My heart will always belong to Germany. Emphasis mine.


In other news:
McCain holds an event in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, and 900 of the 1600 seats in the auditorium remain empty.
What if McCain held a town hall and nobody came? - The Jed Report

__________________
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

This is definitely not McCain's week.

That's putting it mildly.

__________________
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Well, did Mr. O even look around while in Germany to notice the United States has had troops there for the last 63 years, and that that is the reason he could go there and make his speech? Did he even bother to visit our troops in Germany?

Do we really care how many people Mr. O brought in in Germany. They're not Americans and are not voting in November. You know, Hitler drew huge crowds too in Germany. Funny, too, how the Germans couldn't understand what Mr. O was saying when he said they were needed in Afganistan (silence) but could understand other points he made.

I still don't trust him.......

Everybody knows there are troops in Germany. We are there with their permission. We are not there to make it safe for Obama or any other American. You can travel all over Germany without guards or soldiers.

As far as our relations with other countries go, there is a great deal to repair. Yes, it does matter that the citizens of another country would be so welcoming. It gives me hope.

You don't trust him because there's been a huge campaign to make you feel that way.

Wow, so you think you now know why we who dislike Mr. O feel that way!

I felt this way about him four years ago when I heard him speak at the Democratic convention. I told my DH "There is something about this man I don't like. The way he just comes out of nowhere and people just are like in a daze when he spoke. Watch - in four years, he'll be running for president." And I was right. So, no, you're wrong about why I feel about him the way I do. This was WAY before this 'huge campaign' you speak of.

You know? I'm probably as liberal as they come. And Barack touts a lot of the things that I am for. I would really, really, really, like to like and trust him--but I just can't. It's a gut instinict--not based on any hard "evidence" or "proof"--simply that I don't like him or his wife for that matter. I hope and pray that I'm proved wrong should Barack win the election in November.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Thank you! That's what I was trying to say in my last post -- when I heard him four years ago speak at the Democratic Convention -- it was my 'gut instinct'.

And trusting bushie boy was the right thing to do? LOL, not. He's f'd this country up like no other.

Seriously? You're comparing Obama to a man who murdered millions? THAT'S your comparison? How pathetic, to need to stoop so low. But I guess if that's all you got, then go for it.

That attitude is why we're so screwed right now. "We're Americans, we don't need anyone else." And so, no one else comes. And then folks complain about it.

would you like some cookies w/ that hateraid?

__________________
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

Hitler isn't the only person who ever drew a crowd. Ever see a turn out for the Pope? Kennedy?

I understood mom2twins point perfectly - that drawing a crowd because you have charisma is no guarantee of pure and noble motives. History has proved that. While I certainly don't think of BO as a Hitler-type, but like others here, I just don't trust him. There something terribly, terribly 'off' about him that I can't put my finger on.

People respond to him as though he is a rock star, not someone with the depth to rule the free world. He speaks in warm fuzzies, and I just don't think he's got what it takes to make the hard decisions.

I'm not saying Obama is like Hitler. You're reading what you want to read. I'm saying anyone can draw a big crowd. Having a big crowd doesn't mean you're the right person for the job. Heck, even Britney Spears draws big crowds!!

And I'll pass on those cookies unless you're going to share them with me with the hateraid since you dislike conservatives so much!

I think the beverage of choice these days seems to be koolaid, mom2. Large, large quantities of it being passed out 'round the world!

LOL!! You're right!! Wonder if they want cherry or grape?

I don't know! I have decided perhaps we can send him to Germany to be their leader since they all seem to like him so much.

How many of the 200,000 people can vote for him?

I agree, 100 percent

I'm not exactly sure when it was I first saw BO (such a fitting abbreviation for him), but I remember out of nowhere comes this young guy, and WOO WEE did the Hawaiian people "claim" him. I thought he must have been Hawaiian. NOPE....then you just keep hearing about him, and hearing about him, and DH and I said the same thing...... "he'll be running for President"

For me, I feel like he is the guy trying to earn the Varsity letter or something. It's more like he wants to be the President to fill some power trip or something. His wife......sorry, can't stand her. She reminds me of WAYYYYYYYYY too many spouses I've have to deal with......."look, my husband's the President of the United States....what does YOURS do?????"

The whole clan just doesn't sit right with me.

