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07-18-2008, 06:43 AM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Si, Se Puede!
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Rep Power: 82 | | | Bush & co trying to get around Roe v Wade
From Huffington Post: Quote: |
The New York Times reports that the Bush Administration's Department of Health and Human Services is drafting a rule that would place new restrictions on domestic family planning programs. While current law allows health care providers and professionals to refuse to provide abortions based on their religious beliefs, this provision would threaten the funding of organizations and health facilities if they do not hire people who would refuse to provide birth control and defines abortion so broadly that it would include many types of birth control, including oral contraception.
| http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/07/16/b...n_n_113199.html
Because the only rights a woman needs is the right to be barefoot. 
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07-18-2008, 08:40 PM
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Why am I not even the teensiest bit surprised?...... 
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07-20-2008, 09:29 AM
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I'm not surprised, but I am SHOCKED this isn't garnering more attention on the news. To try and make it so that there HAVE to be people who refuse to provide birth control? WHAT THE HELL is this brain challenged admin thinking? They complain about welfare now, are they TRYING to up the number of kids and other women who get on it? Are they trying to up the number of abortions??!!!
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus |
07-20-2008, 09:33 AM
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Does anyone know if this has to pass the house first?
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus |
07-20-2008, 09:48 AM
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does anyone know where I can read about this other than on Nancy Pelosi's sight??? I googled the HHS website and couldn't find anything.
thanks.
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07-20-2008, 09:59 AM
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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus |
07-20-2008, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jaded  | Yes, I'm quite familiar with Google, but, I am looking for the actual wording of the bill or whatever is being threatened. I did, however find this little snippet Iowa Independent I did not dig into it, but, I thought Obama was pro choice? Here is saying he is not against the state denying women a late term abortion. Do I have that right?
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07-20-2008, 12:43 PM
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Originally Posted by jaded Does anyone know if this has to pass the house first? | I'm not certain, but I think this is an internal proposal and not up for law. In other words, this may be a proposal that Bush wants to implement for the Department of Health and Human Services. Because it is an independent agency of the executive branch, I think their policies are implemented internally and not voted on in the House & Senate. |
07-20-2008, 02:02 PM
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AWESOME!!!!!! I hope it passes!!! IUD's and the pill are both abortifacients. Many people on the pill have concevied and wil never even know it. No need to flame me. I have a right ot my opinion.
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07-20-2008, 02:46 PM
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I'm not a woman. My wife and kids may call me numerous things but I'm not a woman. I understand why women fight for this issue. I happen to believe that life, whole, meaningful, protected, sacred -- begins at conception. There is just no other, IMHO, reasonable place to draw the line, therefore anything that protects said life is a good thing. The line between person hood and non-person hood must be drawn somewhere. Again, I understand the differences of opinion regarding this matter, it just happens to be one I care about deeply. If we as a society, fail to protect those most unable to protect themselves, we have no right to call our society -- civilization. I understand the difference of opinion when it comes to believing when a life is a life. I happen to draw the line at the only clearly definable boundary, others are free to choose a different point.
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07-20-2008, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by kathytheshopper AWESOME!!!!!! I hope it passes!!! IUD's and the pill are both abortifacients. Many people on the pill have concevied and wil never even know it. No need to flame me. I have a right ot my opinion. | It isn't a question of opinion. And, your opinion is based on facts of how some forms of birth control work and your belief once an egg is fertilized, the mother no longer has a say in the outcome.
The question is a policy of potentially denying access to basic healthcare based on beliefs or opinion of what control a woman has over her body that are not shared by all, much less a majority.
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Last edited by nightowlrn; 07-20-2008 at 03:43 PM.
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07-20-2008, 05:25 PM
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I love you Greg!!! Well stated!!!
Nightowlrn, yes that is correct about fertilization!!!
I don't think it is denying basic healthcare. Birth control and everything else along that line are not basic humnar rights to me.
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07-20-2008, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by kathytheshopper I love you Greg!!! Well stated!!!
Nightowlrn, yes that is correct about fertilization!!!
I don't think it is denying basic healthcare. Birth control and everything else along that line are not basic humnar rights to me. | Perhaps you want to read Griswold v. Connecticut and then get back to us on that ....
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07-20-2008, 08:55 PM
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Originally Posted by kathytheshopper I love you Greg!!! Well stated!!!
Nightowlrn, yes that is correct about fertilization!!!
I don't think it is denying basic healthcare. Birth control and everything else along that line are not basic humnar rights to me. | I want to be sure I have this correctly....you feel that birth control is a form of abortion, as in it prevents a embryo/fetus from developing??
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I love Hockey Moms! You know the difference between a Hockey Mom and a Pit Bull???? LIPSTICK!!! Gov. Sara Palin
BALLS...don't have some? GET SOME!!
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07-20-2008, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by allinaugust I want to be sure I have this correctly....you feel that birth control is a form of abortion, as in it prevents a embryo/fetus from developing?? |
I think I can speak here - not all birth control stops the egg from fertilizing. What it does then is it prevents a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall.
