I am not speaking for all of Texans...but for most in the area I live in and the people I know ...

Most are Republicans...We really have no reason to vote in the Republican primary because McCain has it locked up.

What we, and I mean, just about everyone I've talked to..with the exception of my 23yr old DD and her crowd - are going to do is vote in the Democratic primary and we are all voting for Hillary. Just to try to keep Obama off the ticket.

(The reason my DD and her friends are voting for Obama is not so much his stand on issues, but more that they think he is their "John Kennedy". Young, charismatic and a good speaker. What they fail to add into the equation is EXPERIENCE or lack-there-of !)

If it's between Hillary or Obama vs McCain - I'd hope it would be Clinton vs McCain -- so if the Democrates win...at least there is someone in the White House that I, personally can live with.

Hope it works, and Hillary will get the Texas delegates - we'll find out Tuesday.

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Mary

I don't mean to be argumentative but don't you think this is setting a pretty bad example for your "DD and her crowd". You appear to be trying to manipulate the system. IMO, it shows a lack of respect for the process. JMTC

As an aside, if you voted for the current President Bush, how do you square his experience as governor of Texas against Senator Obama's experience. I've read that the governorship of Texas is among the weakest, if not the weakest, of the 50 states. Senator Obama had a number of years experience as an elected representative in the Illinois Senate in addition to his current term in Congress.

How is voting for a candidate that I think is more qualified manipulating the system? DD knows how I feel. I just don't think Obama has the experience needed. His State legislature and short US Senate experience does not qualify him to be the commander in chief of the most powerful country in the world.

Granted Hillary, does not have much more "logged" experience, but she was first Lady for 8 years and trust me, she knows the ins and outs of the presidency - just that fact alone makes her more qualified, in my book. Plus I like the idea that if she wins, Bill will be there for her.

(I know what you're talking about - voting Democrat vs Republican (Actually I'm an independant and have never voted in a primary...mostly because by the time Texas has it's primary the decision is already made for the tickets... but have voted in every elections since 1976) ---- but in this case I am voting in the primary for the Democrat I would like to win --- that does not mean I have to vote for that person, but a least it may give me the CHOICE to vote for that person, should McCain say or do anything stupid before the election that would make me want to vote Democrat ------ Just keeping my options open.)

Aaaahhhh, not going to be drawn into that debate.

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Mary

Guess I understand. Don't think it is something that I would do, but to each his own.

I'm sure Senator Clinton will be grateful for all the votes she can get.

This is quite stupido, why would you not vote for Huckabee that McCain is a liberal that we do not want.

Looks like she WILL need them - right now TV News pole is showing Obama leading by about 7% (give or take 4%) - but then again, the poll seems to change every day!


Both are here (in San Antonio 40 miles from me) today - DD going to Obama Rally at 6pm - I'm going to Clinton Rally at 7pm - Different venues, or course

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Mary

I just moved from Texas in August and still have friends and family there (both dem and pub). Thankfully none of them feel the same way about voting.

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

That's nice of you. HIllary's going to need every vote she can get.

What about her experience impresses you the most? The vote for the war or maybe the failure of her health care plan? Covering up for Bill's dalliances or maybe the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy claim? The fear-mongering ad she just approved or the whining about getting the first question at every debate?

This week we have had both Hillary and side kick Slick Willy in our area. I have heard both sides of the election including Obama's. I am not sure as of yet who I am voting for. I do think Mary has a right to her opinion just like all of us. I do think Hillary is going to have some trouble in Ohio on Tuesday. I cant wait to see what happens!

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Are you undecided about whether you are going to vote for Senator Obama or Senator Clinton or Senator McCain and Rev. Huckabee. I'm asking because I can't imagine how you can still be undecided about which side of the aisle you'll be voting for. The republicans and democrats are diametrically opposed on everything from taxes, the war, health care, etc., etc., etc.

One poster said she was a Senator McCain supporter but would vote for Senator Clinton if he did something stupid before the election. That left me wondering what exactly he could do besides commit murder that would make a McCain supporter vote for Clinton.

