www.kansascity.com | 05/10/2008 | Reaction mixed to McCain’s flirtation with a one-term presidency


Well cool. More leverage for us.

__________________
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

I wish people would not use the age issue. Death knows no age.
Even as "healthy" and young as Obama is he could get cancer or have a heart attack. Even with the best doctors at your call sometimes they can do nothing. Example: Randy Pausch "The Last Lecture"

This is why I think it is important as to who the candidates chose as a vice president.

I am no McCain supporter... but I think he was trying to say that things need to be done in earnest realizing you might only have 4 years in office.

That's true, but the odds are much greater than someone of McCain's age will die than someone of Obama's. That's just statistics. McCain likes to show off his mother, but his mother didn't go through what McCain did in POW camp, or suffer multiple bouts of cancer. That all factors into his health.

And, of course, McCain never mentions his father, who died of heart failure at age 70 in 1981.

And also previous drug use, smoking, unsafe sex..etc raises your odds of premature death. Even if someone has quit odds are greater than someone that has never done those things.

Yes, and walking in front of buses or trains will do the same.

What's your point in connection with this election?

Connection with this election?
Obama's camp poking at the fact of age while Obama's own odds on "possible" health problems are not perfect either. He admits (in his books) of the past drug use, smoking, etc.

Omidog, a politician who actually admits to being young and irresponsible. Where's the fainting icon.

Senator McCain participated in the same activities and now is at an age where his past may catch up with him sooner rather then later.

You do realize that it was MCCAIN, not Obama who said he "older than dirt" and possibly only seeking one term, etc etc right?

__________________
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Yes, and look at the young years of the last 2 Presidents (Clinton, Bush) and see what we got.

Also in the news is Obama's comment about McCain lossing his bearings..now Obama's camp said that comment had nothing to do with age. Yeah??

If you READ the entire article you would have realized that McCain's comment about being "older than dirt" was not made at the same time as his answers to this interview.
“You shouldn’t run for eight years because then you think you’ve got eight years to get these things done,” he said. “We don’t have eight years to fix Social Security and Medicare. We don’t have eight years to secure our borders so that we can stop the flood of illegal immigrants into this country. … So all I can say is, I’m running for a four-year term.” McCain


Once again, I am not a McCain supporter but playing the "age" card against him is no different than playing the "race" card against Obama. It should not come into play. Of course, people forget all the past President's that have been elected that have had "health issues".

Fight on the ISSUES..not someone's age, possible health problems, race, sex.

First where, except in the deluded minds of the McCain camp, did Obama poke at McCain's age?

Second, when did Obama say he engaged in unsafe sex?

Yeah, in fact. No one in their right mind (which, granted, might not include McCain) could take the phrase "losing his bearings" as a reflection on age. Losing his marbles, maybe, but not losing his bearings.

Finally, age is not the same as race or sex because your age has a legitimate and real effect on how you can handle the job in a way that race and sex doesn't. You wouldn't expect a 75 year old runner to do as well as a 45 year old one or a 45 year old one to do as well as a 25 year old one. Look at the photos of people like GWB and Clinton before and after they became president. The job ages you dramatically.

Age is not a legitimate reason. Actually Ron Paul is older than McCain and jogs 3 miles a day, etc. But what does that have to do with anything?

I know alot of 90+ year old farmers here that still bale hay etc...on the other hand I have had friends die in their 40's with a massive heart attack.

Everybody gets an opinion. I disagree with yours; looks like other people do, too.

I don't really care how old Ron Paul is because he has about the same chance of becoming president as my dog does.

Remember a big percent of the voting population is the baby boomers. Piss them off and Obama will have no way of winning. Bringing up age is like committing political suicide.

I'm a baby boomer, BFD. What's your point? Why would noting that McCain will be 7 years past the usual retirement age on the day he would become president piss anyone off?

Do you plan on telling me where you got the notion that Obama engaged in unsafe sex or will you back off that one?

Why?
Because "MOST" baby boomers do not like been told that McCain is "TOO OLD" for the job.

