Ummmm...assuming someone race or heritage based on their name is wrong. Whether it is from a surname or a given name. I work in a state that has a high population of Native Americans (Indians). Some of them have names that are a good clue that they have some ties to Native American heritage--like "Ragged Robe" or "Two Guns". But, I never assume anything because I'm usually wrong.

I have a client who's last name is DeVera? What heritage/ethnicity do you think she is?

I'll tell you! She's Native American! Her husband is Native American as well.

You didn't answer my question:

I know a person named DeShea (first name)--what's her ethnicity? Where is she from? How old is she? Care to guess her religion, while you're stabbing in the dark?

I have a friend named Kathy--care to guess her ethnicity?

Unlike you, I don't anticipate any answers. But, I can say that I see a thousand differnt names daily--just their names, and until I get some sort of physical description or documentation I do not ever ASSume what their ethnicity is! I have O'Connells, Smiths, DeVeras, Twoteeths, Sotos--and with the exception of Twoteeth (who is a locally known name and family) I never assumed to guess about their ethnicity--NOR DO I CARE!?

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

And therein lies the difference between you and someone like KTH.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

Yep, I guess you're right. To me these people are "the right knee" or "left elbow" or "cut finger" (their work comp injury and/or body part). I even have a guy who is my "car vs. elk" claimant!

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Why does everyone assume there were no pictures in the newspaper? Or no pictures on the local news about the arrests. Or maybe the story was done by the local news about the influx of crime in their area.
Rather hard to provide the evidence that people are yelling for.

My local newspaper does not have everything online. But it does "print" pictures/names, etc in the newspaper for the drug crimes, etc. Usually includes race/sex etc.

KTB specifically claimed that you could identify the race of the criminal by their name.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

OH NO! She said she had statistics and back up what she said. I have yet to see the proof.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

What "kathytheshoppe" said
"WHen enough Tyrells and Tanisha's show up with their pics in the paper regularly getting arrested for this and that it doesn't take too much of a brain to figure out the rise in crime around here."

But, I will keep looking.

From Part I of this thread:

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

I HAVE POSTED THE STATISTICS FROM THE IOWA PUBLIC DEFENDERS WEBSITE ALREADY. JAIL POPULATION IS 36% AFRICAN AMERICAN AND THE POPULATION HERE IS AROUND 4% AFRICAN AMERICAN. If you don't see a problem then I can't help you.

It was a generalized statement referring to crime statistics here. Not every name written everywhere so you can stop all your snotty comments about telling you what race your friends are. THAT is nonsense. YOU are the people who read so many things into what I say.
Also there are pictures in the paper all the time which does give a CLUE to their race doesn't it? Also the descriptions of the arrest in the article or the description of the people they are looking for that are described as African American helps to identify them. But maybe it's just racist to ever describe if someone is black under any circumstances to you folks on here.
I especially enjoyed the spring bank robbery here and the picture in the paper. The young African American who was caught because he was wearing THREE pairs of baggy jeans and couldn't run fast enough!!!!!!

Thank you again. Yes, there have been many articles about the crime rate, the areas affected, the increase in gangs, etc... I also posted that the city council and the school district have been trying to figure out ways to solve the RACE problems here brought on by an inlfux of people. People would rather jump all over me and take one small piece of what I post and blow it out of proportion. Facts and statistics don't seem to matter if they support my statements or opinons.

Well I found an answer to shopper's question about Irish names. Her assumption is way wrong.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

I found this online:
"I live in Iowa City. On the South side, a nice modest home, quiet street. There are two black families across the street. They live right next door to each other. The nearly all-black area starts a couple blocks to the west, and also about six blocks to the east, where there are a few cheap apartment houses, and habitat for humanity houses. It's a weird area, because all the houses right near here are around $150's, but with big yards, while just down the main drag (Sycamore) there are several new developments with houses in the $200-250's.

There are many more black people moving in around the Pepperwood plaza/Broadway/Taylor drive area, and the one thing people keep saying is that they all act as though they had never seen white people before. Now there are a number of fights started in the schools, more than usual, and a run of burglaries, domestic violence, spouse abuse, and all the instances have been amongst blacks recently moved here. This is the simple unvarnished truth."


