This isn't news to liberals.

"A companion report found that a special office set up by then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld undertook "sensitive intelligence activities" that were inappropriate "without the knowledge of the Intelligence Community or the State Department."
McClatchy Washington Bureau | 06/05/2008 | Senate committee: Bush knew Iraq statements were untrue

Here are the actua; reports:

http://intelligence.senate.gov/080605/phase2a.pdf

http://intelligence.senate.gov/080605/phase2b.pdf

I'd rather wait until all those hosers leave office and have them arrested for treason.

Good thing they're in favor of the death penalty.

Too funny!!

Whether you feel Bush should be impeached or not, those last two comments were disturbing and not at all funny.

Melissa

Treason is punishable by death. The CIC and most members of his administration are in favor of the death penalty ... what's that old adage about being hoisted on their own petard ...

Sorry you were disturbed and unamused. Better toughen up if you're gonna spend a lot of time in this forum.

Should the current President and his cronies be impeached or tried for treason--and found guilty; What punishment would you suggest?

Instead of an actual death penalty, how about we drop them off in the Sunni Triangle, with no instruction on how to get back home, no or shoddy body armour, and guns that don't fire? Oh, and make sure that they are surrounded by IEDs and snipers....

Seriously though--what punishment would be just if they were found guilty?

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Bush is responsible for the deaths of thousands. I can't help but think him receiving the death penalty for treason -- as farfetched as that is -- would be sweet justice.

Pretty farfetched to say the least!!!! Dream on!!!!Sherri

__________________
"It isn't that liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

It would be a more peaceful forum if you could control yourself and be nice, which by the way is the mature thing to do.
If you can't say something nice then don't say anything at all!! Maybe you can meditate on this for awhile and maybe it will sink in.

I don't think anything ana21 said was mean or uncontrolled. She provided sound advice that if a person was going to frequent this forum they should have a pretty tough skin or they would be offended/upset a lot.

If not the death penalty for treason, then what should the punishment be? I would really like to know what other people have to suggest....

I don't know whether the Bush administration will ever be held accountable in this world for their misdeeds.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

So you're not bothered by the fact that the administration lied to get us into a war resulting in thousands of deaths and untold thousands wounded and crippled.

Oh believe me, I know how nasty this forum can get, and my skin is fine.

Impeach Bush, find him and his entire admin guilty of treason, and if the punishment is death, so be it.

There is just nothing funny about any of it.

Pick my posts apart, twist them, read what you will into them, rephrase them to the point that they don't resemble the original intent whatsoever, have at it. All I was saying was that there is nothing funny about anyone's death.

Melissa

Nice job Melissa!!!

but what punishment would you say is fitting a person or persons who commit treason?

Death is not funny--but it often poetic justice.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I never implied death was not a fitting punishment for treason, so your question is moot.

Melissa

With all due respect to your superior sensibilities, I agree with truble who said: Bush is responsible for the deaths of thousands. I can't help but think him receiving the death penalty for treason -- as farfetched as that is -- would be sweet justice.

What sweet justice if the man who joked at a dinner party about not finding WMD in Iraq (4,000+ troops dead because of his lies); who mimicked and laughed about a woman on death row who asked for clemancy from the death penalty; was himself tried for treason and sent to death row. Sweet, sweet justice and I won't apologize for finding the thought of such well deserved punishment amusing in a dark and cynical sense. JMHO

Don't forget the people behind exposing Valerie Plame, for their own petty political reasons, which endangered U. S. agents trying to protect us from future attacks.

I like the thought of Bush getting justice on earth, but I know, without doubt, that his true justice will come after he dies, justice that will be meted out for eternity.

You're funny.

I have no idea who lied, who laughed, what the context was etc. And as much as some believe they know, they may be wrong. Who knows. I don't. I don't think we ever will. I'm not defending Bush, his administration, or anyone else. I do know that I have heard personal accounts of ppl who saw wmds in Iraq. Take it for what it's worth. Beyond that, I have no knowledge besides what is reported on the news. IMO, we don't know what we think we know, and we never will. That is just the nature of the business. (politics I mean)

If Bush is guilty, he deserves punishment. That's obvious.

And as far as my "sensibilities" are concerned, I don't find "dark" humor amusing, you're right. To each his own.

Melissa

I'm not entirely sure that Cheney's outing of Plame was illegal. Bush had given Cheney the power to declassify whatever information he chose.

It definitely damaged the security of this country and was done for petty, partisan reasons. But, would it have been illegal?

