I read an article today that stated Sen. O'bama will not (did not??? I think I have seen it before) wear a US flag pin on his lapel, and did not put his hand over his heart for the National Anthem. They also made mention of the lovely comment by his wife about "finally feeling proud to be an American", and I know where that came from , but, does anyone know what the other situations are in regard to ???

I am guessing they are well known,since the author did not refer to the time frame of the incident, just the act itself.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I tried to post earlier..so if this shows up as a double post, I am sorry.

Here is Obama's explanations
Once again, I am just pulling a few quotes from the link below.

Obama fights back on questions about his patriotism - CNN.com

"The reporter cited the fact that Obama once failed to put his hand over his heart while singing the national anthem.
Obama replied that his choice not to put his hand on his heart is a behavior that "would disqualify about three-quarters of the people who have ever gone to a football game or baseball game."

"He and his wife, Michelle, had already explained her comments. "She simply misspoke," he said. "What she was referring to was [that] this was the first time she has been proud of politics in America."

About not wearing an American flag lapel pin, Obama said Republicans have no lock on patriotism.
"A party that presided over a war in which our troops did not get the body armor they needed, or were sending troops over who were untrained because of poor planning, or are not fulfilling the veterans' benefits that these troops need when they come home, or are undermining our Constitution with warrantless wiretaps that are unnecessary?
"That is a debate I am very happy to have. We'll see what the American people think is the true definition of patriotism."

WOW!! Thanks for that link and quotes. What a stupid thing to say about not putting your hand over your heart......shows his lack of military service, QUITE clearly, which, as I have said before, goes to Patriotism. And, furthermore, even "if" that were true about 2/3rs of the people at a ball game, um, I don't think THEY are running for President of the United States.

Ok, the more I hear about him, the less I like him.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

His feelings about flag lapel pins as stated in the following article are similar to mine. To quote Ron Paul who was quoting someone else: "When facism comes to America it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a bible".

ABC News: Barack Obama Drops U.S. Flag Pin

From the ABC article: "..... Most of the candidates do not wear them. The one big exception: former New York City Mayor Rudolph Giuliani, who is rarely without one. .... "

The snopes article is self explanatory. There are pictures of him with his hand on his heart during the National Anthem but they don't prove the point trying to be made by those who consider him "scary".

Urban Legends Reference Pages: Barack Obama and the National Anthem

What exactly does putting your hand over your heart or not during the playing of the National Anthem have to do with military service.

BTW, the Senator's name is spelled Obama, not O'bama.

Anyone who has served in the military would know the proper thing to do during the playing of The National Anthem.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

The Snopes article said he did not have hand over heart. Also, meant to add in the other, if he is elected as our next President, he will be the Commander In Chief for the Armed Forces. WHAT kind of example would he be setting by this action????

I don't find him "scary" just not qualified to be our President.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

The snopes article also says there are other pictures of him with his hand over his heart. Such a silly argument.

What kind of an example is the current CIC setting? He "served" in the military, wears a lapel pin and has his hand over his heart during the National Anthem and all the while he's p'ing on our military and the Constitution. If those are the qualities we value in our CIC then God help us all.

so if I once or twice don't put a hand over my heart during the anthem, I'm unpatriotic? And if I don't wear a flag pin, then again, I'm unpatriotic? WOW. I had no idea there were such strict rules and regulations for being an American. Are there other rules I don't know about? Am I supposed to bow and kiss the hem of King B'ush when he's near? Should I yell "Screw the Muslims" as loud as possible when I'm near a military base to show support for our troops? Wait, I know. Am I supposed to jump and kick my heels twice when yet another of our citizens criticizes someone else for something they themselves don't do?

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Well, I think the point is these are SIMPLE ways we show how we feel about our country and it's ppl and traditions. It has nothing to do with any other country. Just us and who we are, or who we hope to be as a united ppl. Small, simple things that mean nothing in some sense, but a great deal in another. Why NOT do them? It means something to so many, not to mention our military men and women, why NOT!!??

Melissa

If you don't serve in the military, you're not a patriot?

Wow, that's some seriously unique thinking.