It is what it is. Either we are all racists here-the police, the neighborhoods, the city council, the schools, the papers, the courts, etc...-or there is a problem with a definite cause/pattern. And FYI, Pepperwood, Broadway, Taylor Dr. and Roberts Rd. are a few of the streets with the problem areas.

Then I guess I need to tell the O'Briens and the O'Malleys NOT to associate themselves with Irish ancestry. I'm sure some of them will be dissappointed. Maybe they won't be able to walk in the St. Patricks Day parades anymore........

Seriously? You are an idiot! (yes, I just called you a name!) No one has said that O'Brien, O'Malley, Cruz or whatever CAN'T be of a specific ethnicity, but to assume they are just because of their name is profiling, and is wrong...and in some instances ILLEGAL.

You can't answer my question about "DeShea" because either way you'd look like the racist, bigoted fruitcake (yep 3 more names) that you are. So, I'll save you the trouble--She is a 23 y/o white girl, who just happens to be my niece.

As you have so succinctly put it "stats can be skewed". And you have picked out the stats that supports your opinion....

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

The statistics are from the IOWA PUBLIC DEFENDERS OFFICE. If you don't like those you know where you can put them. I have given tons of proof to back up my statements. None of them are good enough for any of you so I won't waste my time anymore.
I DID NOT EVER STATE that you can always tell someones race by their name. Just another stupid ass twisting of my intent. By the way, my son is dating a nice young lady named Shea and she is white. Did you bother to look at the African American baby name website? I DOUBT IT. Compare it to the Causacian one and dare to tell me there's no big difference between them.
I have no more time to waste on close minded nasty people.

The flaw in your racial profiling by name assumption is that there are a number of quite famous and even more not so famous people of AA heritage with Irish surnames: Donovan McNabb, Ronald McNair, Jeff McInnis, Eddie Murphy, Soledad O'Brien to name just a few of the famous.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

As always you missed the whole point of my original post. But that's not unusual at all with you and the "gang" Did you check out the baby name list? Doubt it......
Nice to see little old me warrants two whole threads to bash me!!!! And yes, it's all about twisting my words and bashing since I have explained, quoted stats, quoted a resident here, blah, blah, blah. You all just keep proving yourselves over and over....keep it up!!

Aw shucks shopper -- we're bored and you're fun. Besides as I said a few threads back, if you're on MC you're not picketing a women's clinic. Quote us some more stats.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

I really feel sorry for you. You inspire nothing but pity. You are so full of yourself that you don't even realize that you are the one raging and showing her true colors--so to speak. You continue to do it, over and over again.

May you find some peace and serenity. With that said, I'm outtie. I have things to do, people to see, and places to go...

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I only pray at the clinic on Fridays so you didn't stop anything!!!
I won't bother looking anything up for any of you anymore because they mean nothing to you. You could care less if my stats are true or not.
DID ANYONE BOTHER TO LOOK UP MY CHALLENGE??? Of course not. Now you are all just going to be too busy to do anything that might back up my statements. Such are your ways though.....
Tah Tah

LOL!

Personally, I'm hoping for some more "tests."

I am sure there will be more tests....she won't be able to leave this alone. She knows that she got caught and got caught good hence the irate irrational posts from her where she yells at us that she has proven her stats and has proved her statements somewhere.

The proof that I got is that she is a racist who is also so arrogant that she can't see that she is the reason for what she calls the mob mentality. She can't see that her postings are causing people to ask her the hard questions and because she won't answer them, they keep asking her. She goes around the question over and over hoping that if she yells loud enough and acts like a victim enough someone will be tired and let her slip away back under her rock until the next time. Someone said she was an unhappy person and I agree that it certainly looks that way. All the LOL in the world after her posts cannot change what is unsaid in her posts. I feel sorry for her. So narrow in her thinking.

You know, trolls post things to get things started......maybe she is like a troll.....posting things that are outrageous to get a rise out of people.

Interesting, Kathy, that if what you posted was so crystal clear, then why didn't more people "get" what you were saying. Not everyone at MC is one of the "mob" ......the MCMob.....I like that, but I digress....where are the other people who read your "stats" and followed your argument to its illogical conclusion and also wanted to protect you from the mob mentality you are so sure exists? They might have been able to reach those of us still asking for clarification and real statistics that don't change with each post you post.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

I actually have to disagree with this statement.

When I pity people, I do not spend hours and hours sitting around watching for them to mess up yet again so I can point out their flaws.