I would just as soon wait until we have a new president and the old one has no power to pardon anyone including himself.

Well here's some context on who laughed.

"President George Bush sparked a political firestorm yesterday after making what many judged a tasteless and ill-judged joke about the failure to find weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
Mr Bush made the joke at a black-tie event for radio and television journalists in Washington on Wednesday night.

He narrated a slide show, described as the White House election year album, making hay of the administration's reputation for secrecy and strained relations with European allies. But it was the joke about the war in Iraq that drew attacks.

A slide showed Mr Bush in the Oval office, leaning to look under a piece of furniture. "Those weapons of mass destruction have got to be here somewhere," he told the audience, drawing applause.

Another slide showed him peering into another part of the office, "Nope, no weapons over there," he said, laughing. "Maybe under here," he said, as a third slide was shown. ,,, "

Bush jokes about search for WMD, but it's no laughing matter for critics | World news | The Guardian

Why is it that when we mention the blood on Bush's hands we invariably refer to our 4,000 lost? Our losses pale in comparison to what we have done to the Iraqis. They are estimated to have lost as much as 1.4 million.

Bush can only be impeached or charged with treason for American deaths not Iraqis deaths.
I think it will be hard to impeach only based on the Iraq war, because it was an UN resoultion that the President was following.
Just like Bill Clinton following (keeping in place) the UN sanctions that caused the death of half a million Iraqi children.

There is certainly enough other reasons to impeach or charge Bush with treason..with the many violates of The US Constitution.

ITA kvmj and usually I try to include Iraqi dead and wounded and cripplied and our own wounded and crippled but in that post I didn't. My apologies to you and others who may take offense.

I agree -- it wasn't illegal, because Bush covered Cheney's butt and gave him leave to release what should have been confidential information. It was immoral, but not illegal.

Yes it bothers me, I have a nephew in Iraq, and he has been there twice, I worry myself sick about him and all his fellow soldiers...or anyone who is over there for that matter, but no I am not convinced that Bush flat out lied..I believe there was bad intelligence...I believe Saddam was a threat not only to the US,other countries, but a hugh threat to his own people...My nephew tells me all the time about how wonderful the Iraqi people treat the soldiers....how they thank them everyday for what they have done for them...He has sent pictures of new schools, new soccer field, kids getting computer who have never seen a computer...They have fresh water for the first time ever...they are even building malls and hotels....But of course we dont see that in the liberal media.

I belive Saddam was out to take over everywhere he could.....I believe he was working and getting WMD would have eventually had them..... just as Hillary, Kerry, CLinton, Edwards, and just about every other liberal democrat who voted for the war, looking at the same intelligence Bush looked at...I have quotes if you want them. The radical muslims are the ones left causing problems over there and of course no one wants to admit that the troop surge has helped...Saddam had Al-Quida training camps in Iraq and even paid Suicide bombers families money to blow themselves up in Israel and the Gaza strip. Saddam was warned and warned and warned and did nothing. I think he was given MORE than enough time to get rid of any WMD, what was he going to use all those underground bunkers for??????They were for Himself and his family.....he could have cared less about his own people...how many thousands have died at his hands, buried in mass graves, tortured?????? He hung dead bodies all over the city, he gassed his own family, do you think he cared for his nation???? He wanted power and he wasnt going to stop until he took over every where he could including the US.....I would much rather fight them over there than on American soil.....And people dont believe we are safer???? How could you not???? We havent been attacked since 9-11 have we???? War is war...I am sorry, people die, the innocent die...and we have had two locals here die in the war...it breaks my heart...but look at the millions who have been saved....Look at the lines at the recruiting centers after 9-11......When you join the military you know you are taking a chance at going to war....Bush's fault was he tried to fight a diplomatic war and please every one and in war you cant do that, Harry Truman didnt do that, he made hard decisions, not pleasing to everyone, but Japan never attacked us again.. We have always been a great nation, but when our own politicians will stand and denounce the United States for all the foreign countries to hear, they tear us down....We dont have to worry about another country coming in and tearing this country apart...we are doing it to ourselves....we dont stand firm on anything...everyone is afraid the may OFFEND someone else, or some other country..Why should we care????? Everything has to be politically correct...you have people like Nancy Pelosi making comments like" And some of the success of the surge is due to the goodwill of the Iranians" HUH???? Goodwill of Iranians....you know Pres. Tom who says they have no gay people over in Iran...they may not...he kills them all, oh and he is the one who wants to blow Israel off the map... and Iran is the sole provider of the weapons responsible for the literal majority of U.S. troop deaths in Iraq. Then she calls our battlefield commanders absolute failures???? Please help me understand that...Insulting our troops who are keeping her and everyone else here safe and no one cares....that she makes pathetic remarks like that.. and its ok....I dont understand this country...I really dont...Dont give me that I support our military but I dont support the war....Its crap.....If you dont support what they are doing, then you dont support them...

