From Post #51:

Quote:
Originally Posted by momrajum
So, even though the majority of the US believes gay marriage/lifestyle to be immoral and yet some conservatives are willing to meet more than half way to begin to accept this, it is just not good enough. Melissa


With my reply....
How generous of you to be willing to meet half-way to allow people the benefits of EQUAL rights afforded all people in this country. Very generous indeed......

And your reply to that post:

momrajum



I am so sorry that the change that YOU want isn't happening overnight, and that ppl are trying to become acclimated to it and it's just taking too long.

twist twist twist...

Melissa

Yes I can see why you would be so upset that my expectation would be that the rules of this country apply to ALL citizens, not just the ones you find morally acceptable and deserving of protection and rights under our laws….how dare I expect laws on the books to be followed now instead of when your sensibilities are ready to accept the laws that already exist

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

WOW, can't believe how much discussion is going on about Gay Marriage.

I have not read all the posts in the other threads on this, but, did anyone offer up an answer to what threat legalizing gay marriage would pose to them???

I, too, am trying to sort thru my feelings and opinions on the subject, and am leaning towards legalizing gay marriage. I truly think being "gay" is out of the control of a person, much like a mental handicap (not saying gays are mentally handicapped), and mentally handicapped people are allowed to marry, so why not gays???

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Nope, not one person has come up with one reason as to why gays shouldn't be allowed to marry.

Just that it's "wrong."

No one has come up with a "good" reason why marriage is only between 2 people. Other than that it is against our laws.

google: CALIFORNIA SB 777
That may provide some answers

SB777 is a student's civil rights in public school act.
What does that have to do with the subject at hand: This is a fact sheet for SB777

Home - Equality California

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

Matthew 19:4 -And he answered and said unto them, Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female, (19:4-5)
19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder


This is the Bible's definition of marriage. I know a lot of you don't believe or care to believe what the Bible says. That's your free will to do so. It's also MY free will to believe it is true. Those of you who don't believe what the Bible says -- you don't have the right to tell me (and others on this Board) how WE are wrong and to be so mean-spirited in your replies and imply that you and only you are right.

For me, the term marriage is something my husband and I have had for over 30 years. My parents had it for over 60 years. The word 'marriage' holds special meaning to us. It's a term that God used to define the vows my husband and I took that special day many years ago. For that word 'marriage' to be used to define what two males or two females want to do does offend me. That is my personal belief.

There is nothing sacred anymore. Anything goes. Nothing's wrong. No one is accountable for anything. As far as a 'threat', as some have called it, the threat is that very slowly the United States is losing all grounds of moral beliefs and spiritual beliefs.

As you yourself said, your beliefs are your beliefs and your morals are your morals. Those have nothing to do with the equal rights for all laws passed and in existence and enforceable in this great nation of ours. No one is asking you to give up your religion or beliefs or morals....all people are asking for is enforcement of equal rights laws. If that is offensive to you, change the laws.

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

I think I do understand your reasoning, your beliefs are based on the Bible, and you live your life according to the things in the Bible. I do understand that, and respect that. Can the Bible be brought into law? Not everyone believes in the Bible or it's interpretations. So, legally, what is wrong about gay marriage, I guess is my question.

I, personally, am not asking you to defend your position, just looking for a factual accounting from someone on what would be wrong legally with 2 same sex people marrying each other?

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

oh that is particularly rich coming from you.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Excuse me?

When someone believes the Bible and someone doesn't believe the Bible, then you could try to explain till eternity why it would be wrong legally for 2 same sex people marrying each other and it could never be understood thru the other person's eyes. I thought I just said why I thought it is wrong legally for that to happen -- because I believe that marriage is reserved for a male and a female. Just like others believe it can be for 2 males or 2 females or a male and female, I don't believe that. For those who believe the Bible, THAT is a factual accounting.

This topic has gone thru five threads now and still the same thing is being said in each thread. Maybe just different wording and more heated discussions. I guess it's sort of like beating a dead horse now because neither side is going to change their views!