Here are some of the issue for McCain (what I Like - DO NOT Like) -
Like - Supports an increase in the number of visas issued for agricultural workers.
Like - Supports immigration reform allowing willing employers & employees to connect, while protecting American jobs & securing our borders.
NO NOT Like - Would relax restrictions barring legal immigrants from using social programs (e.g. public housing, food stamps).
Like -The United States should increase financial and military support to Afghanistan.
Like - The United States should maintain its financial support of the United Nations and commit troops to United Nations peacekeeping missions, when defense of our national interests and values calls for such action, provided the U.S. maintains operational control of our forces.
DO NOT like - Does not agree that a nation's human rights record should affect its normal trade relations (most favored nation) status with the United States.
Like - Supports a policy of pre-emptive strikes against countries deemed to be a threat to national security, evaluated on a case by case basis depending on the severity of the threat.
Like - Workers should be allowed to invest a portion of their payroll tax in private accounts which they manage themselves.
Like - Welfare recipients should be required to spend at least 40 hours a week in a combination of work and training programs.

Here are some of the issue for Clinton (what I Like - DO NOT Like) -
Like - Support for parental notice of teen pregnancy and family planning programs.
Like - Protection of the next generation through paying off the United States debt.
Like - Reduction of outsourcing-bring more jobs back home.
Like - Reduction of taxes within a balanced budget.
Like - Supports increased funding and stricter sentences for hate crimes.
Like - Supports requiring DNA testing for federal executions.
NO NOT Like - . Opposes merit pay for individual teachers.
Like - Address the shortage of teachers by providing a salary increase.
Like - Supports a guest worker program and enabling guest workers to gain citizenship.
NO NOT Like - Supports re-deployment OUT of Iraq in 90 days
Like - Improve relations between Israel and the United States

In short, I'm just pointing out reasons I would like each to win - I think Clinton would be a stronger president for the economy and homeland issues. Whereas, I think McCain would be strong dealing with international issues.

I am not locked in to anyone yet. There is a lot of time to see what what comes out and what platforms may change in the next several months. It's a long time till November. Like I said, I'm an Independent, and I'll balance out all my ideas of pros and cons before I vote.

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Mary

I'm going to throw this out there because I think it needs to be said.

I am sick of Obama playing the race card. He has yet to embrace his Caucasian half. And that just bothers the hell out of me.

So flame away if you must.

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Mary

I hate to respond to this poster, but since Huckabee has no chance of winning the nomination, I feel I would be throwing away my primary vote by voting for him. Period.

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Mary

Thanks for your post. I hope that rest of the republican voters you mentioned in your first post are as thoughtful in their decision to vote for Senator Clinton in the primary as you seem to be.

I think he's been quite open about living with his mother and her parents as a youngster. There are pictures of him with his mother's parents in some of his ads as I recollect.

Here's a news article which talks a good deal about his familty relationships:

"In a campaign speech in EL Dorado -- a small town where Obama's grandfather is from -- Obama mentioned his grandparents a lot in an attempt to connect with voters and perhaps to shed the image of himself as "exotic."

"Our family's story is one that spans miles and generations; races and realities, "Obama told the crowd. "It's a varied and unlikely journey, but one that's held together by the same simple dream. And that is why it's an American story."

ABC News: Exclusive: Obama Ready for McCain Rumble

I honestly don't see him as embracing either side of his ancestory. He is what he is IMO.

Halle Berry once said this, "After having many talks with my mother about the issue, she reinforced what she had always taught me. She said that even though you are half black and half white, you will be discriminated against in this country as a black person. People will not know when they see you that you have a white mother unless you wear a sign on your forehead. And, even if they did, so many people believe that you have an ounce of black blood in you then you are black. So, therefore, I decided to let folks categorize me however they needed to."

I would imagine that Obama was raised the same way. I sure don't think he's been playing a race card.

I have to confess that I only see him as a man.

Good point, kvmj. Thank You!

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Mary

What is required to "embrace" one's Caucasian half?

Here is specifically why I posted that comment -

Go to Obama's page - click on "People" tab at the top - he seems to address most every type of American except Caucasian American.

If you are going to single out nationalities you should make sure you have everyone covered. He does not even seem to want the Caucasian Male's vote. The only reason he might want my vote is because he has a link to women.

Quite Frankly I don't see any reason to single out Nationalities at all - We're Americans...PERIOD. I'm not going to vote based on what color you are and quite frankly I think we have grown enough as a people that this is a consensus with most Americans. I have lived as a "minority" my whole life...and I'm Caucasian - My High School was 70% Hispanic. San Antonio, where I grew up has a Latin majority. It just doesn't matter! UNTIL you start singling races out.

I think Obama has some good ideas, I just don't think it's his time yet --- As I mentioned above - I don't think he has enough experience yet. Now 4 years from now, that will be a different story.

