I'm listening to Obama and scratching my head.

He says that the government should offer a health care plan that competes with private sector plans.

He says opponents say the government will control your care but that's not true.

And yet... how can they not? If you have private insurance there are things dictated by your insurance company or you're on your own to pay for non-covered treatments. If the gvt was in charge of the plan you had then by default... they do have control over what tests they will cover, etc.

He also says if you have private insurance you are free to keep your plan.

So what on earth will prevent employers from dumping insurance policies because there is public insurance available? Why would any employer ever begin offering insurance if anyone who came onboard could just get gvt insurance?

Very good points. Just one big step towards socialism. I want to keep my insurance but you are right, why would our small business want to pay for that if they don't have to? I want CHOICE in my healthcare. I don't want the government telling me where, when, who, etc...

Nothing will stop you from keeping the health insurance that you have now. It will be more expensive, but you can certainly keep it.

Oh.

So implementing government health care will drive private sector costs up and put a private sector industry out of business?

Is that what you are saying?

Is that what we want for America? A government that inserts themselves into established industries and puts them out of business?

If so... that sucks.

And seems very un-American to me, to boot.

Seriiously.

Seems like this is happening a lot since Obama has taken office. Let's see, the government now owns banks, insurance companies, car companies, credit card companies.... now Obama wants the health industry too.

Soon there won't be anything left that isn't government owned and government controlled.

I predict a lot of states going red the election cycle. I do not believe the majority of the people want this.

Not here.

Not in America.

I think we will have to wait and see how this all works out. I am on what is considered Gov't Health Care (military plan) and there are a couple different plans you can choose from, HMO style where you supposedly pay least out of pocket - and believe me it was a NIGHTMARE getting the care YOU want. I switched to the plan where you have a deductible and cost share, but, can go where you want. I'm sure there are still things that may not be covered.

I believe all health care is a real mess. Don't know of too many people who don't complain about their health care plan/coverage.

I see taxes going up up up. I've already heard that many people will be disappointed come next April 15th. The "extra" money we were seeing in our pay checks may have some people actually having to pay in come April 15th. I'm trying not to get too upset about things, and see how they go.

I'm not convinced that Health Care is a right we are all entitled to.......

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I'm convinced Health Care is NOT a right. It's just another way to enable poeple. So far, and we'll see what bills I get hit with after my two recent hosptial tests, I'm happy with my insurance. Most people I know are ok with their plans. Maybe we are good state for that.

YES YES YES. I hate where the country is headed under this administration. We need to bring back personal responsibility in all areas not government control. I don't understand why people don't see this as the huge mess it's becoming. (Ok, except for a few smart folks on here!!! )

The government owned banks before Obama took office. We have bought some assets from insurance companies and other banks. But even the money that went into Chrysler and GM came from the TARP funds which were set up by the last administration.

Obama didn't make this mess. Bush did.

You can bet that Obama is going to reform health care.

The United States is the only wealthy, industrialized nation that does not have a universal health care system. I guess all those other countries are socialist, huh?

I don't get this personal responsibility jazz. If that were the case, none of us would have health insurance at all. You wouldn't have a plan. We'd all just pay out of pocket. Why do you make your employer pay part of your insurance? Pay it yourself, you good-for-nothing! The "I've got mine" attitude of the right wing nuts is stunning. They're all against government intervention until they're the ones left out in the cold.

I have excellent health care benefits through my employer, but what happens if they go out of business tomorrow? Too bad, so sad if I get hit by a truck, get cancer, or some other catastrophic illness for which I can't pay out of pocket? I should have been more responsible and not gotten cancer? I should have saved up a few hundred thousand to pay for my healthcare?

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

It's scary to think someone in the political bureaucracy will decide my health care issues based on financial decisions. I want my decisions made by a doctor based on what is best for me.

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The political system is broke and it's a joke.

It's already here in America. Canada has universal health care.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

ANd I've heard nothing good about their health care.

I think a lot of those countries are!!! They certainly aren't better off than we are.
So who's going to pay for everyone to get this universal health care? Are people going to buy into it? What if they don't want to even do that? Will the taxpayers still pick up their tab? This country has enough "giveaways"-section 8, WIC, Title 19, etc...

I don't care if what I pay is called a premium or a tax as long as I have decent and affordable health care, I want you to have it too. The health care systems that work best are in Scandinavia.

