But I'm mulling this over.

For quite some time, the liberal position has been that the evil US has been sitting like a fat cat using all the oil in the world while the other nations are jealous and hate us for it. We were chastised for being fuel hogs who didn't care about anyone else.

Now suddenly other nations are industrializing and using the same types of fuel we do. The people that control the worldwide oil supply see an opportunity to slow production and charge a lot more per barrel than anyone ever thought possible.

The Chicken Littles are saying that the sky is falling and we're about to run out of oil.

(Not that I think we're really about to run out of oil... just trying to follow the logic...)

If there was never enough oil to support the world anyway, was it inappropriate guilt that was being placed on us for 'hogging' all the oil?

Throughout the years we have relied on petroleum-based fuels, did other nations really care? Did the technology exist within their borders for them to even make use of petroleum-based fuels? Were they getting less and we getting more? Or did they just not have any use for it, period?

And what does a 72 degree house have to do with anything?

Where I live, my AC runs on coal-fueled electricity. Right now it's 80 in my house and I'm perfectly comfortable. Last year I used 1444 KWH for the May/June reporting period. This year I watched our consumption and took it down to 1250, and am feeling pretty darn proud of myself for it.

But really.... does it change anything for anyone other than my pocketbook? In 30 years are we going to be accused of hogging all the coal for generations, leaving those in Saudi Arabia jealous of us for our 72-degree homes?

No, wait. Apparently people are already jealous of that.

See - I said I didn't have a point! LOL

Well, what I have to add, that also does not have any point, and might not at all relate to your post, is that I think it is time for another country to start being the protector and financial supporter of all the other countries. Let somebody else send financial support and keep our dollars for the homeless, hungry and underinsured in our own country. China is very quickly becoming a world super-power (and, incidentally, to tie this in with this thread a bit) a huge user of natural resources and oil from other nations. I want to remain a compassionate nation of people, but more like Switzerland---neutral. Maybe we will become less of a target in the world and we can at the same time tend to the needy here at home.

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

I generally agree with this. Sort of.

There are some horrible things that go on in the world that I think if we have the power to stop them, it's not always a bad thing for us to step in. I'm talking things like genocide here - not famine.

We'll never solve world hunger by giving people food. It's just not possible, because the hungry are starved thanks to their own malicious governments purposely keeping them in bondage.

I think our non-profits do a commendable job. My daughter just got back from church camp and was so moved by an organization that did a presentation on how many people they could feed for $1 (twenty, by the way!) and how little food those people get that she came home begging me to let her give $500 of the $650 she has to her name so that she could feed 20,000 people. We have some of the most generous souls in the world here, and I think there will always be people moved to help the starving.

I just don't know that it should be the business of our government.

This made my eyes water a bit. What a loving, caring sweetie you have! You must be so proud of her.

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OPEC doe not set the crude oil price. They do decide how much oil they are going to put on the market.
The pricing comes from the 3 major markets.

Does OPEC Set Crude Oil Prices?

Several factors are happening right now to cause the price to go up.

One, you have already pointed out.. demands are raising, especially from other countries of more oil.

Another one is termed "speculation"..but most do not make the "weak falling dollar" connection. People are trying to put their "wealth" into something that is safer than the US dollar. They want to keep their value of their assests. So more people/hedge funds/ etc are putting their assests into oil. commodities, pecious metals.

She is. She's truly just about the most selfless 13 year old you could ever meet.

She bought a hat and a sackpack with the organization's logo on them. A company had donated all the hats/sackpacks/etc., so every penny from the sale of the items went straight to that $.05/cup dehydrated soup they send overseas.

She keeps saying to herself, "It felt so GOOD to feed 400 people!"

You have done a great job, Mom!

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Mary

Nah, I really can't take any credit. She's a softie and is very easily moved to generosity. I tend to be hesitant, need all the facts, check all the angles.... and am much more cautious with my giving decisions.

She just has a huge heart. I can only attribute it to God. While I don't think my example has been *bad*... it certainly hasn't been as unencumbered as the spirit of kindness and selflessness she shows every day. She's quite the girl.

