Posts are open and unmoderated, and do not necessarily reflect the views of MyCoupons. | Obscene, abusive, silly, or annoying remarks may be deleted, but the fact that particular comments remain on the site in no way constitutes an endorsement of their views by MyCoupons. | Posts that contain phone numbers, addresses, or other personal information will also be deleted. | REMEMBER: posting at MyCoupons is a privilege, not a right. Abuse that privilege, and your account may be banned. | | | | | You are not currently logged in. | | | | | | * ELECTION 2008 * America's Choice - 'E08' This board is for discussion of the candidates and issues in our political process. Our National Election is on November 4, 2008 to select a new President, Vice President, and many state and local officials. Left, Right, or Center ~ You are All Welcome Here! So let’s hear your comments and opinions… | 
08-04-2008, 05:09 PM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 13,802
Rep Power: 71 | | | Captain McLiar A list of McCain's lies and flip flops, with citations. Quote:
Signing of the GI Bill: Now enthusiastically for it... after it passed. Previously attacked the Webb Bill. Didn't even bother to vote on it. Robert Greenwald's Brave New Films...
Campaign reform: On political reform, McCain last January opposed a grassroots lobbying bill he once supported. In 2006, the "New York Sun" reported that his presidential ambitions led McCain to reverse his support of a campaign financial bill called McCain/Feingold. The New York Sun...
Alien Minors Act/Immigration: Last October he said he would vote against the development, relief and education for Alien Miners Act that he co-sponsored, and then said he would vote against an immigration bill that he introduced. YouTube - Broadcast Yourself....
Gay Marriage: In 2006, he said on "HARDBALL," quote, I think that gay marriage should be allowed. Then after the commercial break he added, I do not believe that gay marriages should be legal. YouTube - Broadcast Yourself....
Abortion: On abortion, 1999, publicly supporting Roe v. Wade, privately opposing it in a letter to the National Right to Life Committee. In the 2000 debates, he would change the GOP platform to permit exceptions for rape, incest, the life of the mother. May 2007, "flipped", ABCNews.com reported. ABC News: Online news, breaking news, feature stories and more...
Nuclear Waste: No Storing Nuclear waste at Yucca mountain earlier..now flipped Las Vegas Sun...
Negotiating with Kim Jong-Il: Negotiating with Kim Jong-Il not acceptable until President Bush did it last week. bondibox.newsvine.com - bondibox...
Negotiating with Cuba/Castro: With Fidel Castro acceptable in 2000, not 2008. MySpaceTV Videos: Watch and share your favorite videos, trailers, movies, tv shows, music videos, and clips...
Negotiating with Hamas/Terrorists: ...with terrorists appropriate when Colin Powell went to Syria and in 2006 when McCain said sooner or later we‘ll talk to Hamas, but not appropriate now re: Obama's willingness to use diplomacy. bondibox.newsvine.com - bondibox...
Pakistan: Unilateral action against suspected terrorists in Pakistan; "Confused leadership" when Obama suggested it, not when Bush did it. Crooks and Liars...
Warrantless Wire-taps: Six months ago, presidents had to obey the law, not anymore. The New York Times - Breaking News, World News & Multimedia...
Torture: Torture detainees, no way, except for the CIA. Hold them indefinitely, wrong in 2003, the right move in 2008. YouTube - Broadcast Yourself....
Iraq War: The Iraq war, the right course 2004, stay the course 2005. Today, McCain has always been a Rumsfeld critic. Think Progress Home Page...
Tax Cuts: In 2001, he could not in good conscious support them. Now he can. YouTube - Broadcast Yourself....
Estate Tax: 2006, "I agree with President Roosevelt who created it". In 2008, "most unfair". Crooks and Liars...
Privatizing Social Security: This month not for privatizing Social Security, never has been. In 2004, he "didn‘t see how benefits will last without it". YouTube - Broadcast Yourself....
Balanced Budget: In February, promised a balanced budget in four years by April, make that eight years. PERRspectives: Bringing Light to Darkness...
Windfall Profits Tax: In May, glad to look at the windfall profits tax. By June, that was Jimmy Carter's big idea. Flip-Flop Express...
Offshore Drilling: In 2000, no new off shore drilling. Last month, it would take years to develop. This month, very helpful in the short term. Think Progress Home Page...
Coyotes..Bush Big Time Fund Raisers: The Bush fund-raisers McCain called coyotes breaking the law in 2000. By 2006, they were co-chairing McCain fund-raisers. ABC News: Online news, breaking news, feature stories and more...
"Agents of Intolerance": Buddy Jerry Falwell...an "agent of intolerance in 2000". Kissed Falwell's ass in 2007... The Reverend Hagee and Parsley in, then out this year alone. YouTube - Broadcast Yourself....
Martin Luther King Holiday: In 1983, opposed Martin Luther King Day. Today, all for it. Boston.com... | Many, many more listed at Link
Some of you won't like the link. That doesn't make the list of lies and reversals any shorter.
