Looks like Chicago needs their community organizer back.

cbs2chicago.com - Nearly 125 Shot Dead In Chicago Over Summer

By all accounts, Obama's work as a community organizer had a profound impact on Obama himself.

It doesn't appear, sadly, that the communities have enjoyed long-term impact from him.

A little point of reference would be good. In 2006, the population of Chicago was over 2.8 million. The number might have gone up or down slightly, but it's a starting point. The number of troops in Iraq is about 140,000.

You do the math.

Another perspective might be if we weren't spending $12 billion a month in Iraq we would have some money to ... oh nevermind ...

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Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

As you may (or may not) know--I'm not an Obama fan;

But, you know what? I think your last statement is such a low blow and shows a huge amount of ignorance (or stupidity, or naivity--not really sure).

Inner cities neighborhoods are known to be dangerous--always have been, and probably will always be.
Lots of people crammed into small areas. Usually those people are economically in the "lower class"--there is a direct correlation btwn poverty and violence. I really wish people would just accept the fact that you can argue FACTS without resorting to nonsense.

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"In life it is so hard to know which bridges to cross and which bridges to burn....."

I agree 100%

Real issues are boring. Real issues rarely divide us, they tend to bring us together. Because at the root of all the gamesmanship we really all have the countries best interests at heart, at least I think we do.

In order for us to show why we are smarter or why our side is right and the other is wrong we must divide. It is sad really, but that is the way it is.

I've said it before, politicians are all on the same side and it's not OURS! Rebubs or Dems. . .it's the same bs. No real change will ever come of it. Real change comes from the grassroots; people who have a true vested interest in their cause.

That being said, this is also a very ignorant thing to say. . .

Another perspective might be if we weren't spending $12 billion a month in Iraq we would have some money to ... oh nevermind ...

I watched the PBS Wide Angle episode on Iraqi refugees. Good stuff. And honestly a lot more pertinent to the American people than the political smoke and mirrors drivel we've been being spoon-fed lately; Palin's daughter is pregnant and Barrack's pastor is an *******, blah, blah, blah!. Here's the link:

http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/ep...-episode/2827/

I would also suggest watching Morgan Spurlock's Where in the World is Osama Bin Laden.

If you really think that we should just bring that 12 billion a month back to the states and leave a vaccuum in Iraq like we did in Afghanastan, you are living in a fantasy world. Al qaeda is real and they prey on the impoverished and disenfranchised with their extremist drivel. I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth. . . BUT maybe the correct thing would have been to say let's make sure that money is being spent wisely in Iraq. I could agree to that.

Spending money wisely in Iraq, IMO, means spending no money in Iraq.

That's OK, you can call me "very ignorant," too, I can live with it.

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Yes We Did.

So what your saying is that we shouldn't do anything for the Iraqi's that are impoverished, disenfranchised, living as refugees in countries like Syria and Jordan, where they can't even work? We should just ignore their plight and let them fall prey to extremist rhetoric? Wow! I'll say it. . .that's very ignorant.

Sorry - I was trying to go for brevity, which is not my strong suit!

I agree - change in inner city neighborhoods is very hard to pull of, at least on a permament basis.

His theme is based on the notion that he has this ability to bring dramatic change.

It doesn't appear that at least in that particular job role he held in the past that he effected change that created an amazing, sweeping difference in the lives of the neighborhoods in which he was working.

Absolutely - it's a huge, systemic problem, and perhaps to *expect* that he would have mobilized people to have a complete societal revolution is a next-to-impossible expectation.

But he uses his job history as part of the proof that he is Mr. Change.

And yet... it doesn't look like anything really *changed* all that much because of his presence. At least, not in a lasting way.

And no, I'm not under the impression that it was solely his responsiblity to completely overhaul the rougher areas of Chicago, and certainly don't blame him for the way things were or are.

But it would be nice to see where he left his mark - an indelible mark of accomplishment - somewhere, especially if he is going to use that former job role to 'sell himself' to the American people as someone who *changes* things.