Impressive.

You are lucky to have such a socially aware teen.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

I have read that we, the USA, use 25% of the world's energy/resources, I forget exactly how it went. I think we are 5% of the population of the World.

I think that we are a very wasteful society, as if our actions don't matter. If we can afford it, we can use it however we want seems to be the mindset. We have so much excess....think of all the bins, boxes, totes, etc. that we store all this excess in.

I think we are a rather wasteful and arrogant society. That is how I think others see us, too. I think we, as a country, help others partly so we can say "hey, look how great and powerful we are......you'd better stay in our good graces".

I try my best not to be wasteful and am trying to teach my kids the same things.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

You're right - we are very fortunate.

Some months ago she was at a weekend teen church retreat and this same organization was there. We were staying at an Embassy Suites (which was where the event was held) and the kids all ate their meals buffet-style in a large hall. One afternoon they went into what they thing was a singing time while the food service staff got lunch ready. There were very few chairs in the room, and the kids were instructed to all stand in the middle. There were several hundred of them. The lady at the microphone had people stand or sit based on the color of their shirts, their hair color, etc. There did happen to be four tables in the room set lavishly, and by the end of the presentation, 24 people were sitting at those tables, many were on the floor, and about 25% of those in the room were sitting in chairs. She explained who lived where - those at the table represented people living in the industrialized world, regardless of where they fell on the scale of 'rich' or 'poor', since even the poorest in our nation tend to have more access to at least *some* food than imporverished African nations.

In the end, they served a very, very nice meal to those at the tables, a single hot dog to those in the chairs, and those of us on the floor got 1/2 a cup of the re-hydrated soup. I have to say it tasted horrible - but if it was the only food to which I had access, it would've rated right up there with a T-bone.

And that was lunch.

We all thought, "Oh, neat activity - what a way to make a point! Now.... where's lunch?"

Um, that was lunch. It drove the point home. For those who had skipped breakfast to go from Friday PM supper to Saturday PM supper without anything else to eat ... well, they were hungry. Except that the lady explianed to them that compared to places where people go several days without food, they really weren't hungry at all.

DD was at that event, and it made a big impact on her. When she encountered them again last week, she was ready to sign up to actually take the food overseas herself.

[quote=allinaugust;3009917]I have read that we, the USA, use 25% of the world's energy/resources, I forget exactly how it went. I think we are 5% of the population of the World.

I think that we are a very wasteful society, as if our actions don't matter. If we can afford it, we can use it however we want seems to be the mindset. We have so much excess....think of all the bins, boxes, totes, etc. that we store all this excess in.
QUOTE]


Here's what I'm having trouble reconciling with this position, though....

I read the other day that China eats 85% of the world's rice supply. They actually import some rice from us, which I found interesting.

But I don't suffer from rice envy, as much as I love rice.

It's something that is inherant in their culture. To them, it is a staple. To us, it's a side dish. Since the way we do things isn't built around it, and since their having it in no way *prevents* me from having rice when I need it, I could care less if they have it for every single meal. They could use 95% of it and I wouldn't care. If they imported even MORE from us, I think the US would be happy to sell it and help our own economy.

When I think of Eurpoean nations, I'm aware of how very close together they are, and how small they are. It's feasable for them to have monorails and other mass-transit forms in a way that just isn't practical for us as a nation. We're a large, large land mass with an awful lot of nothing in between - as well as a lot of rough terrain. Then when I think of third world countries... they're not in a position to even use the energy sources that fuel us. If we gave them 12% of the world's energy resources, they'd ask, "And I'm supposed to do what with this stuff?" Go to Brazil and you'll see that they run on a fuel that is largely made of... is it a sugar cane by-product? They have vast oil resources but use something different and are happy to *sell* their oil to countries that to use it.

We could complain that they use 90% of the world's sugar cane-generated fuel.... but we don't, because we aren't set up to use it. It's no skin off our back.

So when I hear the stat that we use 25% of the world's resources, I think it's misleading. Does that mean of all the petroluem that is used in the world, we use 25% of it? Or does that include coal? Natural gas? And *would* the rest of the world *like* to use it? Is our *using* it preventing them from having what they want/need?