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

[quote=mom2twins2;3022199]
You know, Hitler drew huge crowds too in Germany. Funny, too, how the Germans couldn't understand what Mr. O was saying when he said they were needed in Afganistan (silence) but could understand other points he made.
QUOTE]
You do realize two rock and roll bands were out first to warm up the crowd...some of these people may have shown up for the free concert.
I thought it was funny that he said a few weeks ago how embarrassed he was for us Americans, not being able to speak another language when visiting Europe, and he gave his speech in English.

I guess when your own candidate doesn't inspire anyone (damn sure haven't seen any repubs being thrilled him and touting his wonderful plans and abilities) then you have to do whatever you can to try and bring down the one candidate who does. That's just human nature I guess. I think it's hilarious that there are no threads on here about how wonderful mcsame is. Stand up for your own man conservatives.

__________________
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

he is not my candidate (McCain) never said he was.
just mentioning my own observation

Sadly, it's not that simple.

I want to be inspired by B.O., as he is the current captain of "my team."

But I'm not. I find that the people who are most inspired by Obama can't even explain his vision, either. It's that rock star thing. He's more of a celebrity than a presidential candidate, and that disappoints me. If I wanted to be spoken to in such hyperbole (without substance), I'd read his book. But I want more than that - I want our country to be led out of our current mess by a true leader.

At this point, for me, it's choosing the "lesser of two evils," so to speak.

__________________
"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

[quote=jaded;3022183]
n other news:
McCain holds an event in Wilkes-Barre, Pennsylvania, and 900 of the 1600 seats in the auditorium remain empty.

BTW, my mom attended this, and it was packed. She showed up three hours early. Just goes to show that you cant believe everything you read.

McCain wouldn't have been my first pick, but I generally agree with his politics far more than I generally agree with B.O.'s. I appreciate his experience. I'd pick experience and depth over rock star qualities that inspire but go no deeper any day - especially if the one with the experience held views that were closer to mine.

McCain doesn't really inspire me, but that's okay. I can get inspired without a politician needing to rally me. I understand why B.O. draws the crowds - he is an effective speaker. But that's about where it ends with me. He's quite engaging and I'd love to love him... but I just can't and don't.

Funny how depending on which web sight you go to, you can get such a different report on things: "The Kirby Center holds about 1,800 people but a few hundred seats on the lower level are being used for a riser for television crews." From:
Timeline of the McCain visit to Wilkes-Barre <i><font color=#888888 ><font size=-2> Updated 2:40 p.m.</font></i></font> | News | thetimes-tribune.com - The Times-Tribune


Good thing I'm not basing my vote on how many people show up to see each candidate, huh???

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

NEITHER candidate inspires me! I'm extremely distressed that it appears my choices for President are going to be McCain or Obama.

Quite frankly McCain and Obama frighten me--for different reasons of course, but it's still a sense of fear.

And I really want to like Obama--I do.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I personally don't look at him as some rock star. I think a lot of people are excited about his campaign and his chance at being a president. I think after many years of fighting and misdeeds, people are looking forward to a something else. For me and a lot of people I know, McCain would be another Bush.

This is not about "drinking Koolaid". I think that talking point jab is silly. I don't agree with everything he says or does or even all of his ideas. Most of the Democrats I know are not followers. They disagree with each other all the time and do not fall in line. If anyone could be accused of "drinking koolaid" wouldn't it be followers of Bush, who for the first few years backed anything he did, right or wrong, no questions? And the ones that did question were called unAmerican and unPatriotic.

To answer your question about Obama's vision, I will just relay the main points for me:
First, he wants us out of Iraq. We should have never gone in and after billions of dollars, loss of lives, wounded soldiers both physically and mentally, it's time to start a plan to leave. The Iraqi government wants a timetable for withdrawal too. It's time to implement it.

Obama is also looking to reverse the politicization in the Department of Justice. There are too many dirty things that have ocurred for the past several years. Instances of voter caging, allegations of prosecutions based on political parties, hirings based on political affiliations and so on, scurrilous deeds under Gonzo, etc. The JD should be a seperate entity and if a wrong occured under their watch they should have investigated, regardless of political parties.

Obama also wants to restore fairness and implement tax cuts for working families, reform NCLB, fight for fair trade and amend NAFTA, plans for clean energy, have affordable health care for everyone, including those with preexisting conditions. He also wants to create a National Health Plan for those that wish to purchase private insurance, as well as offer affordable premiums and copay. This is really important to me since a major surgery has almost depleted our savings. The monthly dr. copays are becoming a burden and I am looking at some type of alternative to this cost.

