roughshod over their workers is the fear of them unionizing. Without the threat of that, it would not be long before people would be overworked, underpaid, mistreated, the company not following safety guidelines, loss of workers vacation time and sick leave etc. There are bad people in unions and there are ineffective unions. But none of that means that we aren't better off with them than without them. Without the threat, the company heads would be ecstatic. For them it would be time to go back to the good old days. The good old days for them that is.

I've seen letters to the editor extolling the company that the writer works for. How well he/she is paid, what good benefits etc. and all without having to pay union dues. Well he owes that to the unions, because without what they did in the past and the fact of their existence today, he/she would not be getting all those wonderful bennies. The unions may be corrupt but they don't hold a candle to what a big business can do when let off the leash.

Bingo!

My husband works for the auto industry but is not union. He works for Toyota. Our pay and benefits are comparable just a little less than union workers, but we pay no dues and my dh still has a job. Unfortunately many UAW workers do not. The UAW has tried to get in several times and it's gotten ugly on both sides. You'll often hear people bad mouth the union and go on about how much better off we are without them, and to an extent, they're right, but it's only because they fear the UAW getting in.

In a way we have the best of both worlds. We have a better managed company, partly because of the lack of the union. And we have decent wages, benefits and working conditions all because the company will fight like hell to keep the union out. Anyone that believes that we get those things because the company actually cares about their employees is deluded.

There have been a few instances where having the union would have been beneficial, I've seen some ridiculous instances of workers rights getting trampled that would have never happened if the union was involved. But then again how much use is it if the company folds as a result.

So anyway, I guess at this point in time, I'm glad we aren't union, but I'm damn grateful the option exists.

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

My DH's plant is union. Luckily my DH is not. He's salary so no union for him. The people at his plant pushed for a union thinking it would be this great thing and that hasn't happened. They had to negotiate a contract and they LOST things they were getting BEFORE the union stepped in. The company started from 0 and the union started in the heavens. When they finally met the people lost wellness pay, profit sharing, and only ended up with .25 more an hour. But then add in your weekly union dues. People were ticked but they wanted the union so thats what they got.

Jen

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Mom to Jake, Zach & Meghan
SJCC STREAKS FOOTBALL!!
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL!

I don't think it's good that the mining companies busted the unions. I think about that whenever I hear of miners with unsafe equipment or companies going for profits through mountaintop removal.

I have several relatives working for foreign vehicle assembly plants and there is absolutely no pension plan whatsoever. The wages are way below what they should be and health care is only mediocre.

Give them time and they will be going off shore along with everything else. I just heard the other day that the last American made Honda motorcycle will roll off the line before the end of summer. My understanding is, they are moving it off shore as well.

I think foreign companies are only here to exploit us.

My DH's company was taken over 10 years ago by a German/Brazilian company. Good Lord, they wanted to cut everything and didn't seem to understand that we have govt. rules and policys that must be followed. Another attempt to exploit us.

That really sucks. We have a pension plan, not a great one but we also get a company matched 401k. Our health ins. (Anthem BC) is fully paid by the company. We just have to pay a deductible ($200 person / $600 family) and 10% co-pay. They also provide dental, disability and life ins. all paid by the company.

Recently with the economy in the crapper they offered buy-outs (crappy ones) and those that stayed took a cut. DH went down to 36 hour a week. The cut lasted less than 2 months, he just went back to 40 hours last week. But they were able to avoid layoffs here in the U.S.

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

I think that many US companies have eliminated traditional pension plans and have gone to funding more portable retirement funds (like 401k, etc) - at least in the public sector. I'm sure government, military...and apparently unionized companies....still have traditional pension plans. The last three companies that I have worked for have not (non-union).

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

You are not giving India a very good name here.

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

As I posted before, I am union and I am amazed at their thinking. I work for the state of NJ and we were having issues with our governor and our union contract, we were told they were going to hold pickets and everything to keep our current contract because what the gov was proposing wasn't fair. All of a sudden because the vice president was coming here to do something with our gov.and they said he wouldn't cross a picket line, they gave in to a tenetive agreement that we have to vote on. Which IMO is a bad deal. Then we hear commercials on the radio from the same union telling us to vote NO on the agreement (then why did they agree to it in the first place???? Then when you go to their union meetings to see what is going on with the contact and this deal, they aren't saying it straight out but in a round about way they are encouraging you to vote for our current gov because he is a democrat and the republican they say will be bad for the union....(IMO he can't be any worse than what we are stuck with) So I have come to the conclusion that the union will back down instead of fighting for their workers (at least here anyway)

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~~~~**Maryann**~~~~

I just got a firm grip on reality....
Now I can strangle it

I was sent this link by my bil. He works in the aerospace industry and has been keeping an eye on what the unions are up to.

Unions in Debt - WSJ.com

Will we bail them out next?

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Life isn't about waiting for the storm to pass
It's about learning to dance in the rain.