ETA: The two big accomplishments of his I've heard cited for his efforts were that he got a job training center moved closer to the neighborhoods where people needed training, and got something done regarding asbestos inspections. So I guess the real question - and I don't have the answer for it - is what happened to the employment rate in the areas he worked in the years following the move of the training center.

Actually, <gasp> I agree with Obama and O'R. on this one.

Iraq has about $79 BILLION in oil revenues, thanks to us.

I think investing in those refugees would be a great use of some of that cash.

truble--whether you agree w/ the war, or agree with WHY we are there, you cannot ignore the fact that we are there! Should we just pull every single person out of there and pull every bit of "our" money out of there--I believe that would create a situation that literally and figuratively would blow up in our faces.

As much as I would like to see our troops deployed elsewhere and doing other things--at this point in the road it would be incredibly stupid to pull out overnight.

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"In life it is so hard to know which bridges to cross and which bridges to burn....."

OK, I'm very ignorant. Somehow, you thinking that of me doesn't bother me at all.

I'm thinking of what 12 billion a month could do for the plight of impoverished Americans. As McCain says: Country First.

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Yes We Did.

Gee, they are now calling the Wasillia the Meth Capitol of Alaska.

By using your logic above, Palin was just as good as Obama over the last couple of years....

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

Whether we leave next year or 100 years from now, there will be civil unrest between Sunni and Shia. I would be very surprised if the Sunni came out on top. It is also inevitable that Iraq will ally itself with Iran since they are the only two Shia dominated countries. Most of those who fled the country are Sunni and comprise most of the middle class, the doctors, dentists and people with the education and know how. I doubt they'll be able to return any time soon. Their homes have been occupied by others.

Most are try to emmigrate. Sweden has been very generous but recently had to close its borders. Refugees could work in Syria, but, Syria is a country with few resources and there are no jobs. They too have been generous bu setting up schools and providing food and medical care. They too have had to close their borders. Jordan has not been generous. They accepted refugees with sufficient funds to pay there own way and, yes, they had to prove it. They are not allowed to work and will more than likely be kicked out after they run through their funds. I don't see a solution here unless we take the refugees ourselves and we've been less than accomodating in this regard.

We cannot stay forever. We're practically bankrupt. You have to face the fact that they have asked us to leave and insist upon a time line similar to what Obama has proposed. They have awarded their oil contracts and development rights to China. The Kurdish area has pretty much declared itself independent of Iraq and entered into a partnership with Norway. We will not benefit from oil.

We took the lid of Pandora's box and we can't put it back.

Oh my, is it topsy turvy day? And I agree with you on this. But don't tell anyone, I might lose my card as a "Wild Eyed Liberal."

To be honest, I don't have time today to watch the PBS video but I did find this information online about the placement of Iraqi refugees. Note this information is from September 2007.

Iraqi Refugees and Internally Displaced Persons (IDPs)

Additional information about Iraqi resettlement in the US:

Refugees International: The Iraqi Displacement Crisis

64% if the American people, ignorant all, don't support the Iraqi war (invasion). That figure has pretty much remained the same over the last 2 years.

Iraq

I agree that the refugee problem is horrific and we should take responsibility for it IMO but as you can see by the above we are not. Who "created" a situation where the American people were convinced we needed to invade Iraq, who is now not taking responsibility for caring for the victims of that invasion (Iraqi and American IMO) -- Mr. Bush. Who supported the invasion, who apparently is willing to continue the path we are in, who has no plan that I could find to help with the refugee problem -- may I present Senator McCain.

To be honest Senator Obama hasn't said a lot about the situation but he has addressed it:

Hanna Ingber Win: Obama, McCain Skirt Iraqi Refugee Issue

So my ignorant self thinks there is plenty more we could be doing to help the refugee situation in Iraq and our own country with $12 billion a month.