That's not how true 'pity' looks.

From dictionary.com:


pit·y Audio Help /ˈpɪti/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[pit-ee] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, plural pit·ies, verb, pit·ied, pit·y·ing.
–noun 1. sympathetic or kindly sorrow evoked by the suffering, distress, or misfortune of another, often leading one to give relief or aid or to show mercy: to feel pity for astarving child.

2. a cause or reason for pity, sorrow, or regret: What a pity you could not go!
–verb (used with object)

3. to feel pity or compassion for; be sorry for; commiserate with.
–verb (used without object)

4. to have compassion; feel pity.
—Idiom

5. have or take pity. to show mercy or compassion.

Bottom line? We don't live in her town. I suspect that what she says about her town is true. I can also tell you a lot of truths about my town. If a sign is missing, a white popular high school kid probably stole it. If a child was enrolled in school for less than one quarter and then suddenly quit showing up without contacting the school, that child was probably hispanic. If they were busted for posession of meth with intent to distribute, they were probably white. Pedophilia or sexual assult of a child? White. Stopped on an interstate ramp, sniffed by drug dogs, and driving a pimped ride with California plates? Black.

There are crimes committed by all races, and some seem to be more likely to be committed by a specific demographic of people. If you google articles about the Cosby comments, you'll find several transcripts of people from various talk shows discussing his statements, and the take I saw in each one was that they believed he was equating the names with the race of the kids, not equating the names with the power behind them. He was both praised and kicked for the things he said, but it was pretty unanimous that that's what they believed he was saying.

I don't live remotely near Chicago, nor Iowa City, so I really can't comment personally on whether her observations are true. I just know that it is entirely within the realm of possibility that she *is* observing what she says she sees. It's true that in our school district - which has had the highest influx of hispanic students in the state in the past 12 months - there is a direct correlation between the hispanic numbers rising and the standardized test scores going down. Those kids are adorably cute and extremely polite, but unfortunately haven't had much in the way of schooling and can't speak the language, and it's caused us to have to cut some things to hire more ESL teachers. That's hurt the educational experience for those whose families have been paying property taxes to fund the schools for years and years. Unfortunately, those students only tend to remain in the district for an average of 11 months and leave before those extra teachers that were brought in can have a lot of impact... but what do you do?

Is it racist for a teacher to see a new-to-town Hispanic child walk into her classroom, unable to speak the language, and have her heart sink a little because she can guess the most likely outcome for that student in her classroom? Or is it simply a reaction based on experience? Nobody BLAMES the kids, but that doesn't mean the situation hasn't created a frustrating reality for those trying to build consistency and a high bar in the educational experience the system can provide.

Does it make *me* racist for being aware of this?

Those stats are THREE YEARS OLD---and you are talking about arrests within the last month. They are NOT relevant to each other---you are comparing apples to oranges....

But, because you cannot find more current stats to support your racist posts, you are ignoring the fact that the stats are not relevant to the crimes you are pointing to today. Plain and Simple. Even YOU should be able to understand the difference.....well, maybe not....

__________________
"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

Who is this attributed to? Who wrote it? For all we know YOU put it online. And, for the record, none of us here said you were the ONLY racist around, just that you ARE definitely a racist.

__________________
"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

I just wonder why anybody bothers commenting on shoppers posts. Don't you think she posts these crazy ideas just to stir up controversy? If we all ignore her maybe she will go away.

Speaking for myself, if KTS had written such a post the response would have been significantly different and possibly would have led to a discussion where we all learned something.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

Sorry, I don't live in Iowa City but in a neighboring, connected city. It was someone with the moniker Theongolis or something similar. He/she has commented many times on the PC website also. It is not me.
The jail stats were for AUGUST 1, 2008.
jeanie-for the fiftymillionith time-JAIL STATS not arrest records.
Most of us on here know who is going to pounce on people. It's always the same people. All you have to do is scroll through this thread and the previous one to get the names.
Two threads to jump all over me! I really must be important to all of you!!!
Thank you wowitsdark-let's see if they jump on you! If they are really not trolling me then they will be all over you too!!! But I bet they don't!!!

[quote=wowitsdark;3031043]I actually have to disagree with this statement.