Obama unsafe sex?
( Overall actually a nice article about Obama)
The ascent of Barack Obama, Mr Charisma - Times Online
"Obama dated a young Chicago State University student for a couple of years and eventually moved in with her at her home, which was also in Hyde Park. Owens took over the lease on Obama’s apartment. Owens remembered the woman as white, though others thought she was of mixed white and Asian heritage. She was definitely not black and,"
Maybe he didn't have sex. But if he did ..it is considered in the medical field as being with more than one sexual partner which does increase your chances of different things that can cause premature death.

Also "rumored" past sex experience with a gay person while during drugs. So far, Obama has not denied or conferred this. But as "statistics" show people that have used drugs have usually engaged in unsafe sex practices.

What qualifies you to speak for most baby boomers? McCain isn't even a member of the Baby Boom generation!



OMG, what a big crock of crap! You just lost any credibility you had with me. But, for the record, we have actual proof that McCain has had more than one sexual partner, so I guess, even with your disgusting, smarmy, unsubstantiated claims, the worst Obama can do is tie McCain on that point.

I, too, am a boomer. McCain, however, is not. I also believe that his age insofar as it affects his ability to do the job is relevant. It is not offensive to me in the least.

McCain admits to multiple affairs during his first marriage. Obama is alleged to have had one. More than likely, if either were to have experienced medical problems, they would have surfaced by now.

McCain also admits to being a party boy during Annapolis (he attributes his stellar academic career to this fact) and during his first marriage.

Hey you brought up the word " statistics". You only like "statistics" when it favors your candidate.

I guess you have no problem with "age discrimination " only BLACK discrimination .

I was only trying to point out the FACT that death can and does happen at all ages. Saying just because you are older means you are going to die first is insane.

Oh, dear, you "caught" me.

Age matters because humans are mortal. The older you get, the closer you are to developing a debilitating disease and dying.

I do not get the comparison of Bill Clinton and George Bush. Bush was 53 when he was appointed. Bill Clinton was only 46 when elected.

Most democrats believe that Bill Clinton did a pretty good job as President. I do not think that are many Republicans who believe that Bush has done a good job.

Obama just quit smoking about 15 months ago. Smoking for 25+ years can cause damage. Which increases a person's chance of stroke, heart attack, etc.

Jeff Stier: Obama's Health - Living on The Huffington Post

I mentioned Bill Clinton - "I didn't inhale" ..
Bush -once an alcoholic

I do not think either Clinton or Bush did a good job in office.

Edited to add: My point was that you should base your decision on who to vote for because of their stand on ISSUES that are important to you.
Anyone can die at any time. That is why the person they chose to have as a Vice President is so important. Hopefully they would chose someone that has their same ideas about the issues and moving the country in the right direction.

You do understand that it was McCain that brought age into the race, right?

If you want to talk issues, that's great. McCain sucks on the issues.

I think McCain brought it in the open..just like Obama did about the subject of race. So that people could move on past the "junk" to get to the meat of the issues.

There are some real differences with their foreign policy, And lots of other things I would guess.

Like Ron Paul, I like Obama on the issues/

When asked in this short CNN interview on May 2, 2008... Ron Paul thinks Obama slightly better on foreign policy than the other two candidates. No endorsement..just ask between the top 3 and that was his response.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

Edited to add: Sorry I think I misunderstood your post. I thought you meant Paul liked Obama on the issues.

Obama didn't bring race into it. Bill Clinton did.

Hillary did too!

I wasn't meaning anything bad. Not that he was playing the "race card". But rather just stating the obvious..in a joking manner.
I was thinking of the segment I saw from an Oprah show that had Obama and Michele on it. He was just making a comment I have heard him say lots of times..I am a skinny black man with a funny sounding name.

Yeah. After McCain said that BS about how Hamas and Obama, losing his bearings was probably the NICEST thing Obama could think of to say.

__________________
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Being a "woman of a certain age", I am a lot closer in age to McCain than Obama and I do think age makes a difference. I would bet a lot of money that Reagan was not really in charge during his last term in office. I spent many years taking care of my MIL with Alzheimer's and I was seeing the signs towards the end of Reagan's first term in him. That is more of a problem than having a president drop dead for some reason. Having a puppet president is not something I ever want to see again.

I think whoever is the Democratic nominee should also release his/her medical records also.