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Mary

Took a stroll through John McCain's and Hillary Clinton's websites to see if they have similar groups. Senator Clinton doesn't appear to have specific groups set up but Senator McCain has: veterans, women, men, and lawyers for McCain. I thought republicans had no use for lawyers unless they were setting next them at the defense table. Plus, I'm p'd cause my profession isn't recognized.

"Caucasian American"? Oh, come on you're kidding right? Caucasion is not an nationality -- unless you can tell me were "Caucasia" is.

Oh please...you know what I meant and if you didn't then...oh well.

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Mary

what exactly is it you want him to say to white America?

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Yes, I think I do know what you mean.

Oh, dear.


It for many years and may still be on the lawbooks in many states if not all, that if you as a person have even 1/32 of AA blood in you, you were to check that you were African American. In other words, it didn't matter if you were biracial and had blue eyes and blonde hair and looked like Mia Farrow, if your mother was AA, so were you. I don't see that Sen Obama is forgetting that he is part white. If he was claiming to be the White Candidate for white men everywhere, what would you complain about then?........

He embraces his African American Heritage too much.

He plays the race card too much.

He doesn't play all his race cards enough.

Listen, either he has the plan to lead America or he doesn't. I believe that he does, no matter how much Caucasian or African American blood he has. I truly do not care what race he is. I truly do not see color and it is apparent that some people who post here do. He isn't making this a race issue. I think that the people who keep saying he is are making this a race issue, KWIM?

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well said usnamom!

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Gee, did you know he was also "Hawaiian"???? OMG, when we lived there, it must have been right when he was "up and coming". They touted him as this great Hawaiian because he went to a school there. THAT was nauseating, to say the least. I have really not followed him very much recently, since I have made up my mind to not vote for him, so I thankfully have missed most of what he has said. Nothing really stands out in my mind regarding race, however, what definitely stands out is when his wife said she finally had a reason to be proud to be an American. Come on.....you could be the First Lady of the United States, and you make a comment like that???? Gee, nothing in your 40plus years has given you reason to be proud???? Hit the pike lady!!!

Not sure if this even pertains to this thread, but, wanted to express that little diddy, none the less

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

That is too bad that you haven't followed him recently. I always have told my kids, who are old enough to vote and I have believed that I cannot make an intelligent decision if I haven't studied what all the sides are. I understand who Mitt Romney was, what Huckabee wants, who Sen Clinton is, and what Sen McCain has promised. Before I made up my mind who I was going to back and vote for, I think it is important to know who they are - not what color they are.

While I may not understand why Sen Obama's wife said that comment, I don't hold it against him, for sure. I am sure that all of us have said things that may have not made sense to others at a later time.
But that is the greatest thing about being an American......the ability to say whatever we want without judgement. Or at least it is supposed to be.

__________________
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RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

I didn't say I don't know what he stands for, I said I have already come to the conclusion that I will not vote for him, therefore, why listen to any more of what he says?? I did not base that decision on his color, either. I'd vote for someone with purple skin if I felt they could do a good job of getting this country to a positive place.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I guess you took my post wrong then. Sorry. You said you had not followed him recently and I said it was too bad. Then I wrote what I have done to come to my conclusion and what I have taught my kids. On the matter of race, I was still speaking to an earlier posts by people who still want to make it be about a race, whether it is white, black, hawaiian, asian, orange, blue etc.....KWIM? I was speaking in the general, certainly not in the singular.
In the beginning, I was sure that Sen Obama was too inexperienced to be in the White House, but after following him for the past while and studying all the candidates, I have come to change my mind.

I am sure that everyone who votes believes that the candidate they vote for will do a good job of getting this country to a more positive place. Well, let me actually say, I think most do. I believe there are people who will vote against someone because of their race or party affiliation without looking at their platform or ideas. They vote the way they do because they don't want someone else in that office without looking at if that person could bring positive change, KWIM? Like voting for a candidate you don't particularly like so another candidate who is in the lead won't get as many votes.....

Hey, wait, wasn't that what this OP was? I just went back and read the OP and isn't that funny? It is.

__________________
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RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

In our paper today there was an article stating that thousands of Republican Pennsylvanians have re-registered as Democrats so they can vote Dem in our primary. You have to be declared to vote in the primary here. They are expecting another few thousand to do the same before the March 22nd (I think) cut off date.

Some of those folks are doing it because they are truly fed up with the Rep party. Some are doing it to vote for the Dem candidate they feel can be beaten by McCain.

They fully expect a number of those folks to go back to Rep before the general election. They are closely following this though to see how many remain Dems.