And it makes my skin crawl when I hear we are there for the oil???? Really then where is it....we could take over much smaller countries and take their oil if we wanted to, we didnt have to go after Iraq....How is iraqi oil helping us...since its over $4.00 a gallon....(it was just over $2.00 before our Democratic house and senate took over) And dont tell me Bush is getting rich from Iraqi oil??? If he is then so is John Edwards, John Kerry, Clintons, because they all own oil stock and stock in Military defense programs....We are destroying our country from within...I remember when you didnt speak insults of the President of the United States whether you like him or not...You had respect for the office....but not anymore....and I am not just saying since Bush..I mean several years ago people lost respect for the office....respect for our country...there are some people who would rather down the United States than any dictatorship....and yet they stay here??? AMazing....you can thank all the dead soldiers from the civil war to the beaches of normandy for that....I know Bush has made alot of mistakes...and I dont agree with him on everything.....But look at what he had to face....just a few months in office and here comes 9-11 and we were already beginning a recession, well the war didnt help that any....I sure wouldnt have wanted to President at that time....and Katrina, he gets all the blame for that....well why doesnt some of the blame belong to New Orleans's mayor and Govennor???? They got off scott free, while the mayor watched hundreds of school buses sink in water....People honestly believe Bush is responsible for Kartrina....like he bartered with God and begged him to send them a hurricane...when you live in a city...however far below sea level....Look out , something is going to happen some day....I just dont understand people who hate their own country regardless of who is the leader....We stand and bad mouth our own country for all the world to see and we are made laughing stocks...we are playing right into their hands....Like I said before I dont believe we have to worry about another 9-11 or terrorist attack we are killing our own country from within...we are doing to to ourselves....Sherri

__________________
"It isn't that liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

Strange as it sounds, it's as if you take a certain pride in your ability to disturb and offend.

I've been visiting this board for quite a while - *most* of the other posters are able to make their points wiithout the use of extra sarcasm/rude humor.

The ones that don't are consistently the ones with the weakest arguments.

Did you think it wasn't noticeable that you choose to offend (rather than be truly persuasive) so that you can get the other side to react?

So, instead of asking people to *toughen up*, how about YOU start putting a little more substance behind the rants.

You're funny.

Right back atchya, Trubbie!

Wow, Sher, I can't believe there is another point of view. I thought that everybody thought Bush and his cronies were all a bunch of criminals. I mean there are all the facts that we all know, right? j/K

thanks for the rant! nicely put.

Melissa

I just have to say to the "other side" that I really do respect how you feel, and sometimes agree, but the level of disrespect for others, whether it be Bush and Co. or members of this board take away from anything you have to say.

Melissa

I'm not sure what got your back up but if you or anyone else takes offense at extra sarcasm/rude humor or posts written to disturb and offend then you haven't been reading this forum regularly.

I'm not sure what's gotten your panties in a bunch about what I've written in this thread or any other for that matter. There are plenty of posts from all sides on this board that lack substance and I'll fess up to a few but your anger at whatever I've written in this thread or any other is IMO misplaced. I suggest you check yourself.

I don't think you or your co-horts will ever understand the lack of maturity displayed in your posts. Maybe they read the posts where the "c" word was thrown at me and have had enough of that childish behavoir. Whatever their reasons I am now officially in love with Devinsmon, Melissa and Sher218 and I'm definitely heterosexual!!! lol Thanks ladies!

Speaking from the "other side" I can say the same. I for one am getting quite tired of the presidential candidate I support being compared to Hitler and worse. Respect is a 2 way street.

I don't think I'm familar with that post. However, when you and your cohorts find glee in proposing an exectuion of Pres Bush I beg you to explain how that is not equally offensive to some. Actually it's more because whether you like it or not he is the sitting President. Ummm, maybe I should forward those threads to the FBI.....
Well if you think "our side" is that bad maybe you should report us. I am going to start reporting every nasty thread you and your cohorts post. Yes, we have free speech, but if you read the guidelines the name calling from you and your buddys are in violation. I'm sure the intent of this board is for discussions in a more mature way. The "c"word and telling me that I am a horrible Christian does not belong on here. That's just being a playground bully, nothing more.
If you find me or another of the other good folks on here calling people the "c"word and denigrating them personally please report me(them). Maybe these boards can be saved from the bullys and turned back to the way it's supposed to be.