Brings to mind that old Barbara Bush quote about Geraldine Ferraro . . . of course, after Ferraro's behavior recently, I think Babs was right!

Religious laws and legal laws are totally different....our country is govered by LEGAL laws

And either side CAN choose to vow never to change their views, but the law is the law is the law

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

The Bible is not our law, tho. I understand you think morally gay marriage is wrong, but morals are not legalities.

I have only chimed in on a few of the posts, and from what I am seeing the people against it are against it for moral reasons. That is their personal belief, tho, and not the law. Kind of like abortion.....many are against it morally, but, it is legal to have an abortion.

I'm bowing out of this one now, as yes, there have been 5 threads on it, and it is going basically no where.

I will say, tho, that before this thread I was a bit on the fence, and now think that legally same sex couples should be allowed.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Cause one guy isn't suppoed to put his thingie up another mans rear end!!!!! How's that? Good enough for me!!!

What in the h3!! does that have to do with marriage? Is your marriage based on how and in what positions you have sexual intercourse.

Quite an ignorant statement!!!

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

WOW. Just wow. Just how low class. And you had the nerve to try and talk bad about Marilyn. Pot, please say hello to kettle.

eta: I agree w/ Jeanie. Maybe we should start issuing heterosexual marriage licenses based SOLELY upon which sexual positions they decide to engage in. Then no one will have to offend your sensitive sensibilities. Although I'm sure you would then find something else to complain about.

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Can he put it in his mouth? What about about lesbians? If I wanna take it up the "rear end" is that ok with you since I'm hetero? Just what are your sexual rules that the rest of us should live by?

Seriously though, just what were you thinking with that post?

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

OMG, how one statement can make me form an overall opinion of you. I am speechless...

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I dream to escape!

OMG!!!! I am ROFLMAO......thank you all, I needed a good laugh today. OMG....and here I thought we were all mature enough to say Penis....silly me.....and,yes, I did say I was bowing out of this one, but, KTS.....OMG.....just O.......M.............GAWD!!!!

I am LOVING the humor, keep it coming ladies (no pun intended.....heheheh).

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

The reason gay marriage is not legal is due to close minded bigots like Kathytheshopper. You really should be ashamed of yourself. Do you also call black people niggers?

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I dream to escape!

THIS IS SO HILARIOUS!!! I just did that to see how quickly you folks would jump all over me again!! I win!!!!

Yes, you are right, you are definitely a "winner"

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

All you proved was that you are a close minded looser who has the maturity of a child. Please continue to play your petty games and show everyone your true colors!

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I dream to escape!

Guess what....nobody here believes you. You just got caught showing your true, ignorant colors and have tried to come up with this lame excuse. Nice try.....but we are not buying it. You just showed yourself for the lowlife, intolerant idiot that you are. And yeah, you "win" in only exposing yourself even to those who bought your lines before....you never fooled us!

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

Wow, I was right all along!

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GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Win? No way, you fail!

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

I feel so sorry for you. I really do.

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Ya know...the next thing they will want to ban is marriage between folks of different religions!

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Amazing. I asked you something in an earlier post but deleted it this morning because it didn't sound nice. However, I will ask it now and I won't delete it.

Do you even think about what you are writing before you hit the submit button?

Mind you, this isn't a personal attack, since I know how much that bothers some people. And, I doubt this statement is reflective of anyone who posts here. However, it seems to me, some people who don't understand this complex issue are are old, divorced, on antidepressants, and have anxiety problems and panic attacks. Apparently, they haven't figured out how to be happy and live a fulfilling life, but they feel the right to tell other loving and healthy people how they should or shouldn't live? I wonder why this is?