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bite me and get a brain!

Here is what I think is funny - you have not once stated why you support Obama. I made it very clear which issues I like and dislike about the 2 candidates I'm considering. I even pointed out in detail why I thought the Obama was using race as part of his platform.

So unless you are posting just to "stir the pot" why don't you tell me why you support Obama and perhaps I will be able to see your point of view. KWIM?

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Mary

I am going to vote for hillard if she lose then i am going to vote for Mcain i listen to obama and his policy will cost middle class american the clothes off their backs.

So true. Unfortunately much of this country does not echo your feelings. There are people voting for Obama simply because of his race. There are people voting against Obama simply because of his race. If the polls are right, more of the former than the latter, and those former are votes which he will happily accept.

Umm....I didn't start this thread about my "friends" in Texas voting against a candidate so another candidate wouldn't win.

Stirring the pot???? I have to laugh. Thanks.

I didn't post that someone wasn't "embracing his Caucasian" enough. LOL.

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RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

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I know alot of people here in Oklahoma do the same thing, they are registered as Democrats so they can vote in the Decmocratc primaries. Here you only get to vote in the primary in your party, so if you are Republican you ony get to choose a Republican, if you are a Democrat then you only get to choose a Democrat. So here alot of people register as a Democrat and vote in the primaries, but then they later in the regular election vote Republican. Both of my adult kids do this, but I do not.

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There was a discussion about this on one of the talking head shows last night. The "head" representing the republican party said its how the "game" is played and democrats just need to learn how to play. I find it reprehensible both from the standpoint of interfering in the other party's process knowing that you have no intention of voting for that party's candidate and also from the perspective of viewing the choice of the leader of our country as a "game". I respect the OP who at least had the decency to give her vote choice some thought but those who just do it to interfere in the party process are IMO morally bankrupt.

Just an FYI - to my own utter amazement, I am leaning more and more toward Hillary for my vote in the presidential election.

As you can imagine, we have been bombarded with TV and newspaper ads/articles about all the candidates this week. And the more I research the more I see my values fall more in line with Ms. Clinton than Mr. McCain. Geez, who would have "thunk" it.

I just got back from voting in the primary and I will go back tonight to participate in the caucus vote.

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Mary

I need a fainting emoticon

I certainly don't think it's reprehensible or morally bankrupt. If a person really believes that his/her party and/or country can be served by switching votes then so be it. If the parties don't like the switching, the answer is simple. Don't allow it.

For the primary I had a hard time deciding on whether to vote Republican or Democrat. In the general election, I am almost certain to vote a mostly Democratic ticket. I didn't want to have to chose between Clinton or Obama at that point, so I was debating on whether to vote for Huckabee because he would be easier to beat in the general election or whether to vote for McCain, who I considered to be the lesser of the Republican evils at that time. Now I'm not so sure. Maybe Huckabee would have been the better choice given the McCain prophecy of 100 years in Iraq. And as it turns out I chose a Democratic ballot when I went to the polls.

I feel that even though I vote Democratic most of the time, that I should be able to have a voice in both parties if I want to. They are both going to affect how this country is run and if I see someplace that I can make a difference on either side, I should be able to do so without being thought of as morally bankrupt. Just the fact that I, or anyone else, takes the time to be informed and go to the polls is enough.

Okay, I'll take back morally bankrupt but will stick with reprehensible. I know people do what you described but your first reason "debating on whether to vote for Huckabee because he would be easier to beat in the general election ..." and your second reason "...vote for McCain, who I considered to be the lesser of the Republican evils" are wildly divergent. The first, again IMO, is the "game" which the talking head mentioned last night and the second is hopefully the considered choice of someone who has the best interests of the country in mind even though they might still be playing the game.

As far as having a voice in both parties, I think we all do when it comes down to regular elections but primaries are different. I think we should trust that each party will choose the candidate that best represents their party and not interfere in the process by switching party affiliations for the sole purpose, in many cases, of creating mischief and because we can. Again JMTC

This is a 50 State list of how the states governments are ranked:

http://www.pewcenteronthestates.org/...erformance.pdf

Texas is pretty high on the grade.

I'm happy to find that I may be reprehensible but at least no longer morally bankrupt. 8-) I think I have a right to influence either party if I think it is what will be good for the country first and my party of choice second. I don't take voting lightly and even if, and when, I vote in a primary, I do so with a lot of thought. After the last few presidential election cycles I have no faith in either party to give us the best candidates. So when I see two, (actually a lot more than two this time), very viables candidates coming out of the Democratic side, I see nothing wrong with trying to further their ability to win the general election. And I'm sure there are plenty of people on the other side doing the same. Maybe not for exactly the same reasons, but they are still trying to influence the outcome. There's nothing wrong with trying to see that the best possible candidate wins. That's best for the country.