Article date from May 14, 2008

How Healthy Is John McCain? - TIME

"the McCain campaign plans to deal with the issue later this month, with a release of his medical records and a briefing by his various doctors in Arizona"

Edited to add: Alzheimer's can happen at any age just like cancer,tumors , stroke, diabetes, etc.
What is Alzheimer's?
"Experts estimate that some 500,000 people in their 30s, 40s and 50s have Alzheimer's disease or a related dementia."

I noticed the signs at the end of Reagan's first term too. It was pretty well pronounced during his second term.

Alzheimer's can happen at any age, but dementia is one of those things for which the odds increase with age. I remember when we finally had to put my MIL in a nursing home and they had three wings, none of which were locked. this was in about 1990 or 91 and after she had been there less than one year, they had converted a whole third of their facility to the ones with dementias. One wing became a locked section and there was a waiting list to for people to get in.

Not only can it happen at any age, it can happen almost overnight. Some people, like Reagan, get progressively worse and others are fine one day and not the next. And some hit a plateau and then go really bad in a matter of hours. One of the men in a support group I attended had a wife who had dementia but was able to bathe and dress herself with some small amount of help. She had been that way for several years and one morning he smelled something and he found her with her hand on the turned on stove burner. Sometime in the night, she forgot what hot was.

And the problem is, that we don't have any way of dealing with that in a president or a supreme court judge.

We do have a way of dealing with it..if whatever reason the President is unfit/unable to be the President..the Vice President will step-in. The doctors should be the ones that report anything to Congress and steps can be taken.
I am not for sure about a supreme court judge..but I think Congress could take a vote and step-in if there are true medical reasons.

I still think that both Rep. and Dem. nominees should release their medical records. Like MCain is supposely doing at the end of the month.

Congress has the power to remove a Supreme but, despite several attempts over the years, they never have followed through to do it. And even to do it, they have to be told there is a problem. Unless the problem is so obvious to the press and the public that it can't be ignored, like foaming at the mouth or running down the streets of DC with no clothes on while masturbating, it aint' gonna happen.

Of course the candidates should release their records, for what they're worth. But they hid Reagan's problems and there has been at least one Supreme, if I remember right, who was propped up during arguments and his aids made and wrote his decisions for the last couple of years of his tenure. And the biggest problem is the people surrounding them who hide the facts and take over. They have too much to lose should the source of their power be threatened.

Posting a follow-uo.
McCain today released 8 years of medical records.

McCain’s Medical Records Show Candidate Cancer-Free, Healthy - America’s Election HQ

I'll be interested in reading an unbiased evaluation of his records. If they really showed him to be in great health, they wouldn't be being dumped on the Friday of a holiday weekend.

It has been weeks ago that MCain's campagin scheduled the date for the records to be released to the reporters and others.

another news link
McCain to allow peek at medical records - CNN.com

The news media will probably have the expert "doctor" opinions on the news today.

More info in this article
Newsmax.com - A Look at McCain's Health Records

So? That's exactly my point. They scheduled it for a perfect dumping day -- a day when it won't make much news over the holiday weekend.

If McCain were truly in fabulous health, his records would be being released on a Monday morning.

Well, at least the records have been released. And people that find it important enough can find the information on the internet

Will the other candidates release their medical records?

We've all seen how the presidency ages people. With McCain we are starting at a disadvantage in years, regardless of his medical records. And I still think the possibility of mental decline is more of a problem even than the physical.

Interestingly, he's had no mental exams in the past 8 years. I wouldn't be surprised to find that a POW would have continuing issues. Certainly his attack on Obama's support of the GI bill yesterday shows a certain lack of logical thinking.

Actually, they haven't really be released. They've been made available for viewing only, no copies, to a small group of reporters for three hours only. Thousands of pages to review in three hours.

Not exactly opening the books for all, is he?

And he'll continue to get a pass for such illogical thinking to say nothing of his temper tantrums. No one dares challenge him and he gets a pass because of his POW experience. Imagine the outcry if someone seriously suggested he have a mental health exam.

My understanding is that it's the Mayo clinic's ability to handle a crowd that is responsible for the small number of people allowed to see them, as well as the time limit. If there is in fact something in them that's negative, I have no doubt at all that it will be a headline regardless of whether they have days or minutes to look for something negative in his files.

Regarding age, there are lots of ways to consider it. Age brings health problems, but it also brings wisdom and experience. Those can't be underestimated. McCain wouldn't have been my first choice, but age isn't what would've knocked him out of the running for me.