Frequently, I think the US tends to overestimate how jealous other nations are of it, or apologize for things that don't need apologizing for. There's this odd mix of pride and humility I don't think you find elsewhere. In cases where jealousy exists, I think that same jealousy applies to other first-world countries as well. Otherwise, there's irritation at people who assume their audience is American, and sometimes amusement at things like Vegas (excess!), and patriotic everything (just plain odd). Also, the assumption that other countries even want to be American tends to be annoying. For the record, I'm not writing about countries who seek war with the US here, just the attitudes in general as I've seen them, and grew up with them. I'm Canadian by birth.

This is something I've really wondered about. Do people in Germany just sit around at their supper tables with big scowls on their faces discussing how jealous they are of us? People in Brazil? I know people in Mexico sit around and hatch plans for how to *get* here, apparently, because many of them follow through with such plans!

That's another thing I don't get.... the whole Mexico thing. It's a gorgeous country with tremendous resources. What is it about their governmental structure that seems to *not* help elevate their economy? It shocks me how underdeveloped much of Mexico is, especially in light of their proximity to the US.

ETA: I don't think the average American is a greedy, self-serving human. I think most of us are just living our lives, working, raising our kids, etc. Yes, there are those with lavish lifestyles. Many of them live in Hollywood and New York and spend inordinate amounts of money on things like artwork and foreign cars and furniture. Those people *do* exist, but I'll bet 999/1000 of Americans live much more 'regular' lives.

Every nation has their 'haves' and 'have nots'. Our 'haves' just so happen to get a lot of media time. That doesn't mean they are *typical* Americans.

ETA again...: I have *opinions* or *perceptions* about a lot of countries that may or may not be based in reality. Either way, those opinions and thoughts don't occupy my mind very much. If you asked me what I thought about France and it's politics, I'd give a negative reveiw. But that doesn't mean I spend a lot of time dwelling on it. Do citizens of other nations really waste a lot of energy stewing about America's citizens? Or are they mostly just busy living *their* lives like we are?

I really don't think that there's a single country in the world that is jealous of the US. Germans are proud of being German. The French are proud of being French. The Iraqis are proud of being Iraqi. They have much longer histories than ours.

Do you think they are as pre-occupied with us as we're led to believe?

The countries that we have good relations such as France, Germany, Canada, etc do not sit around and think about us all the time.
On the other hand, the countries that we have imposed sanctions against do habor more anger toward the US. Examples such as Iran, Cuba, etc. The people going though the hard times because of economic
sanctions blame the US for their problems.

I think a lot of countries are concerned about what we've done and what we might do in the future. But, preoccupied? No way.

Well, according to Obama's quote (see above), he thinks they are!

They're right to do so. The Iranian people actually like us. Cuba will be ready to fight once Castro dies. They've been told to expect an attack.

When did the US become the saviour of all countries?
Who gave us the right to invade countries and try to force Democracy down their throats?
Who is to say that because a country practices a different form of government, has a majority of people who are NOT Christian, has different moral and ethical beliefs than the US--they are in the wrong and should be enlightened?

I have a very dear friend in Iraq--and with a little luck and the grace of God he will be home in a few months--and I know the good work that he and his unit are doing over there. He's actually w/ a group that is training the Iraqi Army. I have some of the most haunting pictures of little Iraqi children that he's sent me. (see below) They love the US armed forces.




And I get that Saddam Hussein was a bad, evil dictator---but, what have we done in Darfur or Chad or any number of countries that have bad, evil men in charge? We simply cannot be all things, to all countries. One would have thought that Vietnam would have taught that very important lesson. When do we, as a country, say enough is enough and take care of what's going on within our borders?

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I think "jealous" is the wrong term perhaps. Resentful might be better. There are parts of the world hanging on our upcoming election because the result will probably have a direct effect on them in some way. The Europeans are far more up on our politics that many of us are on theirs. So the resentment may be because of our effect on their lives over which they have so little control. They have no say in who we elect, yet who we elect will often have an impact on them.