We can always count on you for a smart ass reply, thanks for not letting us down

I don't think anyone here would argue the fact that it is quite a sacrafice our military members and their families make for our country and the citizens of it. I think that's very patriotic. If you don't serve in the military, can you still be patriotic??? Sure, but, there's more to it than just hanging the US flag in your yard or wether or not you have your hand over your heart and wear a flag lapel pin. I think the President of the United States of all people should be the most patriotic of all. If they aren't proud of this country or aren't willing to show respect for it, why are you even running????

I guess it really depends on how you view things. We went to the WWII memorial in DC shortly after it opened. There is a beautiful "lake" in the middle (not really a lake, but, more like a shallow pool of water). While we were there taking it all in, I noticed several people, adults and children playing in the water. Appropriate??? Depends on how you view it. IMO, no, it wasn't appropriate.....this was not the beach, but, a memorial. Some people just don't get it, I guess.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

The President of the United States is held to different standards, tho. I think that is the point that I am not conveying.

Would it bother you if the President didn't place a wreath at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier??? Or, didn't show up at a national catastrophe/tragedy???

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Well, B'ush didn't show up in New Orleans right away. I didn't expect him to though. And although it's a great and wonderful tradition, I feel absolutely nothing when I watch the man responsible for 4000+ American lives lost in Iraq place a wreath at the tomb. Maybe if I thought he actually gave a damn...

The good thing is that it sounds to me like you're already equating Obama to being the president. Yea Alli!

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

ANYONE who wants to be President SHOULD be held to a higher standard--period, end of story!

And quite frankly--the more Barack Obama talks, the more I realize --he's not ready to be President.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Well, aren't you just the pot today?

Isn't that what was said? I was rephrasing it to make sure that's really what someone actually thought, because, frankly, I couldn't quite believe it.

You would think, but you say that in one line and then dispute it in the next.

There is suppose to be another Democratic debate Wed. April 16 at 8 pm ET (ABC).
This might be interesting because they have been going after each other so hard the last couple of weeks.

April 16 Democratic Debate Hosted by ABC News, National Constitution Center and WPVI-TV

NO, you asked if not serving in the military was not patriotic.

"If you don't serve in the military, you're not a patriot? " is your quote from your above post. I was stating that does not mean you are not patriotic. Had Obama served in the military, perhaps showing some form of respect for our National Anthem would not be so difficult or foreign for him to do. I think when a person (family included) serves their country through military service, they are usually more in tune with these things. AGAIN, anyone running for President SHOULD, in my opinion, be one of the most patriotic of all.

Clearly I am not getting my point across, so rather than beat a dead horse, I'll just suffice it to say that I do not think Barrack Obama is a qualified canditate for President.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Not true. You said: "What a stupid thing to say about not putting your hand over your heart......shows his lack of military service, QUITE clearly, which, as I have said before, goes to Patriotism."

"Lack of military service, quite clearly . . . goes to Patriotism." Your words. What did you mean if not that a failure to serve in the military means you're not patriotic. What are you saying with that statement that you made -- you, not me.

Please, I'd really love to know what your statement meant if I've misunderstood it.

We were taught early in grade school to always stand, face the flag, place your hand over your heart and give full attention. It is respect and something that is continued in the military. Military bases stop at sundown each day for a tribute as well. Civilians, not making military sacrifices and living the lives our soldiers live every single day, perhaps are out of the habit.

It is scary that the Commander in Chief would never have served in the military. The current war doesn't affect many, many people in this country. No rationing, no precious metal scrapping, no women filling in for men's jobs like WWII when almost everyone made sacrifices. Life hasn't changed due to the war for many Americans so the least they could do is show respect.

Life has changed for the approximate 4000 families who will never see their active duty person again. Life has changed for those deployed, injured, etc.

Respect is lacking.

dl

Ok, let me try this again, and I understand it is hard to convey in the typed word. For Senator Obama to try and diflect attention from his lack of knowing WHAT to do during the playing of the National Anthem (you certainly do not stand there with clasped hands in front of yourself) by
replying that his choice not to put his hand on his heart is a behavior that "would disqualify about three-quarters of the people who have ever gone to a football game or baseball game." That is like saying "well, why blame me??? Other people do the same thing" and not address the real issue.

