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Old 08-01-2008, 03:06 PM
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Obamas $1,000 Energy Tax Credit

And, he thinks he will fund this with "windfall profits" from the oil companies.....won't that eventually trickle down to even HIGHER prices, since they aren't just going to hand this money over willingly????


In Florida, Obama pitches $1,000 energy rebates | Newsweek Politics: Campaign 2008 | Newsweek.com
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Old 08-01-2008, 03:08 PM
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He's a socialist, through and through.
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Old 08-01-2008, 04:00 PM
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Originally Posted by allinaugust View Post
And, he thinks he will fund this with "windfall profits" from the oil companies.....won't that eventually trickle down to even HIGHER prices, since they aren't just going to hand this money over willingly????


In Florida, Obama pitches $1,000 energy rebates | Newsweek Politics: Campaign 2008 | Newsweek.com
You know such an interesting question.

At the risk of taking the thread in an unintended direction, do you not think that oil companies have a duty to support our country in a time of "war" or other national crises. They do, after all, get lots of benefits from the government in the form of tax breaks and special exploration funding, etc. I recognize, of course, that they have a duty to their shareholders but it just seems to me that they are somehow taking unfair advantage at this point in our history. In the "old" days there were many more smaller companies and competition was the name of the game. Now we have a few huge companies making record breaking profits with IMO no regard for the impact on our economy. "We" have very few or no options because we must buy the product.

For the record, I'm not necessarily in favor of his proposal -- it looks like just another "incentive" check like the one we received a few months ago which did little IMO to spur the economy.
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Old 08-01-2008, 04:35 PM
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It's socialism.

He's a socialist.
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Old 08-01-2008, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by wowitsdark View Post
It's socialism.

He's a socialist.
You're repeating yourself.
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:08 PM
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Say it with me now:

So-shul-ist.

Socialist.
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 08-01-2008, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ana21 View Post
You know such an interesting question.

At the risk of taking the thread in an unintended direction, do you not think that oil companies have a duty to support our country in a time of "war" or other national crises. They do, after all, get lots of benefits from the government in the form of tax breaks and special exploration funding, etc. I recognize, of course, that they have a duty to their shareholders but it just seems to me that they are somehow taking unfair advantage at this point in our history. In the "old" days there were many more smaller companies and competition was the name of the game. Now we have a few huge companies making record breaking profits with IMO no regard for the impact on our economy. "We" have very few or no options because we must buy the product.

For the record, I'm not necessarily in favor of his proposal -- it looks like just another "incentive" check like the one we received a few months ago which did little IMO to spur the economy.
I think I know what you are saying. There are laws in place that somewhat regulate the gas prices, and eventually supply and demand will keep things in check. I do believe the gas companies have a right to make a profit. Why isn't anyone (that I have heard recently anyway) complained about the profits that the food companies and grocery stores are making??? We can live a lot longer without gas than we can without food, kwim????
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by allinaugust View Post
I think I know what you are saying. There are laws in place that somewhat regulate the gas prices, and eventually supply and demand will keep things in check. I do believe the gas companies have a right to make a profit. Why isn't anyone (that I have heard recently anyway) complained about the profits that the food companies and grocery stores are making??? We can live a lot longer without gas than we can without food, kwim????

I was thinking more along the lines of gas companies providing a product that essentially runs our country, farmers need it to produce the food, truckers need it to transport the food, and most of us need it to get to the store to buy the food. Additionally I haven't heard that many grocery store chains are making huge profits but really can't say for sure. I'm in no way arguing that gas companies and their shareholders shouldn't make a profit but a record setting profit for such a necessity at this time in our country's history seems off to me. Maybe I'm poking at windmills but I truly believe our country is in awful financial shape and none of us (citizens, corporations and politicians) seem to want to consider what the consequences of our actions or inactions will be down the line.

I did hear of an airline CEO who cut his own salary by 50% the other day so maybe there is hope ...
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Old 08-01-2008, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by ana21 View Post
I was thinking more along the lines of gas companies providing a product that essentially runs our country, farmers need it to produce the food, truckers need it to transport the food, and most of us need it to get to the store to buy the food. Additionally I haven't heard that many grocery store chains are making huge profits but really can't say for sure. I'm in no way arguing that gas companies and their shareholders shouldn't make a profit but a record setting profit for such a necessity at this time in our country's history seems off to me. Maybe I'm poking at windmills but I truly believe our country is in awful financial shape and none of us (citizens, corporations and politicians) seem to want to consider what the consequences of our actions or inactions will be down the line.

I did hear of an airline CEO who cut his own salary by 50% the other day so maybe there is hope ...
I do understand what you are saying. I really think the only answer is to get off this dependence of oil. Not just the foreign stuff, MOST of it.
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Old 08-02-2008, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by allinaugust View Post
Why isn't anyone (that I have heard recently anyway) complained about the profits that the food companies and grocery stores are making???
I'm not sure about food companies, but the profit margins of grocery stores are reportedly in the 1 to 4 percent range and oil companies in the over 10 percent range. And what exactly have they done to deserve that increase to 10 percent? Have they improved gasoline recently? Not that I've heard. Have they improved the methods of transporting the crude and then gas? Not that I've heard. Have they built more refineries? Not that I've heard. Have they hired more people or created more jobs? Other than perhaps a few more accountants to keep track of all the money, not that I've heard.
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Old 08-02-2008, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by wildwood View Post
I'm not sure about food companies, but the profit margins of grocery stores are reportedly in the 1 to 4 percent range and oil companies in the over 10 percent range. And what exactly have they done to deserve that increase to 10 percent? Have they improved gasoline recently? Not that I've heard. Have they improved the methods of transporting the crude and then gas? Not that I've heard. Have they built more refineries? Not that I've heard. Have they hired more people or created more jobs? Other than perhaps a few more accountants to keep track of all the money, not that I've heard.

Actually, this past year it's been just under 8% profit, not over 10%. There were a number of years when oil was $30/barrel that they lost money, so in the grand scheme of things....
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Old 08-02-2008, 09:52 PM
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Originally Posted by wildwood View Post
I'm not sure about food companies, but the profit margins of grocery stores are reportedly in the 1 to 4 percent range and oil companies in the over 10 percent range. And what exactly have they done to deserve that increase to 10 percent? Have they improved gasoline recently? Not that I've heard. Have they improved the methods of transporting the crude and then gas? Not that I've heard. Have they built more refineries? Not that I've heard. Have they hired more people or created more jobs? Other than perhaps a few more accountants to keep track of all the money, not that I've heard.
I'm not sure if I am reading this correctly or not, but, this article states Kraft's pre-tax profit for 2007 was 10%, down from 11.7%, the 5th consecutive annual decline, meaning it has been above that for the past 5 years.


Kraft's 2007 pre-tax profit margin fell to 10.0% from 11.7% the previous year, the fifth consecutive annual decline.


Kraft Foods News | Chicago Business News, Analysis & Articles | Kraft, Sara Lee face rising beef and pork prices | Crain's

If I'm reading this wrong, someone please correct me.
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Old 08-02-2008, 09:59 PM
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I found this link for the 20 most profitable companies


20 most profitable companies | 1 | FORTUNE
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Old 08-04-2008, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by wowitsdark View Post
It's socialism.

He's a socialist.
"economic justice" = socialism
 

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