Bottom line? We don't live in her town. I suspect that what she says about her town is true. I can also tell you a lot of truths about my town. If a sign is missing, a white popular high school kid probably stole it. If a child was enrolled in school for less than one quarter and then suddenly quit showing up without contacting the school, that child was probably hispanic. If they were busted for posession of meth with intent to distribute, they were probably white. Pedophilia or sexual assult of a child? White. Stopped on an interstate ramp, sniffed by drug dogs, and driving a pimped ride with California plates? Black.

There are crimes committed by all races, and some seem to be more likely to be committed by a specific demographic of people. If you google articles about the Cosby comments, you'll find several transcripts of people from various talk shows discussing his statements, and the take I saw in each one was that they believed he was equating the names with the race of the kids, not equating the names with the power behind them. He was both praised and kicked for the things he said, but it was pretty unanimous that that's what they believed he was saying.

END QUOTE
What if I had written "People getting stopped on are interstate ramp, sniffed by drug dogs and driving a pimped ride are probably black people from California". What an uproar!!! Oh my gosh!! The racism in that statement!!!!
Thank you for clarifying the Cosby statement too. You are right on the mark with what you said!

But the Iowa Stat you posted were for POPULATION stat which you used to show how few AA were living there to "support" your claim about how AA were overrepresented the most CURRENT stats of crime you were talking about. You are the one linking those 2005 population stats to 2008 crimes. I will cut and paste your own post to prove you were doing so:

Be careful about the racist word. In our town the crime rate has soared which matches the influx of "south side Chicgoans" moving here. The town has a 4% African American population (quickly rising) but fill 36% of the jail space. And no, it's not racial profiling. About everyday there's an arrest of a Latrel or Kanesha for some crime-robbery, mugging, etc... There's a "ghetto" area developing in a certain part of town...Now would you call me a racist? It must sound like I am but the facts tell the truth here.

IF you can't deal with your own posts, that is a sad commentary on you! We are jumping threads because you are wringing your hands and saying poor little martyr me I can't imagine why all the mob people say these things. My posts are not mean or racist and if you think that they are it is because I was only joking and all those nasty things I have said are only a joke and a test. You just want to set the wick on the bomb and then walk away without taking any resposibility for YOUR OWN WORDS. And, guess what, YOU are pouced on because of your posts. Does anyone else here claim that I have ever jumped on them? Mobbed them? Take responsibility for your own words and
actions....or they mean nothing.

Oh, and how convenient that you cannot cite the author of the article, can only say it is NOT you and the name might be...... Yes, that is definitely what I would call a reliable source (but only in your book of course.)

__________________
"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

It appears that Iowa has such a major problem that the Governor signs this into law.


State Public Defender Website - Iowa Governor Signs Nation's First Racial Impact Sentencing Bill

Noone else claims to be jumped on here because we just stay out of it. We don't have the nerve Kathy has.

Over and over I've read oneof kathy's posts and just followed it, whether I agreed or disagreed I've never seen her as racist. But you guys twist and twist and twist, then finally begin to believe your own twist and voila.....Kathy's a racist.

She's not, I see it clearly, I got her point, don't really care about teh stats, I knew what she was getting at and moved on.

And, guess what??? I don't have any black friends, acpuaintances, yes, but not friends. My friends are all white!! LOL What does that make me?? I'm sure you have it all figured out. I have a black neighbor, but she is an arrogant you know what, and I don't socialize with her at all. The rest of my neighbors are white. Am I racist yet?????
One time a black guy asked me out and I said no. I was 13 but that must make me racist, right???

Why don't you guys take a break, for such intelligent women, I would think you would have better things to do. Maybe not.

Melissa

Thank you so much!!!!! I love you!!!!! You understand all of it why don't they???lol (Because they don't want to!!) If you are also a racist I am proud to be in your company!!! lol

And I DO have black friends and also dated a black man for three years!!! lol

Well, after 2.5 hours of PeeWee Football practice (my oldest DS) I can honestly say someone should pity those 10, 11 and 12 y/o boys (and one girl). Man that coach is tough....

All that aside---whether you believe that I pity Kathy or not is your perogative. I don't sit for "hours" waiting for her to do anything. And on more than one ocassion I(and other posters) have offered Kathy the advice that if she would present her argument/opinion in a less offensive manner, she might be able to really and truly discuss these important matters. Kathy has repeatedly shown complete and utter disregard for the fact that her posts come across as abrasive, offensive, hateful and mean-spirited. What her rationale is, I do not know. I do pity her and feel sorry for her in that she's (apparently) so close-minded and set in her ways that she can't see that you get more flies with honey than vinegar.