The government programs do not reimburse the doctors enough to make it worth their while to even see alot of government patients, that is why they only take a limited amount of Medicaid patients. I know the town I work in 100,000 population and there is NO dentist that will take the Soonercare dental (Medicaid) the closest dentist that will see patients is 30 miles away in another town. They have to take so much write-offs with those type patients that it's just not worth it. If we go to all government insurance, then the doctors will get reimbursed at really low rates and it won't be worth it to alot of them to do it. So we will get doctors that may retire sooner than they have too, because it's not worth it to them to continue working, alot of people not becoming doctors in the first place because the monetary incentives aren't there, doctors who have already got school loans and business loans that can't pay their bills and staff because they are not bringing in enough money with low government reimbursements.

I personally do not want someone telling me where/who I have to get treatment from, I want choice. I understand that alot of people in Canada come to the United States for treatment because their healthcare system is horrid and there are long waits to get appointments. I have heard the same of England. I am always hearing stories in the news about the government programs won't approve this drug or that drug for cancer treatment because those government programs can't afford it and people are just left without treatment because the money is just not there. I am very happy with our private health insurance.

I forgot to add: Nor do I want to have to pay extra taxes for other people to have free medical care. We pay enough taxes every year as it is for other free programs for people like Food Stamps, Medicaid, WIC and who knows what else. I don't have a problem with people who REALLY need it and people who are down on their luck utilizing it, but there are some people that are just lazy and don't want to work that take advantage of these programs also and I do resent having to pay tax dollars for those type people to get benefits.

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Since when is Canada in America? It's not a state. You didn't say we were now discussing continents, Canada is an entirely different country.

dl

Oh man, the right wing is even less informed than I thought! If it weren't so sad, it would be funny.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

I thought she meant that Canadians have to come here because our health care system, which the left is complaing about, it BETTER than Canadas.

Even Canada owns part of GM/Chrysler now.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Canada is in America.
So is Mexico.
And...of course the United States.

We are all in North America....America is a continent (actually two, North and South), not a country.....hence where we got our name.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

Both you and the other poster negected to add "North" at all, or until later.

Canada and Mexico are both in the continent of North America, along with the USA. The other poster simply lumped Canada in with America, which is a common shortening of The United States of America.

It is not common to call Canada America, nor Mexico America.

Even by saying Canada, we (in the USA) do not have the same health care system.

dl

I am not a man, I am not right wing. Now if you can expand with more than this obtuse post, your point might come through.

If, as I considered, you were actually talking about a continent, and not individual countires, then say so.

dl

I must be missing something because I have yet to see the country go red because of Medicare, which is nothing more than government insurance. Have ALL those people be missing the boat on how incredibly socialist America is now?

What about social security, nothing more than government mandated and controlled retirement? Where are your pickets against this?

Every time I hear this BS "American's gone socialist" meme, I want to hurl. I'd bet good money that half the people screeching that are on the public dole in one way or another.

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Reading is Fundamental.

Actually, I've seen polls.67% and up favor government health insurance similar to medicare. And, that's right here in the United States of America. Most Americans support a public health-care plan: Consumer Reports Health Blog

Republicans seem to object to public health care because it doesn't profit from your illness. I really don't think that, in light of the polls and the GOP's opposition to it, that any state will be turning red from offering affordable health care. Kind of looks like the opposite could be true.

Our health care system won't look like Canada's or Great Britain's. It will look like Denmark or Switzerland. (Why is it that Right Wing pundits can only bring up G.B.'s famously screwed up by Margaret Thatcher health care system or that of Canada? They never bring up the systems that work beautifully?)

IMHO most people want somebody else to pay the bill. Recent example? A co-worker fell at home and shattered his heel. Our employer coverage is a 70/30 HMO plan. This man chose not to purchase disability insurance and has the luxury of not paying a dime for his coverage because the employer covers his monthly premium. He just brought me paperwork for gov't assistance to cover the 30% that our insurance doesn't cover, along w/ his $2500 deductible.

When I explained that his coverage was still in effect, I was told, "Yeah, but they don't pay the 30% or the deductible." WTH was he expecting? So as a taxpayer, I'm supposed to pick that up?

This country is getting exactly what it deserves right now. We are a nation of lazy, irresponsible and immoral souls. At this point, I hope the very people who are clamoring for gov't healthcare get it. They deserve nothing less.