I totally understand what you are saying but I guess (and this is not directed at you or anyone else on the board) in my eyes there is a not so fine line between playing the primary game by switching party affiliations, and miscounting votes, both of which is done, in the minds of the people doing it, as doing it for the "good of the country". How's that for a run on sentence and judgemental to boot.

I would love your take on this article:

"Hillary Clinton and her campaign is pushing for precinct captains for Texas' 8,000 Democratic polling places. They need to train folks to lead the caucus sessions that will determine more than 60 delegates after the primary voting is over.

In training materials being handed out by the Clinton campaign, it is clear that they want to control those caucus sessions.

The materials say in part, "DO NOT allow the supporter of another candidate to serve in leadership roles."

It goes on to say, "If our supporters are outnumbered, ask the Temporary Chair if one of our supporters can serves as the Secretary, in the interest of fairness.

"The control of the sign-in sheets and the announcement of the delegates allotted to each candidate are the critical functions of the Chair and Secretary. This is why it is so important that Hillary supporters hold these positions."

TRAIL BLAZERS Blog | The Dallas Morning News

I actually saw that article - this is the 1st caucus I've ever attended/attending -- from what I understand from the poll workers it's pretty much a cluster-F.

You're supposed to get a "voucher" (which I have) when you vote in the primary that allows you attend the caucus - anyone, and only those, who vote in the primary can attend. However - If you don't have your "voucher" you sign in and they verify who's voted or not by the sign in sheet against the voting log.

Then they take a vote, by a show of hands, to determine which candidates get how many delegates.

70% of the people voting do not even realize that there is a caucus that decides about a 1/3 of the delegates. In short if you go to the caucus you get to vote twice. 126 delegates determined by the primary - 67 delegates determined by the caucus.

I have no idea why this is done.

I know Clinton is up-in-arms but I don't see how it's unfair - stupid maybe - but it seems fair --- it's going to determine who is able to get their voters back out at 7pm.

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Mary

I think the line is pretty definite. One is legal, one is not.

That's what's fun about doing this online. You can run on and on and not lose breath doing it. And most important, no one can interupt you. Well I guess in a way they can. They can close the thread. That's almost like being interupted.

Caucus Update - It ABSOLUTLY was a Cluster F (pardon my language) - We waited outside for about 3 hours before we could go in - well let me correct that - we were escorted in at 7pm, then we were usher out again because there were still people in line to vote.

Once all the voters were finished we went back in and signed the "roll log" and declared our candidate. That took about an Hour and a half. Then the "judges" huddled together discussing what to do next.

That's when a gentleman stepped up and explained the process and how to proceed - that while the "election judges" stood by with their mouths open. (Keep in mind this gentleman had no affiliation with the election staff)

Then people took turns explaining why their candidate should win. And then it was over.

I know Texas has not had a caucus like this in what...35 years, but at the very least they should have trained the officials on the process. The caucus IS NOT reflective of the Texas Vote - so many people, especially the elderly left before we even went in because it was cold and they could not stand for so long. It was, IMHO, a disappointment. I hope they stop doing it.

In fact I wish the entire US would just forgo the electoral vote process go completely to popular vote.

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Mary

C'mon Mary. You know we "ordinary" citizens are too stupid to decide the fate of this country. (insert sarcasm here)

I do agree w/ you about that though.


I heard on the radio that the caucus sucked.

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Remember back in grade school/middle school when you would elect a class President? The person with the most votes was President and then the person w/ the second highest vote count was Vice-President.
I really think that would be a good way to do it now! Let each party pick 2-3 people that they want to run. Let America vote. The person with the most votes is President, the person w/ the second most votes is Vice President. Might not have the same party as President and Vice President...Wow! Do you think that would inspire more cooperation between the parties?
For the record Montana has a Democrat as Governor, and a Republican as Lt. Governor. The Democrats welcomed Lt Gov. Bolinger w/ open arms. The Republicans have all but declared him dead to them.
Personally, I like Gov. Schweitzer and Lt. Gov. Bolinger--they are extremely nice men, very intelligent, very dedicated to the state. They compliment each other well.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I think we could easily do away with the caucus system, but there are some very good reasons to keep the electoral college.