I "get" what Kathy was trying to convey. I'm a little smarter than your average bear!

And unfortunately, no matter how polite or nice you are to kathy, she responds w/ venom, and blames any misunderstanding on others "twisting" her words, or misunderstanding her "sarcastic" style of posting. I do pity her. I do wish her the best that life has to offer. I'm not asking her to change her opinion, just learn how to express her opinion more effectively so as to not come across as a hateful woman

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

If you got what I was trying to say then leave it at that. You are not in charge of trying to change peoples writing skills or the way they present themselves. Other people follow my posts just fine and don't have such a big ego that they feel they must constantly correct things. Nor do they freak out and assume the worse about someone and start with the name calling. . The prior poster explained it just fine. Maybe you can learn from her post and wowitsdarks posts.

Marilyn, I've been contemplating communication the last few days after seeing a woman on tv who was VERY liberal, and she reminded me of how some on here communicate. I found her abrasive, offensive, hateful, and meant spirited, not to mention arrogant. I find some posters here the same way.

I don't remember seeing Kathy's posts and thinking any of those things.

Do you think it depends what "side of the fence" you are on? Just wondering. Sincerely wondering.

Melissa

I think being on opposite sides of the "fence" could play a part in it; but, I find some of the "liberals" (if I HAVE to be classified, it would probably be liberal) on here very off putting in their postings. Conversely, I have had very "nice" exchanges w/ some of the conservatives--I believe you and I have even agreed on a couple of occasions!!

In response to Kathy--I don't have the ego you seem to be giving me. What I do have is the experience of having been "that" person who was rude, abrasive and mean spirited. It's taken me a lot of time to come to that self-realization, and I still have moments when I revert to that person when I'm really upset, or passionate about a topic. I do apologize to you kathy. I was trying to provide you w/ constructive criticism when you either didn't need it or didn't want it. I do wish you (kathy) would consider paying attention to the tone of your post, but, if you do not feel the need or desire to do so--I will just have to ignore it, and focus on the actual "meat" of your posts.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

[quote=kathytheshopper;3031114]I assume you would have.

For the record, that occurs several times a year, but it hasn't caused the same level of devastation locally that the sign stealing has. I won't go into details to protect my location, but we've had pretty bad news that was related to that particular crime. Same with the meth dealers and users - lots of preventable messes, sometimes deaths, a couple of dismemberments... and really we don't have a high crime rate, but the major things that have happened have usually involved whites and meth and/or sexual assult of a child.

We live along a heavily-trafficed (sp?) interestate that is frequently used by drug dealers traveling from California to the east coast. The police set up fake checkpoint signs alerting drivers to upcoming drug dogs. The signs are positioned right before an exit that leads to a very small nowhere town. Vehicles worried about the drug dogs tend to take the 'exit to nowhere' and speed when they do so. Highway patrolmen are waiting behind trees down by the stopsign and nab them for speeding. Oh - and THEY have the drug dogs!

Seems like entrapment to me almost, but apparently it's legal because they've been doing it for years. The people who typically get busted for transporting large amounts of drugs fit the description I gave.

That description doesn't at all fit any local African-Americans that I'm aware of. I can only think of two crimes in our area that were committed by local African-Americans that I was aware of.

Interestingly, this is the "rest of the story of her quote -

"...but you have to realize, at the same time, I am talking in dozens, and possibly hundreds, of people, moving in, and of crimes, a half dozen or a dozen or so more than usual. And the usual is a burglary or a beating or disturbance, one at a time. Usually students, sometimes white. (Junkies, we have a few.) I have a degree in crim and sociology, so it's funny to be talking so vaguely. BUt I hadn't been aware the projects were closing down, and I can't imagine what they expect people to do. Around here, people are nice, accessible, reasonable. Many of the black youths I see cluster in groups, and give very hostile looks at passersby, who are, I suppose, gawking. My parents came from the south, and we went back off and on thru my childhood, and I just don't react strangely to black people, I just had a nice conversation with a woman in K-Mart (who was black). And I am friendly, and act as if I expected them to be friendly too. But many of these "yankees" go all cow-eyed when they see a black person, or act as if some little Mexican man was going to knife them when he's all wore out, downtown trying to buy groceries or clothes for his kids. We'll get by. It's just a small, real white town. Is Iowa still promoting the State to Minorities? (crime, college) - Iowa (IA) - Page 12 - City-Data Forum

I find it interesting that the poster choose to place a period at the end of the quote, instead of the comma. Another "test' perhaps.