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"I have to tell you, he [Senator Obama] is a decent person, a person that you do not have to be scared [of] as president of the United States." Senator John McCain, October 10, 2008. |
07-20-2008, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by nightowlrn I think I can speak here - not all birth control stops the egg from fertilizing. What it does then is it prevents a fertilized egg from attaching to the uterine wall. | Yep, that's correct.
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07-21-2008, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by kathytheshopper Yep, that's correct. | Ok, can you please clarify for me. Do you think ALL types of birth control stop a potential life, and therefore, you liken them to abortion??
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I love Hockey Moms! You know the difference between a Hockey Mom and a Pit Bull???? LIPSTICK!!! Gov. Sara Palin
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07-21-2008, 09:26 AM
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I find it appalling that someone else thinks they have ANY say in what a woman does with her own body. I am so sick of hearing about how wrong abortion is and now to try to deny birth control based on religious beliefs. CRAZY. Not all people have the same religious beliefs so how in the world is it ok to push your beliefs on someone else. As a Catholic I am embarrased about this. I feel it's a woman's choice. I personally wouldn't have an abortion but I would NEVER tell someone else NOT to or make them feel bad about it. EVER that is a persons OWN decision. And don't even get me started about the birth control. Who in the world do you expect to raise and financially support all the unwanted babies who could come from that. I am proud to admit that I use birth control. I am being responsible and only having the children that we can afford to raise and take care of. I am in charge of my body and NO ONE needs to tell me what to do in that respect.
Jen 
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07-21-2008, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by kathytheshopper AWESOME!!!!!! I hope it passes!!! IUD's and the pill are both abortifacients. Many people on the pill have concevied and wil never even know it. No need to flame me. I have a right ot my opinion. | A lot of people do not have any idea of how the pill and other birth control methods actually work. No surprise most do not understand how other medicines works either. (blood pressure, etc)
It is best to do your own research and not just follow blindly.
Here is a link to a well known book Does the Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions? Part 1 |
07-21-2008, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by jazame I find it appalling that someone else thinks they have ANY say in what a woman does with her own body. I am so sick of hearing about how wrong abortion is and now to try to deny birth control based on religious beliefs. CRAZY. Not all people have the same religious beliefs so how in the world is it ok to push your beliefs on someone else. As a Catholic I am embarrased about this. I feel it's a woman's choice. I personally wouldn't have an abortion but I would NEVER tell someone else NOT to or make them feel bad about it. EVER that is a persons OWN decision. And don't even get me started about the birth control. Who in the world do you expect to raise and financially support all the unwanted babies who could come from that. I am proud to admit that I use birth control. I am being responsible and only having the children that we can afford to raise and take care of. I am in charge of my body and NO ONE needs to tell me what to do in that respect.
Jen | I don't know you....but I think I love you! 
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07-21-2008, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by forrestlayne A lot of people do not have any idea of how the pill and other birth control methods actually work. No surprise most do not understand how other medicines works either. (blood pressure, etc)
It is best to do your own research and not just follow blindly.
Here is a link to a well known book Does the Birth Control Pill Cause Abortions? Part 1 | Here is something I found when I googled "how does the birth control pill work" : How Does the Birth Control Pill Work? Question: How Does the Birth Control Pill Work? Answer: Birth control pills, or oral contraceptives, contain hormones that suppress ovulation. During ovulation an egg is released from the ovaries, without ovulation there is no egg to be fertilized and pregnancy cannot occur. There are 2 types of birth control pills -- the combined pill and the Minipill. The combined pill contains both estrogen and progestin, while the Minipill contains only progestin.
The progestin in the Minipill may prevent ovulation; however it may not do this reliably each month. The Minipill works further by thickening the mucous around the cervix and preventing sperm from entering the uterus. The lining of the uterus is also affected in a way that prevents fertilized eggs from implanting into the wall of the uterus. The Minipill is taken every day. You may not have a period while taking the Minipill, if you do have periods that means you are still ovulating and your risk for pregnancy occuring is greater.
Combination birth control pills come in either 21 or 28-day packs. You take one pill each day at the same time for 21 days. If you have a 21-day pack, you stop taking birth control pills for 7 days at the end of the pack. If you are taking a 28-day pack, you continue taking pills every day, the last 7 non-hormonal pills serve as a reminder to help you remember to take your pill at the same time every day. Your period will occur during the week you take the 7 reminder pills.
I am confused on how a woman can get pregnant while properly taking the pill??? Key word here, PROPERLY.
This is where I disagree with the Republican platform. I am Pro Choice. My body, my choice.
Kathy, do you consider a condom a type of abortion as well???
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I love Hockey Moms! You know the difference between a Hockey Mom and a Pit Bull???? LIPSTICK!!! Gov. Sara Palin
BALLS...don't have some? GET SOME!!
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07-21-2008, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by marilynk I don't know you....but I think I love you! | Back off, I love her more!
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