If you don't serve in the military does NOT mean you are not patriotic. MANY people don't serve in the military, yet are very patriotic. Here is the meaning of Patriotic, per Websters.com:
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source - Share This pa·tri·ot·ic Audio Help (pā'trē-ŏt'ĭk) Pronunciation Key
adj. Feeling, expressing, or inspired by love for one's country.
I think that people who serve our country in the military are very patriotic, and show more respect for things, in certain areas. Serving in the military is a very patriotic thing to do. You learn many traditions and customs about this country that "civilans" usually don't know. Do you (general you) know how to properly fold the flag when presenting it to a loved one of a deceased service member??? Do you (general you) know when and how to raise or lower the flag??? Probably not, but, that does not mean you are not patriotic. These are things that are learned by people that, IMO, SHOULD know these things. Knowing how to stand while the National Anthem is being played is definitely something that someone running for President of the United States should know. This discussion should not even being occurring, quite honestly. I want a president who is patriotic, and IMO, serving in the military is a form of showing patriotism. Whether (sp?) they saw combat or not, they still took the time to do what they needed to do to be a Service Member,and made the sacrifice to serve. His lack of military service, IMO, leaves him at a disadvantage in many areas on how a President should conduct him or herself in different situations.

I think the issue got clouded when I lumped together his lack of knowing what to do during the playing of the National Anthem with his lack of military service, which would have taught him what to do, and the fact that I consider military service to be a patriotic thing to do, which I like to see (patriotism) in my President. Barrack himself mentioned patriotism in his statement.

Now, if it isn't as clear as mud, I don't know what more I can say.

I don't know how else to clarify it, I really don't.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I was taught the same thing when pledging allegiance to the flag. I must say though that I was not aware that it was expected that you place your hand on your heart during the singing of the National Anthem. I agree that our candidates for President should be aware of and follow established protcol. I'm sure it will be a cold day in heck before Senator Obama forgets in the future seeing as how it seems to be a make or break rule for so many. Too bad we can't generate the same amount of angst when discussing some of the lies we've been fed for the last 7 years.

As for the CIC serving the the armed service; IMO, the current CIC even though he claims "service" in the military has done more harm to our country then any President in history. I agree respect is sadly lacking both for our military and the laws of our country in the current administration.

That's so funny Marilyn. I was JUST thinking the same thing about Hilary - liar extraordinaire.

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Oh, I know-- I love you girl!

I think you and I agree what needs to be done, just not who needs to do it!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

It's not. This is just so much BS being thrown around. Certainly it's permissible, but it's not required by any means. Smoke and mirrors.

true! I'd give rep, but it won't let me till I "spread it around". Won't let me do it w/ ana either.

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

I said taught, not required. I am not the person throwing bs around, much less cow patties like some.

As stated before, there is no more respect and many posts in this thread echo that statement !

dl

I was not taught to place my hand over my heart while singing the national anthem, only during the pledge of allegiance.

In our country, as per the constitution, control of the military was put in civilian hands. It has never been necessary that the President know military protocol. It might be necessary in military dictatorship, but not here.

If you were under the impression I was talking specifically about or to you, you're mistaken. I was answering ana -- not that this is a private forum or anything, just wanted to be clear that my comments weren't directed to you.

I was the person who posted about this and I did think your entire post was directed at me. It's ok if you want to clarify.

dl

I found this.

United States Code, 36 USC Sec. 301 says that during the playing of The Star Spangled Banner (United States National Anthem) when the flag is displayed, everyone except those in uniform should stand at attention while facing the flag and have their right hand over their heart. Individuals in attendance that aren't in uniform should remove anything they are wearing on their head with their right hand and hold it at their left shoulder, with their hand held over their heart. Individuals in uniform should show the military salute during the first note of the anthem and stay in this position until the last note. If the flag is not displayed, people in attendance should face the music and respond as if the flag were present.

Maybe someone should educate Obama on respect of the National Anthem and the flag.

There sure are a lot of us doing it wrong out there. I nominate PUM to teach us all the right way.