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I want to keep ALL of my paycheck and eliminate the pyramid scheme known as Social Security (there is no lockbox ). Do you want the same thing? www.fairtax.org

Others explained it, and I suspect you got it. You were wrong - get over it. Case closed.

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If this is going to be a Christian nation that doesn't help the poor, either we have to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy without condition, and then admit that we just don't want to do it.

- Stephen Colbert.

Canada is not America. It is a separate country. Their health care and ours are not the same.

Case closed, how nice of you to behave like a 3rd grader. Take your toys and go home. You have a nice day too.

dl

trying to figure this out. So, he is responsible for the 30% and $2500 deductible? How is the gov't picking this up?? What program is doing that for him?

I'm right there with you on that last paragraph.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Yes, he is responsible for the $2500 deductible and 30% for anything over that amount.

He req'd wage verification for some sort of assistance program. I was trying really hard to just write down the numbers and get him out of my office, although I did hear the word 'Medicaid' tossed around. I was so angry at the thought of his lack of responsibility that it was difficult to be professional and stay on task.

I'm sorry I don't have more details. Probably already gave TMI.

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I want to keep ALL of my paycheck and eliminate the pyramid scheme known as Social Security (there is no lockbox ). Do you want the same thing? www.fairtax.org

He doesn't understand deductible. Your last paragraph is sadly true. We have conditioned people to stick their hand out and it will be filled.

Just last week, a social worker told someone that they wouldn't have to pay for the services my BUSINESS (not charity) offers. How dare someone make a statement about a business they don't work for? How dare someone promise something that they can't deliver on? Would the social worker go with out her next paycheck? I think not.

And guess who the bad guy was? Yup, me. I became the bad guy when I explained that we are a business, not a charity, we don't receive donations, and the social worked is not our employee. I felt bad for the person, and I explained in as nice of a way as I could. In all, they did understand the facts I gave and realized the travesty of what they had been told.

The mentaility is in full swing. Give me, do for me.

dl

Oh, I think he understood the deductible and the 30% over and above that.

1. He didn't have the money to pay for it.

2. He didn't want to pay for it if someone else would pick up the tab.


I'm sorry you were taken to task for not being a good person, but this type of attitude is typical and will get worse. When nothing else can be taxed, they'll start going after wealth.

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I want to keep ALL of my paycheck and eliminate the pyramid scheme known as Social Security (there is no lockbox ). Do you want the same thing? www.fairtax.org

Don't you mean the Democratic Congress under the Bush Administration made this mess? Because if you want to blame anyone, that's where you should be looking.

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Cecilia

"We must love them both--those whose opinions we share and those whose opinions we reject. For both have labored in the search for truth, and both have helped us in the finding of it."
Saint Thomas Aquinas

You should move to someplace like Saudi Arabia where they are as rigidly moral as you are. They share your values too.

Dubai is interesting too. They even have debtor's prisons!

I think that you would fit right in.

Maybe you should go back to FDR. He's the one who implemented FDIC.

No, I do not mean the Democratic congress, I mean the Bush administration. Frankly this mess was more than 30 years in the making. It was Reagan that taught his fellow Republicans that deficits do not matter.

It's sad to listen to Greenspan now saying, "Who knew that the markets wouldn't self regulate?"

Saudia Arabia, United States. Sinners in either place, so I'd definitely fit either place! I hope my burka doesn't break from the rigidity. I wonder if the gov't pays for my burka?

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I want to keep ALL of my paycheck and eliminate the pyramid scheme known as Social Security (there is no lockbox ). Do you want the same thing? www.fairtax.org

Toodles! I don't think that the government pays for anything in Saudi Arabia. It's a GOP paradise!

Just think however of all the clinical trials that actually save people.... They would be gone.. out the window..
And Dubai.. we have three patients at our hospital that come from dubai to be treated...

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Be careful what you wish for.....

I never said that that the UAE had the best medical care in the world. They are a tiny little country with oil. They do have some horrible pollution problems.

Why would clinical trials go out the window? Your statement is absurd. While fully socialized, French scientists discovered what caused AIDS. The Swiss regularly introduce new medicines.

Big Pharma is happy to sell their products to other countries at prices far below what we here in the US get to pay.

I won't feel sorry for big Pharma if they cannot continue to rake in the obscene profits.

No sympathy from me either.