I cannot tell you how excited I am to watch Obama the next few months. I'm willing to stick my neck out and be wrong, but I think he will implode. And guess what? There have been times that I actually thought I would vote for him, but the more that has been revealed, the more creeped out I am. I respect him as a nominee, and have to hand it to him for pulling it off, but I really don't thnk he'll be able to pass muster.

And you know what has occurred to me? It's all been of his own doing. Noone has had to dig anything up.

I don't want to vote at all at this rate....

Melissa

Other than I'm not excited about watching Obama implode, I tend to agree with everything else you said.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Oh good grief. What is this, the second grade. Here's a link to the FBI: Federal Bureau of Investigation - Contact Us

Not sure how to report a post to MC administrators but I'm sure you'll figure it out. Get my name right please.

I'll mark this day on my calender, Marilyn. hehe just kidding....:0)

Melissa


ps Marilyn was my mother's name, and I miss her. I have no idea why I felt the need to mention that, but there it is.

Wow! I must have really got under your skin. You must be really angry over the whole use of the "c" word---you keep bringing it up. I readily admit that I behaved badly and shouldn't have used that word. I still think you have anger issues and are a hypocrit, but I was wrong to use that word. And for letting my irritation get the best of me, I do apologize to you.

And, I didn't call you a horrible Christian--I said you profess to be a Christian but you posts on the board don't support that. I do think that if you toned down your sarcasm and heated rants you might appear a little more Christ like. Just an observation.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

You know ana21, it's not the second grade, but I think that ppl that want to be nasty rely on the fact that the reciever's of their nastiness will just take it and not use the resources at their disposal to deal with it. Maybe Kathy's plan will work, maybe not. We'll see.


And I think you would use the "report a post" icon at the right hand corner of each post to report a post. But I've been known to be wrong. lol

Melissa

Well if I'm in second grade then you are still in diapers. No, I'm not going to report you to the FBI, not worth my time!!!
Yes, I have made four reports to adminstrators so far. Hopefully they will try to watch this board more carefully and patrol the bullys. And yes, I did spell your name correctly. My eyes aren't as good as they used to be so I don't always get everything spelled correctly even though I am intelligent.

Yes, someone using the "c" word on here is undefensable no matter what you think of someone. I don't have anger issues and I am not a hyprocrt.
So you want to apologize finally but still have to tell me "whats wrong with me". Thank you for showing us that you really aren't that sincere.

Excellent! I'm going to try that too! I have sent messages to the president, a ninja, and two others. We'll see what happens!

can you please call off the ninja, they scare me.

Melissa

OK--I was just telling you what my perception of you is based on your postings.

Whether you accept the apology is up to you. I should not have said/posted it. I was wrong.

Regardless of my apology, I still do have opinion of you (as you obviously have of me). I wish you health, happiness and peace. And with that, please put me on your ignore list--so you don't have to read my posts nor respond to the--if you can't let the anger go and move on.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I had you on blocked once but I want to be able to see what nasty things you are saying about me on here BECAUSE THAT DOESN'T BELONG ON HERE. Really, you don't need to give anyone your opinion of them personally do you? If you feel the need to call someone names or point out how negative you think they come across what good does that do? If you are really concerned about someone maybe you should have sent them a private message. But then you wouldn't get the satisfaction of seeing it on here for all to see. And for your buddys to jump in with there negative opinons also.
Sure, I'll accept your apology because I am a good Christian. Hopefully you will not make anymore posts you have to end up apologizing for.

I would like you to specifically tell me where I have been as you put it "nasty". I have been sarcastic and have a sense of humor that may not be appreciated by everyone but we are supposedly adults on this board. If you find my posts offensive or as you put it "disturbing" feel free to report them. Alternatively, save yourself some grief and put me on your ignore list and save us both (and the FBI and MC mods) the aggravation of having to respond to such silly pettiness.

I quoted in post #28 what "got my back up" Nobody needs the *disclaimers* thrown at them from some of the most common posters here (you just happen to be the most recent one) suggesting that posters need to "toughen up" if they want to hang here. It's silly, really - it reminds me of what a girl in a street gang would say. Last I checked, this was a MC board - hardly hard core! LOL...