Obviously, 5 threads later, this argument has mostly gone nowhere. People who are pro gay marriage haven't changed their minds, and they are as unlikely to change their minds as people who are against it. If one was to go through all five threads at this point, I think we'd find that there is one person who twice told us that she was now, after reading through all the points, most likely to be in the "pro" side. However, I'd venture to guess that she already was leaning that way, as her position on many liberal issues suggests.

What I do see is well thought-out posts from the side that is against gay marriage (of course I see them - that's the side I'm on...). Every time I saw three or more excellent points brought up, I saw someone from the "pro" side zero in on a point that could be twisted, and would run with it. We all saw it.

On the same token, I saw one poster who I almost never agree with from the "pro" side - and she would actually ask thought-provoking questions, and would acknowledge a post from the "other" side when she saw something she agreed with. It didn't change my mind, but it made for discussion/debate rather than what this reduced to in the end.

This particular statement from nightowlrn is so interesting - obviously you can find that "some people who don't understand this complex issue are old, divorced, on antidepressants, etc..." you will (and you DO) find such people on both ends of this issue. Why throw out such a judgemental statement? In doing so, you've actually offended people on both ends of this debate.

What's wrong with old people?
What's wrong with divorced people?
What's wrong with those on antidepressants?
What's wrong with people who experience anxiety or panic attacks?

Back to the original topic, my thoughts on the issue won't be changed on a mycoupons board, as I imagine most others' won't be changed.

Interestingly enough though, we began seeing more and more closed-minded and judgemental voices from the liberal camp. That was weird!! I thought liberals were supposed to be the open-minded ones. If they truly were, then the pro-gay marriage voices wouldn't have sounded so condemning, black-and-white, right-and-wrong, good-and-bad. Again, I make one exception. I really only saw one poster on the "pro" side who, while her mind was already made up, was staying out of the conservative-bashing talk, and was responding respectfully to people's posts.

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

Hmm. I didn't see it, nor did I see any well thought-out posts from the anti-gay marriage side. Could you specifiy which ones you're talking about?


Open minded? Open minded to what -- erasing people's civil rights? Segregation? Cross burning?

Open minded isn't always good if what you're open minded to is evil. Some things are black and white. Slavery is wrong. Discrimination is wrong. Unequal pay for equal work is wrong.

Being anti-gay marriage is wrong.

Well, since lesbians typically use the same body parts "down there" as men do or a strap-on, I guess you are ok w/ that!

I really, really, really hope you are as stupid and/or ignorant IRL as you are here. I don't buy the whole "I just posted for shock factor"....that might fly if you only posted ocassionally. But you post this kind of crap all the time!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Actually, I did the post just to see what would happen. I haven't been on here for awhile and I wanted to see if the vulutres would bite. And it proved my point better than any long thought out post!!!! One post and the name calling starts again!!!!!! Hence the test post.
PS - for all of you who are "worried" about me and my life-I've never been happier. I have a wonderful life!!!! No need to post about how miserable my life must be!!!

Right. Keep on selling that.

Yes, I have heard ignorance is bliss--you must be one blissful person.

And of course some of us are going to comment on complete and utter hate speech!

I have no problem with a person having religious beliefs and convictions. But, gay marriage is not about morality, just like bi-racial marriages or mixed religion marriage wasn't--it's about legalities and everyone being treated equally. It's not about sexual positions either---for all we know you like to hang by your ankles and swing from the ceiling while making love to your DH--and would anyone have a right to judge you because you choose something that's a bit "abnormal"??

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

If you think that ANYONE believes your line that this was just a test, you are truly delusional. You just got caught with your ugly true-colors flying high and nasty and dirty. Not a surprise to most to us here who have seen your inner ugliness, but some here must have been very hurt and disappointed by your viciousness. The stronger and longer you deny it, the more pitiful you look.

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

Sorry, I'm not buying it either. Here is what you said in another post on the Gay Marriage thread(s)

"If you want a nonBiblical idea how about human anatomy? Men and women are made complementary and made to procreate. Men and men together can't do that physically, the same with woman/woman. That has nothing to do with religious beliefs - just a simple look at anatomy ought to give us some clues!! If men/men and women/women are supposed to be a couple then I think men and women would have the necessary "parts" to procreate. It's just not that way."