It's also interesting to note that of the eight presidents who did not complete their terms, the average of expiry was 57 years, nine months. Some died of natural causes, others were assassinated. Either way, their 'youth' didn't guard them against death.

I don't know the average age of all presidents, so that statement might not be what it seems on the face of it, but nonetheless... for those eight, being under 70 was no guarantee of serving a full term.

I have to agree that the greatest danger with McCain's advanced age would be mental decline. Frankly, the way he keeps mixing up Sunni and Shia and the fact that he doesn't seem to know who is in charge in Iran gives me great concern.

Sorry, duplicate answer.

McCain is entitled to a copy of his records. If he wanted to release them all, for any person to see, all he has to do is ask for a copy. The Mayo story is a dodge.

I don't know that it's a dodge.

Frankly, there is nothing in my medical history that I'm ashamed of or that anyone would find alarming.

But if I were running for office, I can see how things would go....

"From her 1998 check-up about six weeks after she had a baby, her weight was really unchanged from the day she was discharged from the hospital - right around 165. She didn't go in again for another check-up for an alarming five years, despite the fact that the AMA recommends check-ups annually. Furthermore, she was down to 132 at that appointment, but today is sitting heavy a 143. We also see that she turned 40 last year but has not yet been in fo her first mammogram. Dr. Bob, our medical correspondent, is going to share with us some information on the seriousness of yo-yo dieting, of the dangers of putting off important medical testing procedures, and profile the personality type of someone who practices such irresponsible behavior."

Who in their right minds wants things opened up for that?

If there is something alarming, I have every confidence that it will be found in those few hours.

Now I understand why "some" democrats are worrying about McCain doctors telling the "whole" truth.
A look back at history,

AP Looks at Presidential Health -- As McCain Gets Records Ready for the Press

"Woodrow Wilson's secret stroke. Grover Cleveland's secret cancer surgery. Franklin D. Roosevelt's secretly worsening heart disease at the world-changing Yalta Conference.
Notice a lot of secrets?"

But maybe a solution:
"Last week at a meeting of the American College of Physicians, a high-profile panel of doctors suggested it's time to replace that ritual with a health exam for presidents and presidential hopefuls that mimics the regular fit-for-flight physicals required of pilots — one done by a team of independent physicians instead of the leader's own."

I wonder if they've ever heard of that new fangled contraption called a copy machine? Someone should enlighten them.

I assume they don't want copies floating around out there for the opposition to pour over looking for anything to turn into something it may or may not be.

It wouldn't freak me out if Obama did the same thing.

If there is something major, it will be seen.

Even if he had them copied and distributed, he'd be accused of leaving out important parts that he didn't want anyone to know, so really, there is no good way to address medical stuff that will satisfy everyone.

McCain in 'excellent health,' doctor says - CNN.com

"Obama's campaign said it will release a summary of his health next week, composed by his primary care physician. The campaign said it will show he is in good health"

What opposition? If you release your records, you release the records! Everyone gets to see them. Do we really want a president in poor health or going senile?

And as I said, if there is anything in his records that is problematic, I am confident that those who are getting to see them today will let us all know.

So what's this about Obama releasing a *summary* of his health records? That surely is concerning to his supporters that he isn't releasing the whole file or even letting anyone see it for a few hours.

I swear, if they were released on a Monday morning, you'd complain that they released them because Monday mornings are so busy and no one would have time to look at them!! They were released, the press has seen them. I'm sure they'll be picked apart page by page and paragraph by paragraph no matter what day they were released on!!

At least McCain has released his. Where's Obama's and Clinton's? Why aren't you complaining that they haven't released theirs? Oh, wait, maybe they'll wait until July 4th holiday. Then no one would look at them at all because it's a big holiday weekend.

Senator McCain is the chosen nominee for the republican party but at this point the selection for the democratic party has not been definitely decided. Senator Obama is, however, releasing a summary of his records in a week or so.

I know Sen. McCain is the chosen nominee but I think it's only fair for Obama and Clinton to release theirs. People need to know if they have medical problems before they decide on their candidate.

And why is it that Obama is only released a 'summary' of this records? Guess he gets to pick and choose what's in his summary?

McCain is not the chose nominee only the "presume" nominee. That will not be decided until the Republican convention in Sept.