I think the main thing I see for Obama is a willingness to work with a cabinet, as opposed to an us vs them mentality that I have seen displayed over the past few years. It's caused division that I don't know can be repaired, but I do see Obama as trying.

He has more ideas and plans on different issues, much more than I can mention here. I invite you to visit his website : Welcome to Obama for America . There is a drop down menu titled: Issues. Click it and you can read through all his ideas to decide for yourself. There is also a feature where you can input your zip code and find meetings to attend. There, they discuss the issues and you'll be able to interact and have your concerns and questions addressed. HTH.

__________________
@@@
l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

One very important issue..is that paying for his ideas is largely based on getting the troops out of Iraq.
But now he is talking about needing to send the troops to Afghanistan, dealing with Iran, etc. (moving them around is not "bringing the troops home" it is just getting them out of Iraq)

How is he going to PAY for everything..especially with the entitlement of Social Security and Medicare
kicking up everyday?

Correct, he thinks there needs to be more pressure and additional help in Afghanistan.
As I understand it, there are currently 158,000 troops deployed in Iraq. Obama's idea is to send two more combat brigades (7000 troops) to Afghanistan. I presume the rest would be sent home and/or be put on rotation.

Also, the money spent on the war is not just the amount spent on troop costs. We are also shelling out money for restructuring, rebuilding, paying insurgents etc. We need that money here and hopefully with the Iraqi government willing to talk about a timetable for us leaving, maybe they are ready to start shouldering the costs. We've done enough.

__________________
@@@
l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

I also don't think of Obama as a rock star. Neither my husband nor I find his speeches inspiring. I do think he's competent and quite smart. I see no arrogance in either himself nor his wife. The fact that he was raised by whites and exposed to other cultures is an asset. It's also why his attending a church for 20 years whose pastor sometimes said controversial things doesn't bother me in the least. I would expect him to explore being black in America. Hawaii isn't much like the mainland.

20 years is an awfully long time to 'explore'. If he can't form an opinion after 20 years, there's not a lot of hope for him.

How's he going to pay for everything that he proposes? It's called 'Taxing Us To Death!' He wants everyone in the United States to be on the same level, the more a person has, then they have to give it to those who don't want to work, the poor, the less fortunate, etc. I believe that's called socialism. I truly believe that he wants to turn this country into a socialist country. Distribute the weath I believe is what Carl Marx had in mind.

I think we've already become socialist in many ways. No insurance for your house in a natural disaster? The goverment will give you a trailer, money, etc. No money as a teen mother for medical and childcare? The government will handle it, even by setting up a nursery in your high school. No money as an adult mother for the children? The government offers welfare. Come to this country and get on social security without working? The government will pay you each month. Make irresponsible decisions on lifestyle, housing choices, vehicles, eating out etc and now your house payment goes up and you can't afford it? The government is working on that !

Each time I see the bailouts and handouts I think how the responsible people have truly lost in this country in recent years. Emphasis and respect for workers is nil and yet federal and state governments dream up ways to give more money away and pat themselves on the back.

dl

How is your president paying for it? OH. By borrowing from other countries! That's so much better than taxes. The U.S. government owes more than $8.5 TRILLION. Maybe the Bush conservatives don't yet realize that money does not grow on trees.


For the record, I don't agree w/ everything Obama says. I am appalled by his stance on gay marriage. More than appalled - totally pissed off. I'm REALLY not happy about his slow venturing towards the center. However, the only thing that could be worse than Bush is for McCain- to be elected.

__________________
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

I don't know the answer to this so it's not a rhetorical question. I really hope someone here does.

How much, in today's dollars, have past wars and conflicts cost the US? Did we borrow to make it through them? And if so, how long did it take us to catch up with the borrowing?

I realize that's surely impossible to truly calculate, since borrowing doesn't happen for one single line item within the government. But if there is an answer of some sort... I'd like to know it.

I'll bet if you did a google search entitled "cost of US wars in today's dollars" you would get dozens of responses.

Thanks. I did it.

Here's what I found regarding the Civil War (first result - haven't found info on other wars yet):

Could you post the site where you found that information. I've read that the Civil War cost $81 billion in 2007 dollars.

Sure - here 'tis!Measuring Worth - Relative Value of US Dollars