THANK YOU

dl

Maybe someone should educate Bush. Maybe the poor man just doesn't know his heart from his stomach.

Getting trite in here. But, that was funny, Truble.

You don't expect anyone to believe he held his hand on his stomach for whatever this is, now, do you??? What event was this, anyway?

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Not the singing of the National Anthem or the Pledge of Allegiance.

"This photo, snapped by a photographer during a moment of silence at the White House on the third anniversary of 9/11 in 2004, captured the President holding his stomach instead of his heart, as those around him were."

THANK YOU!!

No matter how educated he is, you have to have RESPECT for this country to do acts such as facing the flag, and putting your hand over your heart!!!! Pathetic Sherri

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"It isn't that liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

Where did you find that quote to go with the picture??? I notice the two military members in uniform behind the President are saluting. You don't salute during a moment of silence.

I don't think this is an actual undoctored photo. Or, snapped as his hand was on its way to his heart or back down to his side.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I agree, no RESPECT, the CIC has an MBA from Harvard for gosh sakes and he thinks his heart is located near his belt buckle. You're right, he's pathetic

Just to quote truble.....
And where did you come upon that information? Under or over the bridge? Sherri

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"It isn't that liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

The Daily Background The Top 15 Most Embarrassing Photos of George W. Bush

I do not know much about the military..but the ones standing behind Mrs. Bush are not saluting.

Obama dons flag pin once again

WASHINGTON, Pennsylvania (CNN) –- For the first time since a mini dust-up back in October, Democrat Barack Obama wore an American flag pin Tuesday at a town hall meeting with veterans in Pennsylvania.

But he didn't show up wearing the pin–instead, a Vietnam era veteran presented it to him on the ropeline as Obama made his way to the podium at the start of the event.

"I was just handed this," Obama said. "It's a flag pin. I think I'll go ahead and put that on."

He then did just that.

"I appreciate your service," Obama told Philip Fiumara, Jr., a Vietnam era veteran and undecided voter, according to the campaign.

"Thank you so much. It means a lot coming from you, and we are grateful to you."

This is the first time Obama has worn a flag pin on his lapel since it was widely reported last fall that he had stopped wearing one.

At the time, Obama said, "My attitude is that I'm less concerned with what you're wearing on you lapel than what's in your heart. You show your patriotism by how you treat your fellow Americans, especially those ones who serve."

Can you say staged??? He's falling behind in the polls...the man has to do something to catch up!!!LOLOLOL

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"It isn't that liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

The ones standing behind appear to be an honor guard--they are standing at attention w/ the flags. The honor guard does not salute.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Obama said, "My attitude is that I'm less concerned with what you're wearing on your lapel than what's in your heart. You show your patriotism by how you treat your fellow Americans, especially those ones who serve."

According to his military supporters "the man" seems to be doing something right.

From a USA Today article a few weeks ago:

Democrat Barack Obama and Republican Ron Paul have little in common politically, except their opposition to the Iraq war.

Both top a new list of presidential candidates receiving campaign contributions from people who work for the four branches of the military and National Guard, according to a study released Thursday by the non-partisan Center for Responsive Politics.

Obama, an Illinois senator, brought in more donations from this group than any White House contender from either party. The Democrat announced Wednesday his plan to withdraw all U.S. troops from Iraq by the end of 2008.

Paul, a Texas congressman and the only GOP presidential hopeful who supports an immediate troop withdrawal, comes in second.

"Paul and Obama are talking straight to soldiers, and what they are saying is resonating," said Larnell Exum, a retired Army lieutenant colonel, who gave $500 to Obama. Exum, who works for the Army as a congressional liaison, is a Democrat but voted for George Bush in 1992.


Obama, Paul net most military workers' donations - USATODAY.com

A more recent article indicating a good bit of military support for Senator Obama is here:

ABC News: Whom Are Our Troops Endorsing?

These numbers can be skewed (sp?) any way you want them to go. To get a true reading for how many of our military are supporting any of the candidates would be to poll them all, I would think. I doubt this happened. I pay little attention to these types of "statistics"

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.