__________________ Jesus was a community organizer. | 
08-05-2008, 09:27 AM
| | Master | | Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,568
Rep Power: 40 | | The Captain also has fibbed a bit regarding his support of veterans. Quote:
McCain's silence on the GI Bill may surprise some observers, given the senator's six years behind bars as a former prisoner of war in North Vietnam. On the campaign trail, McCain speaks almost daily about "supporting the troops."
But organizations that have followed the senator's voting record have noted that McCain's actions are rarely in line with the interests of veterans' organizations. In 2006, Iraq and Afghanistan Veterans of America gave Senator McCain a failing grade of "D" based on his voting record.
The same year, McCain supported the interests of the Disabled American Veterans just 20 percent of the time. The main reason for the low scores is a consistent pattern by Senator McCain of voting against appropriating money for veterans' health care and disability payments.
| Vets to McCain: Back New GI BIll
All talk and no action or as they say about the current CIC, all hat no cattle.  | 
08-05-2008, 04:24 PM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 13,802
Rep Power: 71 | | | Well, to his credit, McCain didn't need all those veterans' benefits once he ditched the old ball and chain and married his rich trophy wife. Maybe he just wanted to encourage other vets to follow his lead.
__________________ Jesus was a community organizer. | 
08-05-2008, 05:05 PM
| | Master | | Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,568
Rep Power: 40 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by truble2301 Well, to his credit, McCain didn't need all those veterans' benefits once he ditched the old ball and chain and married his rich trophy wife. Maybe he just wanted to encourage other vets to follow his lead. |
Captain is collecting a little over $58,000 a year in veteran's benefits and another $20,000+ a year in social security benefits. He deserves every penny but if it weren't for Mrs. Captain's fortune he would likely be a bit less cavalier about increasing benefits for his fellow veterans. Too few heiresses, too many vets. 
Last edited by ana21 : 08-05-2008 at 05:16 PM.
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08-05-2008, 05:25 PM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,779
Rep Power: 81 | | | Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah...... | 
08-05-2008, 05:29 PM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 13,802
Rep Power: 71 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by kathytheshopper Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah, Blah...... | Yes, I figured that would be the response. But can you disprove any of the allegations against McSame?
__________________ Jesus was a community organizer. | 
08-05-2008, 06:19 PM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: VA
Posts: 3,481
Rep Power: 95 | | Hey Kathy (my 'chum')
Sounds like gossiping over the fence.  Wonder if they have curlers in their hair?
__________________ "Many people lose their tempers merely from seeing you keep yours..." | 
08-05-2008, 06:55 PM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Jun 2000 Location: Si, Se Puede!
Posts: 6,201
Rep Power: 81 | | | So stating facts sounds like gossiping to you, but quoting the Enquirer doesn't? Sheesh.
Well, I guess if you can't refute, you try to redirect.
__________________ "Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus | 
08-05-2008, 07:25 PM
| | Master | | Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,568
Rep Power: 40 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2twins2 Hey Kathy (my 'chum')
Sounds like gossiping over the fence.  Wonder if they have curlers in their hair? | Sigh, loosen up those curlers. Gossiping is what one does when one posts a hurtful "rumor" for the express purpose of being able to say "Well, if it's true -- Shame on him!". Your chum then says: "If it's true it's totally disgusting." Mission accomplished, you've succeeded in spreading a particularly hurtful piece of information (based on fact or not) and shown all of us how upright and moral you are.
I'm by no means above being snarky and mean but I try very hard to keep hypocrisy to a minimum.
Hyprocrite:
IN BRIEF: A person who pretends to be good, pious or sympathetic without really being so.
As another poster asked, please do post any information you may have to refute the allegations about Senator McCain. Surely blah, blah, blah, isn't the best we can expect from you and/or chum is it?
Last edited by ana21 : 08-05-2008 at 07:50 PM.
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08-05-2008, 08:09 PM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,779
Rep Power: 81 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by mom2twins2 Hey Kathy (my 'chum')
Sounds like gossiping over the fence.  Wonder if they have curlers in their hair? | I wonder what color hair trolls actually have? | 
08-05-2008, 08:26 PM
| | Master | | Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,568
Rep Power: 40 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by kathytheshopper I wonder what color hair trolls actually have? |  What's the matter, all your mirrors broken? | 
08-05-2008, 08:50 PM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,779
Rep Power: 81 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by ana21  What's the matter, all your mirrors broken? | That's the best you can do????? lol lol lol | 
08-05-2008, 09:18 PM
| | Master | | Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,568
Rep Power: 40 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by kathytheshopper That's the best you can do????? lol lol lol | No, but I thought appropriate response to a poster who thinks blah, blah, blah, blah, blah is clever --
Last edited by ana21 : 08-05-2008 at 09:38 PM.
Reason: Forgot two blahs
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08-05-2008, 09:34 PM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 5,135
Rep Power: 93 | | | If you ignore certain posters/do not respond to them, you take away their power. If the best response a person can give is "blah, blah, blah..." or "I have to keep my thoughts simple for you"; do you really think that they want to have a meaningful discussion?