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Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

An interesting article

Why pulling out of Iraq won't save money - Jul. 9, 2008

"End the war, save money that can be used for other purposes. That's effectively how both John McCain and Barack Obama frame the fiscal outcome of drawing down troops in Iraq.
It sounds right, but federal budget experts say that to arrive at that conclusion requires a bit of fairy-tale math.

"They kind of create money out of thin air," said Maya MacGuineas, president of the Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget.

Here's what she means: Washington is charging the cost of the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan to its national credit card. So far, the government has spent between $700 billion and $800 billion since 2001. Simply deciding to spend less money the government doesn't have will not free up real money to pay down the current deficit or help pay for new endeavors.

"We'll be borrowing less, but we'll still be borrowing," MacGuineas said.

And for awhile, the country may even end up borrowing more because of the additional costs of bringing troops and equipment home while continuing to prosecute the war at some level. So depending on the extent of the drawdown and the timing, the deficit may actually go up initially.
But that's not the initial impression that the average voter might get from the way the campaigns present the issue."

....Skipping to the end of the article

"Generally speaking, McCain has said he opposes committing to a timetable for withdrawal. Obama says he thinks that's what Americans and Iraqis want, although he would balance that desire with "all the factors that go into American security." He also has said, "We've got to get more troops in Afghanistan."

All that means is there's no way to gauge yet how much either candidate would reduce war spending over the long-run, and how much so-called "savings" they would realize. But that's not stopping them from banking on the idea to help sell their other proposals to voters."

It's hard to disagree with the fact that we will be spending money for years regardless of when we bring our troops home. This is a poor analogy, but when the sink is overflowing, don't you think you should shut the water off asap? Thinking Senator Obama, who pretty much wants to shut the water off quickly, will have a lower "repair bill" then Senator McCain who is having trouble locating the shut-off valve.

Out of curiousity do you not agree with Mr. Paul's view that we should get out of Iraq?

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Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

This is an extremely silly comparison.

To anyone who has done volunteer work, do you really expect to see your efforts magnified large? If you have done mission work, do you measure your success by the numbers of your failures, even in regions that you didn't reach, or do you measure it by your individual successes.

Anyone who has done any charitable work, regardless of whether it is organizing or fundraising or legislating, knows that success is measured on an individual basis.

I do a lot of community work. I don't measure my success by whether the crime rate in my city goes down, or whether more kids go to school, or whether more people are free from domestic violence. I judge my success by whether I prevent one more person from violence, by whether I ease one more person's pain. Asking more from me is inane. It's insulting. It's disrepectful.

I don't know how effective Obama's work was. The mere fact that he tried is good for me. It's more than most people do. Yes, he didn't suffer in a POW camp. Given that the last president didn't even fulfill his tour of duty with the National Guard, it's hard for me to understand why the right think that being a POW equates with being right, when ducking service didn't equate with being wrong.

The fact is that Obama tried to help people. Whether it worked or didn't, I just don't know why this is something anyone would mock. I find the whole Republican disdain for his community organizing to be disrepectful and downright insulting to those of us who are engaged in the same.

I agree with this. Something has to be done about the situation. My fear is that if we pull out under Obama's plan that we will be leaving Iraq like we did Afghanastan after the Soviet invasion. In essence leaving a void and a country left in shambles. If Iraq (with it's $79 billion) does align with Iran we are screwed. I don't know how likely that is as there is much animosity between the two. Nonetheless, it leaves Iraq open to be the new staging ground for Al qaeda.

Btw. . .I am not a McCain supporter, nor do I support Obama.

But I stand by my statement, that to simply take our 12 billion a month and go home is very ignorant and dangerous IMHO.

And thank God we are talking about issues that matter!

Yes, I do agree with Paul's idea. But it was not only leaving Iraq he wants to bring people home from all the bases around the world. Saving billions and billions on that alone.
Also drastic cuts to federal government programs would be necessary until the US got back on a solid monetary ground.

I just do not think Obama will bring the troops "home". I just look for him to move them around. Let some come home..but send out more troops to Afghanistan, etc. So, I do not think that y