This makes no sense to me, and I venture to guess- to anyone else who comes to this board. You suggest here that if one had been coming here regularly, one wouldn't take offense to the "extra sarcasm/rude humor"...I don't think longevity has anything to do with it.

That last quote is classic - and you probably don't even see the irony you painted here.

No reason to check myself. I am definitely not angry - just making a point that seems to have YOU pretty defensive...

Anyone is welcome here. Really - anyone. These are our boards. Be ready to hear about it when you start pitching fits and throwing classless insults at people instead of making a good point. Learn to debate.

Can you honestly say that had I PM'd you my opinion of you it would have made any difference at all?

If so, then by all means, let us discuss this by PM. I'm open to discussion, I'm ok w/ someone telling me what they think of me. And you know what? Sometimes, it actually causes me to stop and thinking, and on occasion it has caused me to change. I have found that when I start getting defensive about people's observations about me is when they are closest to the truth.

I'm sure that we all will make posts we need to apologize for--whether it's intentional or unintentional. It's obvious that we're on opposite sides of the aisle--but we can disagree cordially, or agree to disagree.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Coridality on here would be wonderful.
No, I wouldn't want to pm with you about what you think of me. As I stated you gives you the authority to bash people? You have a record of it. It's not just that one post.

Cordiality on here would be wonderful.
No, I wouldn't want to pm with you about what you think of me. As I stated who gives you the authority to bash people? You have a record of it. It's not just that one post.

So -- what WAS the original topic? LOL

ana21, I didn't say you were nasty. I said people who are nasty. Seriously, I have little recollection of who posts what most times. So, let's take the word nasty out. Same point. Maybe nasty is in the eye of the beholder, in fact I'm sure it is.

Melissa

OOH, OOH, I know.......Impeaching Bush.

I cheated and had to go check though.

Melissa

OK....I'm not the only one who bashes. And what ever "authority" I have, is the same one that you and many other have used. I readily admit that I have been verbally aggressive to some people. If you can not look at some of your posts and see the same in your posts, I truly believe you aren't being honest with yourself. Just about everyone who posts on this board has been aggressive/nasty/snarky/whatever...and most will admit to it.

I'm truly sorry that you have such animosity towards me. I'm not real sure what in particular I ever did you (before the whole c word incident). Whatever it was, it was not intentionally and assuming that I either offended you or hurt your feelings--I do apologize.
Or do you just hate me because I had an abortion and am not sorry for it?

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Or do you just hate me because I had an abortion and am not sorry for it?[/quote]


Holy cow, I forgot all about that. Of course I don't hate ANYONE who's had an abortion. Even if a woman has had 20 I only feel the deepest empathy for her. Most of us pro-lifers don't hate post-abortive women. Quite the oppostie actually-hence Rachels Vineyard retreats, etc ...

Marilyn, a true Christian knows that we are all sinners hence we would never judge a person who's post-abortive. I feel bad for you that you had to be in a situation to have to make that decision. It's certainly never an easy one to make.

can't we all just play nice now? Lots of misunderstandings, water under the bridge, till the next debate! lol

debate, don't hate.

Melissa

ps...that was for you devinmom lol

Debate don't hate is an awesome slogan!! That rocks!!!

Marilynk, I thought that was pretty big of you to acknowledge that a word you wrote was seen as offensive and to apologize. Thumbs up for that.

As to the OP, I don't think Bush will be impeached. I do feel enough evidence is there and we may see some more investigations, though.
No, this was not a surprise.
And Richard Clark was right.

__________________
@@@
l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

Debate, Don't Hate

I love it!

I think the deterioration of this thread started with a poster who said she found a remark I made in response to another poster "disturbing". I responded that I could appreciate her not finding it funny but she needed to toughen up if she found it disturbing. I wasn't being sarcastic and I meant it sincerely because I've read other posts from her and she strikes me as a very kind woman and not a frequent poster on the politics forum. I feel strongly about the wrongs I think have been committed by the current administration and give them no quarter in my judgement of them. She took great offense at my posting and I understand that but I don't think I was particularly rude or sarcastic.

Can you honestly tell me that you haven't read posts about Senator Obama and his supports comparing him to Hitler and those of us who admire him as nazi followers. Those are the types of posts I was referring to from "the other side" which contain sarcasm/rude humor. The rude sarcastic behavior comes from both sides.

I'm not sure where your anger directed at me specifically comes from but I think in all fairness you've overreacted.