Kathy, I understand your Biblical stance, but, honestly, the way you present it, it is a close minded stance and you are really turning people off to your way of thinking. I think there is a way to say something that shows your feelings and does not offend people.

Just wondering how you would feel if your DS or brother or some other close male relative were gay??

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Keep it up folks, you just keep proving my point!!! I must really get on your nerves if you have to spend the time digging up old posts. lol
FI I have many gay cousins and I love 'em all!

How very generous of you.

Yah, that statement reminds me of Pee Wee Herman falling off his bike ..... "I MEANT TO DO THAT!!"

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Do they have any idea of what a BIGOT you are and how you wish to deprive them of their civil rights?

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

Wow this just must be my day! I just read through all the posts on this topic and figured I had better chime in.
You see today I spent 2 hours trying to explain to 2 teenagers that it was morally wrong as well as illegal to
"gay bash" my son. Through repeated texts, emails, and phone calls which resulted in my son walking away again these boys repeatedly called my son a faggot, a queer, a homo, and several other choice words.
This is not new to my son. He came out several years ago and declared it a gift to himself. Did he chose to be gay? No.
Did he always know he was gay? No. He realized he liked boys around the same time that his friends realized they liked girls. Did it change who he is as a person? No. Everyday of his life now is spent defending himself. I have picked up the pieces when he was beaten up in the bathroom at school by 5 students and I will continue to pick up the pieces when ignorant people treat him with complete and utter disrespect. It breaks my heart to see stupid people continually bash him as though he were not even human. I believe that everyone has a right to their own beliefs and if religion is their moral compass that is great but please dont deny my child the rights and opportunites that you yourself are entitled to.
Someday he will want to have a loving committed relationship with someone of the same sex and you can bet your boots I will be right there to support him.
The irony of todays altercation was that these boys claim to belong to a very religious family and that they dont believe that being gay is acceptable. Funny... I thought committing hate crimes was considered wrong in most churches. It is in mine. I wonder how proud their bishop would be if he knew what they did....

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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us"
---Ralph Waldo Emerson---

Bravo!

What your son has had to endure is no different than racial/ethnic discrimination....Just as a person has no control over their race/ethnicity, we have no control over our sexual orientation.

While I am sure MY God is not the same God that some posters here believe in---I'm pretty sure that you and I (and your son) have the same God. So, may God bless you and he!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

kgbmom, I just want to say I am sorry for how your son is being treated. I commend you for being his strength and support.
Many hugs to both of you.

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l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

KGBKMom--your son is honored to have you as his Mom, his support and his core. It is abhorrent when people, of any age, are allowed to abuse in the name of religion. My God is also a kind, supportive, nurturing God who would never condone the actions or words of the ignorant who use their "religion" to perpetrate hate crimes and hate speech. I am sure that your son WILL find a committed relationship in his future because you have raised him to be a compassionate individual with beliefs in himself. I am sure it will be a beautiful LEGAL ceremony to behold. Kudos to you and your son for your strength!

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

Kgbmom, I'm so sorry he has to deal w/ bigots like that. But he's sooo lucky to have a mom like you!

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"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Thank you guys for your thoughtful replies. I can only hope that some may see things in a different perspective and consider their hurtful words. I love my son and think he is the most awesome person I know. I tell him that when I grow up I want to be like him!

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"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies within us"
---Ralph Waldo Emerson---

Your son is lucky to have a mother like you and it sounds like you're lucky to have such a great son, too. Or maybe it's not luck at all, just hard work and good sense and an open heart and mind.

My heart breaks to hear you talk of how he's suffered at the hands of self-righteous bigots. Sadly, there are far too many of those in the world.

Very well said kgbmom, Thank You!

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"Madison AnnMarie " 6/13/2008

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