As far as their perceptions of us go, those perceptions in many parts of the world, other than in Europe, come from TV shows and movies. They see and hear nothing of the "everyday" American and they see the shows over and over again, that make them think that all of us live in huge houses, have swimming pools, expensive cars and travel around the world at the drop of a hat. We also have mass murderers and torturers in every city, a population who mostly carry guns to protect themselves from the gangs and the mass murderers.

I can remember a trip to Norway many many years ago to visit my husbands family. His relatives all spoke English, but with British accents because they all watch BBC on TV. We got grilled on the politics of the moment at each new house we went to. They knew all about our Congress and the bills being passed. They knew about our president and disliked him and were very interested in our feelings about the man and different actions that had been taken. But they still had trouble believing that the trip over there was, for us, a challenge financially, and that we would not be returning very soon. They wouldn't have the money to come here, but surely we could afford to go there again. BTW their standard of living was very high then and i understand is higher now.

What's sad about this is that these Norwegians are better informed than the population of the US. I think that what the people of other countries like about America is the idea of equal opportunity and justice. I think they are well aware of what we threw away in the last 7 years. We aren't very well thought of.

It's not our consumption habits. It's our foreign and domestic policy.

[quote=wowitsdark;3009922]I understand what you're saying. The more I think about it, I think it pertains more to the global warming effects, and basically just how greedy and wasteful we are. I don't know if the 25% is gas, coal, oil and everything else included.

I think other nations are beginning to need/use more of the energy suppies, definitely China is. They really need to step up their environmental protection laws, or get some, or something.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

[quote=allinaugust;3010115]China is making more progress towards clean energy policies than we are. They just continue to use more and more everyday. Don't forget India. They're working on a middle class for the first time.

From what I've seen of China in the news with the Olympics on the way, their clean energy policies don't look too clean to me. Our athletes are actually afraid of running and breathing the air in China. That's a huge concern to them. People walk around wearing surgical masks over their faces just so they won't have to breathe the horrid air.

I heard today that they will be restricting driving for certain cars on certain days to help "clear the air".

I would like to see some hard evidence that China is making more progress towards clean energy than the US.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I agree - I would like to see this as well.

Generally speaking, their standards seem to be much lower than ours. I wouldn't exactly want to chew on a Chinese toy, if you know what I mean.

Interestingly, while we supposedly use 25% of the world's resources (and again, I still don't quite understand what that means), we aren't, from what I understand, the world's biggest polluter. I don't subscribe to the manmade global warming theory, but if I did, I'd find it cause for pause that other nations produce far more of the pollution that's thought to cause greenhouse gasses than the US. Yes, we may use more oil than those countries, but by and large we use it 'cleaner' and with greater efficiency. In other words, if we use 25% of the oil that is consumed in the world, we *don't* happen to also be guilty of causing 25% of the pollution.

Interestingly, a vegan website I just googled asserts this:

Alrighty then.

Think there is any agenda behind that one? lol

I'm actually referring to research. China has come up with some promising new technologies. The USA has expended very little time and energy into alternate sources of energy. China generates its electricity primarily from coal. It's an abundant resource there. Coal does not burn cleanly. One of the most toxic byproducts is mercury.

This is only partially true. Nuclear energy is what powers much of Europe (since it seems en vogue to throw out 'Europe' as the standardbearer with whom we're supposed to be keeping pace), but environmentalists have resisted allowing its use in the United States.

Nuclear power is not new technology, not by a longshot. It is true that Europe uses more nuclear plants then we do. But, there are valid concerns regarding disposal of radioactive waste. Moreover, they are very expensive to build and maintain.

It's not new, but it is an alternative that is non-polluting and once the plants are in place, efficient and less suseptible to price fluctuations than what is happening to us now.

If super-clean and green Norway can use nuclear with a clean conscience, I think surely the US could as well.

How do you want to pay for building nuclear plants? They would have to be funded by tax dollars.

I'd be fine with that if they are then going to provide public power as a not-for-profit venture.

It might work. I'd like to federalize the oil industry.