By engaging these types of posters, you (the general you) allow them to be part of the conversation and bring in their negativity or spin.
Instead of "if you build it, they will come", try thinking "If I ignore them they will go away". It works for me.
This is directed at no one in particular...just an observation.
__________________ "In life it is so hard to know which bridges to cross and which bridges to burn....." | 
08-05-2008, 09:41 PM
| | Master | | Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,568
Rep Power: 40 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by marilynk If you ignore certain posters/do not respond to them, you take away their power. If the best response a person can give is "blah, blah, blah..." or "I have to keep my thoughts simple for you"; do you really think that they want to have a meaningful discussion?
By engaging these types of posters, you (the general you) allow them to be part of the conversation and bring in their negativity or spin.
Instead of "if you build it, they will come", try thinking "If I ignore them they will go away". It works for me.
This is directed at no one in particular...just an observation. |
You're right, that was a tacky thing to say and I edited it. My apologies. | 
08-05-2008, 09:45 PM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: The OTHER Castle
Posts: 5,935
Rep Power: 103 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by ana21 Captain is collecting a little over $58,000 a year in veteran's benefits and another $20,000+ a year in social security benefits. He deserves every penny but if it weren't for Mrs. Captain's fortune he would likely be a bit less cavalier about increasing benefits for his fellow veterans. Too few heiresses, too many vets.  |
I'm confused by this. Do you mean Veteran's benefits should NOT be increased??
__________________ I love Hockey Moms! You know the difference between a Hockey Mom and a Pit Bull???? LIPSTICK!!! Gov. Sara Palin
BALLS...don't have some? GET SOME!! TLJ Women United in Spirit!!! | 
08-05-2008, 10:16 PM
| | Master | | Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,568
Rep Power: 40 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by allinaugust I'm confused by this. Do you mean Veteran's benefits should NOT be increased?? | No, I meant they should be increased. I used cavalier under its definition of "haughty disregard for others". Should the sentence have read "He deserves every penny but if it weren't for Mrs. Captain's fortune he would likely be a bit less cavalier about not increasing benefits for his fellow veterans."? Maybe shouldn't have used cavalier or maybe it's just an awkward sentence.  | 
08-05-2008, 11:10 PM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,779
Rep Power: 81 | | THe whole topic of this post, imho, is to bash McCain. The reason I posted blah, blah, blah is because it didn't look like a request for an unbiased discussion but an assault on McCain. If you are going to call him McLiar as the topic header do you really think we are all going to view this as a request for a mature discussion of issues and/or candidates??? I think not.
John McCain has a long history of working for our country. That produces a huge record. The Martin Luther King holdiay quote was from 1983-25 YEARS ago. Has your perspective on issues ever changed in the last 25 years???? I know mine have. Being against abortion but allowing it for cases of rape is not necessarily flip-flopping. Lots of people feel this way. Obama doesn't have decades of political experience to be able to come up with such a laundry list as McCains. And I know some of those topic lines are taken out of context.
Are there any of you out there who have not changed your mind on some topics, issues, etc... in the last 25 years??????
So if there are future topics with such headers as Captain McLiar you can expect anyother post similar to blah, blah, blah........  | 
08-05-2008, 11:14 PM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,779
Rep Power: 81 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by truble2301 Well, to his credit, McCain didn't need all those veterans' benefits once he ditched the old ball and chain and married his rich trophy wife. Maybe he just wanted to encourage other vets to follow his lead. | Yep, I can see by this entry that you seriously wanted to discuss the issues not make rude comments, etc..... By the way, since you KNOW so much maybe you can tell us all about his personal life behind closed doors.....so his first wife was a ball and chain huh?? Nice thing to say. And he's been married to his "trophy" wife for how long now???? Seems to be working to me. But obviously you have intimate details of his marriages. More power to ya! | 
08-05-2008, 11:37 PM
| | Master | | Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,126
Rep Power: 46 | | After 25 years a position change is allowed.
It's when a position that was held six months ago suddenly changes once one is running for President that it's officially called a 'flip-flop.'  | 
08-06-2008, 12:23 AM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,779
Rep Power: 81 | | Quote:
Originally Posted by wowitsdark After 25 years a position change is allowed.
It's when a position that was held six months ago suddenly changes once one is running for President that it's officially called a 'flip-flop.'  | Ahhh yes, like Obama's been doing.......... | 
08-06-2008, 12:31 AM
|  | Ultimate Member | | Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Northern Californi
Posts: 1,845
Rep Power: 43 | | | I will say that both candidates are guilty of flip-flops during this campaign period.....as do the majority of candidates when they feel that they have to moderate or balance their previously held and expressed views to reach and capture those votes they need and want. Both are guilty of this..and will probably have more changes in their expressed views before this is all over. Sad, but true.
__________________ "Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich
"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous
"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity
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08-06-2008, 01:54 AM
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Rep Power: 81 | | | | |