Over a year ago my SIL was diagnosed with leukemia, the chronic kind. Novartis (sp?) makes the drug for it. $3000 a month was a drugstore quote to my brother in Tennessee. Order from Canada, something like $1200 a month. In India it sells for a fraction of the Canadian price. My brother, at that time was making somewhere in the neighborhood of $60,000 to $70,000, I think. The cost would have been $36,000 a year from Canada, if he had been forced to pay for it himself. That would have left him somewhere around $5000 to $10,000 to live on for the year. Good trick. I believe if you live in India you pay almost nothing for this drug. Why such a discrepancy?

The other problem with them is they do not look for cures. If someone finds a cure for cancer it will probably be buried. You don't make money if people are cured. You make money by selling them drugs for the rest of their life. "Cure" is not in their vocabulary, at least not with the same meaning as I give it.

For the right-wing so that you can be informed.


Health Forum

The important part is the "Transcript: Sen. Barack Obama"
from March 24, 2007
Transcript: Sen. Barack Obama

Obama : "I would hope that we could set up a system that allows those who can go through their employer to access a federal system or a state pool of some sort. But I don't think we're going to be able to eliminate employer coverage immediately. There's going to be potentially some transition process. I can envision a decade out or 15 years out or 20 years out where we've got a much more portable system. Employers still have the option of providing coverage, but many people may find that they get better coverage, or at least coverage that gives them more for health care dollars than they spend outside of their employer. And I think we've got to facilitate that and let individuals make that choice to transition out of employer coverage."

I usually do not like edited chopped youtube..but this one is good.
YouTube - The Public Plan Deception - It's Not About Choice

"Oh yes .. this is going to be so wonderful. What a thrill. But ... the people demand that the government take care of them, and the politicians are only thrilled to respond if it means they can keep their precious positions of power.

Three stores came our way in just the last two days. The first was of a woman in Britain who was diagnosed with a small melanoma – skin cancer. Just a small spot. Problem was, it took her a few months to see a specialist to get it removed. By then it had spread and now she's going through the chemotherapy thing. May not survive. My own experience in this country – you know, the country with the hideous health care system – was somewhat different. The lady what cuts my hairs told me she saw a spot on my noggin that she didn't like. Within one hour I was being looked at by a specialist. But then again, we don't have that wonderful national health care scheme they have in the UK.

Then there a story I saw last night on Fox News. This time it is Canada. You know how much liberals love to brag about Canada. Preliminary tests show that this young teenage girl has a budding tumor in her brain. She's now waiting for an MRI. Can't get an appointment for five weeks. Then, after the MRI, it is going to take another four to five months to get an appointment with a specialist to read the MRI an recommend a course of action. In the meantime this girl is suffering blackouts and cannot go to school. We just don't know what we're missing down here without this wonderful Canadian health care system looking over us.

Back to the UK. Another woman diagnosed with cancer. Her problem isn't a wait. Her problem is that she just flat can't get the operation. They're telling her that at 61 she's just too old. The health care services she seeks will be better spent on someone with longer to live.

But you folks pay no attention to these stores. Rationing won't happen here. There will be no months-long waits to have a melanoma removed. You'll be able to get an MRI within hours, or at least by the next day, if needed. After all .. this is the U.S. government we're talking about. A model of efficiency. Our national health care is just going to be paradise on earth. If you don't believe me you just go check out the emergency room of your local charity hospital. Look at all of the people there waiting to be treated for something that a spoonful of cough medicine or a squirt of Neosporin could cure. That ought to convince you."
Boortz on boortz.com
I think you all need to take a look at what is going on in other countries with this type of healthcare .It is not all a bed of roses! I have lived in a country with socialized medicine, no thank you!!!
Does something need to change... yes! But socialization is not the way to go!

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You know there are some pretty good dandruff shampoos that will help that.

Obama, along with every other official in the world, is aware that the health care system implemented in GB and upon which Canada's system is based is deeply flawed Everyone agrees that these two systems have major, unacceptable, problems.

Please tell me why Republicans go on and on and on about the worst systems in the world as if Obama, or anybody else for that matter, plans to formulate a health care program based on the very worst examples that he can find. Does the repeating of false facts ad nauseum make them true for Republicans?

The plan that Obama et al are working on is similar to those of Denmark and Switzerland.

You can study those systems or continue to have the vapors over false facts. Grow up, folks.