Do you really think all of the nominees from each party should have released their records during the primaries?

I expect Senator Obama will decide to release all of his records if only to quiet the talking heads. I see a distinct difference between the medical records of a 40 something year old with no record of significant health problems and that of a 70 year old with fairly significant medical problems but I'm sure my "opinion" may differ from others.

Um... not that you know of.

The only way to know if he'd had significant health problems would be to review his full records.

If you got to see the full file and noticed he'd had cancer would it change your vote?

I mean... if the premise is that we need to see their records so we can know if we want to vote for them or not based on the longevity we can assume they will have, if you found that Obama had in fact had some serious health scare, would you then vote for McCain?

I really don't think medical records will change many votes, regardless of what they say, so long as there isn't some hugely significant thing.

No, they haven't been "released." Now that the three hour time frame for a select group to review the pages is over, they've been whisked back into the magic vault.


The New York Times > Log In

But it's always such a pleasure to have your input.

Well I sure am feeling better now that you are confident. Confident that a cadre of who knows who is allowed to see perhaps hundreds of pages of medical info and in three hours pull out any significant information that might be tucked in there someplace. Even if they sent in great medical minds to troll these pages, with only three hours, it's very likely that something important got overlooked.

These are typical trial lawyer tactics. Flood them with paperwork and limit the time they have to see it and hope no one finds the treasure.

I do think it odd that the NYT's medical reporter was not allowed to attend. He's a doctor who would know exactly what he was looking at.

I agree. Obama should release his full records, but only for an one hour and forty-five minutes, (because of the age difference, not as much time is needed), in a closed room with no recording devices or cameras. And then they go back into the vault. And it should be done on a Friday at seven in the morning with whatever advanced notice that McCain gave to the news outlets.

You say odd, I say there was likely a darn good reason McCain's team didn't let him in!

Don't forget, only a few reporters and don't invite that reporter from the NYT with the actual medical degree who might understand the meaning of the records.

You lose me here. WTF do trial lawyers have to do with this? Do you have any evidence that McCain got advice from trial lawyers to do this or are you just happy to have a chance to bash trial lawyers?

I think it's far more likely that his campaign advisers told him to pull this stunt.

I never said he got advice from lawyers, trial or otherwise, or anyone else for that matter and that was not bashing lawyers. I'm not sure why you thought that was bashing lawyers. It's a tactic that is sometimes used by lawyers. Nothing more, nothing less.

My comment comes from watching way too much TV, and in many shows I see the lawyers who are trying to hide something, wait until just before a deadline and then inundate the opposition with cases of documents in the hopes that it won't be found in time for a rebuttal at trial. That is also typical of our "lawmakers" in Congress who hide things in enormous bills that are coming up for a vote on the night before the vote because they know it will not be thoroughly read and reviewed.

Although I would bet he is getting advice from both lawyers and campaign advisers. But if not, then I'm guessing that whoever is advising him has been watching the same TV shows that I have.

That's funny, because I could have sworn you brought trial lawyers into the conversation for no good reason.

Wildwood, you think lawyers use tactics? Nah. They're above that. How dare you insinuate such a thing!

My understanding was that several of the news organizations who were sending reporters in were sending their medical reporters who were, in fact, MD's.

I think the NYT is just whiney and too big for their britches, myself. Sure they're big. The biggest, in fact. But that doesn't give them any special rights that I know of, unless I missed something. I'd much rather have a lesser-known news outlet get a shot once in awhile.

There isn't anything especially magic about the NYT guy, except, of course, that he's liberal....

How special...

No, nothing special except that these are medical records and he's a doctor. Gosh, think he might just have understood them a little better than your average journalist?

McCain couldn't take that chance, I guess.

I do not find the release of medical records as absolute proof the candidate has no problems.
They can omit what they do not want people to know about.
Works both ways..Dem. and Rep.

Medical information on these people were mostly keep from the public.

Democrats::
Woodrow Wilson
Grover Cleveland
Franklin D. Roosevelt
Paul Tsongas
John F Kennedy

Republican
Calvin Coolidge
Ronald Regan

History: Presidents Who Hid Their Health Problems | Newsweek Health | Newsweek.com

I'm glad to hear you are amused because I wasn't sure you could be. I actually brought them into the conversation just to amuse you. My work here is done.