OOOOOOH that scary old SOCIALISM threat again. I think that's pretty much what Medicare is and it works quite well most of the time. And the last I checked it was being run by the government. If you have insurance through your employer, then you are probably limited in what is covered and how much you can spend in some form. So in essence, you are being told what you can fix and what you can't. There are people in rural areas of this country with no medical care within hundreds of miles. That's little different than being put on hold for a treatment, since many can't get to treatment or don't even know they need it since they see doctors so seldom.

Portability of insurance, another scary thing. For decades I have wished for portability on my health insurance. I didn't have it in past years because ours is tied to my husband's former employer and we had to live in an area that is served by that employer unless we wanted to pay more, which we couldn't do. He was retired long before I was eligible for Medicare so we had to stay put in this area until I reached 65.

Rationing is already happening in this country in different forms. Oregon does rationing. Rationing happens. My husband can't get the one prescription medicine that works for him because it costs more than some of the other brands. His doctor has to write a letter of explanation and often he gets turned down anyway and this has been happening since before he went on Medicare. My prescriptions are all generics. I have no problem with that, but if I did, the meds wouldn't be covered. We have no dental care, that's rationing. We have very limited vision care. That's rationing. We have drug rehab care and don't need it. I certainly don't need pregnancy care anymore, but I'm covered for that in the unlikely event a 65 year old woman with no uterus gets preggers. Why can't I exchange the drug rehab and pre-natal for some dental care?

Having been on both company plans and now Medicare, I see little difference except in the monthly cost. But scary it's not. Now not having it would be truly scary.

I wouldn't mind seeing a system where everyone bought their own insurance, and yes you would be required to have coverage. No company coverage, no union coverage. Employers would have to increase salaries by the amount they spend on insurance. Everyone would be able to pick their own and find the coverage that best suited them. There could be some aid for those who couldn't afford basic coverage. But most would have the type of coverage that suited their needs. Insurance companies would have to market to individuals with different needs and there would be more competition for your money. If you work at IBM in Boise and want to move to Indiana and start raising mushrooms instead, then you can keep the same insurance company and the same coverage at the same cost. If you want to opt out of drug rehab coverage and opt into some other coverage you can. If you want to have a different coverage for each spouse you can. There again, your husband normally will not need pregnancy coverage, nor will you need to have your prostate checked.

Wow. I had no idea that I had so much to say on this. I surprise myself at times.

I think a big part of the problem with health care in this country and why its so hard to make changes is because too many people/companies are afraid they just might have to make a little less money on the whole scheme.

If the gov't were to come out with its own insurance, many companies would have to up the ante and provide better coverage/lower prices than the gov't to help entice new workers. Insurance companies would have to offer better coverage at reduced prices in order to compete with the gov't for customers. Doctors/hospitals might have to accept lower fees for their services while still providing quality care.

Now not every doctor/hospital/insurance company is making a nice profit but many, if not most, of them are or they wouldn't still be in the business. And no one is willing to give that up, not even a portion of it.

Sadly, in the end, the consumer is the one who suffers with increased costs of coverage, increased deductibles, poor quality care, etc..

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Jesus SAVES by shopping smartly and using double coupons!

Most companies would be very happy not to have to provide health care period.

The second paragraph you wrote makes no sense whatsoever. Are you saying that doctors are all in it for the money? The ones that I know are not. They'll tell you that they wanted to help people. They'll also tell you that they don't enjoy fighting with insurance companies nor having to pay for staff who do nothing but file claims.

Really,. right now your insurance company decides what tests you'll have, what drugs you can take and what doctors you can see. And, they're all about cutting costs; not getting you well.

In bold: you really think our government will not be doing the same?

I see choice being limited and pushing certain ideas on what is "healthy" on the pretense on keeping cost down.
Smokers, weight issues, etc

I am sorry, but healthcare is just not as good with socialized medicine. I am familiar with German healthcare in particular, and a little of Canada. I don't want to have to wait months to have a test done for breast cancer, I don't want to go to the emergency room in my town and find there is not a doctor qualified to see my child, I don't want to have my options limited.
One of the biggest problems I see right now is that Americans are sue happy and the insurance premiums doctors now have to pay is outrageous. Healthcare needs to be fixed. Give me choices, but don't force your choices on me. I am a big girl and capable of making up my own mind about who I want to see, what I want to have done, and how much I am willing to pay.

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We won't be socializing medicine. We are not going to take over the hospitals, big pharma, and make doctors government employees.

That's what socialized medicine would be and nobody anywhere is talking about bringing socialized medicine to this country except for the right wing punditry.