I love the cow-eyed Yankee reference.

We have agreed on occasion Marilyn. And it's not like I don't agree with some of the hard core liberals on some issues, I just hate the way they communicate, just like some don't like how Kathy communicates. I get that she doesn't communicate well sometimes, but I look past the way something is said sometimes to get to the real message.

I do think that Kathy has been backed into a place that is very difficult, she's had to defend herself, when it's made impossible to do so. She can't win. I know she's not a racist and so do most other's that have read this, I"m sure. But, it doesn't matter. From now on the fact that some think she is will color all their reading of anything she writes. It'll will be brought up over and over.........just like it's a fact. And it's not.

Melissa

Thanks again momrajum.

Speaking again for myself, I think you're wrong. You put your remark in the context of all racial groups. You didn't single out a particular race as KTS did. When challenged with a link to her local newspaper showing arrests and a particular absense of what KTS asserted were racially identifiable names she reacted by saying the paper wasn't trustworthy. Conversely we were to trust her quoting statistics with no citations because she said so!

I'm quite willing to accept someone's perceptions of a situation but when one refers to a story and leaves out an important part as apparently she did and was caught doing just within the last few posts, I don't trust anything they say.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

My gosh, I go away for a while and all h*ll breaks loose! What in the heck is going on? I have spent some time on here today off and on reading all these posts and continuances of posts, and I have to say 'don't you people have anything better to do?' All most of you are doing is getting glee out of running Kathy down for stating facts that are relevant to her state (or neighborhood). Reading all of your responses actually made me laugh because they're so juvenile and petty!!! You're like sharks feeding off each other.

I honestly think you're saying this stuff just to get a rise out of Kathy and you know she's passionate about what she's saying and will respond (just like in middle school).

When you speak of race problems, Truble, you can't tell me that you don't have a high crime ratio in Richmond. I know better. I have friends who live there and my son is in law enforcement nearby. The arrests he tells me about and the things he comes upon would make you not want to leave your house. A lot are gang-related. When he was in the academy, they had one week devoted to just gang-related crimes. He gave us a DVD of it. It's prevalant in northern Virginia and slowly working its way up towards us. And it's very prevalant in other cities across the US. That's only one part of it.

I have talked on here before about crime in our area malls and one local Wal-Mart and was deemed a 'racist' by a select few also. But facts are facts and when you see it for yourself and see it on your own TV at home of what's happening in your local malls, you can't say it's not happening. To say it's not happening -- well, you're just fooling yourself.

So how about doing a little settling down and look back at what you're posting and remember we're grown-ups here?

Hope everybody is having a good week.

I don't know if it's the same everywhere, but our jail takes in inmates from neighboring counties. The African American population in my town is 2.9%. We get inmates from St. Louis where the African American population is 52.2%. Jail stats would be a misrepresentation of who is actually committing crimes within our town.

And I'm curious how do you know it's not racial profiling?



Kathy,
I don't know if you post the way you do to intentionally incite controversy or if you're just socially retarded. If it's the latter I'm sorry, but if not I hope you're enjoying yourself.

__________________
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

But ya know... there are things that happen in my town that I couldn't give you a source for. That wouldn't make it untrue. I could give you personal accounts of things or tell you what my friends told me or tell you what really happened that didnt' make the paper.... and there are absolutely no sources for those things.

I went back and looked at how this all began. Truble posted a quote by Toby Keith. To me what he said made perfect sense, actually - that there are probably some African-Americans who feel so disenfranchised that even if a man of color *does* win the election that in *this* case - if it's Barak Obama - that they won't be able to accept it at face value and will suspect deep down that it's only because he's half white and lives a lifestyle more commonly associated with white Americans.

At least that's what I took him to be saying. I thought it was actually bemoaning the fact that for some African-Americans things have been so bad for so long that even when things are good they're not in a position to feel good and let go of the cynicism.

Others don't seem to have interpreted what he said that way, so maybe I'm missing something. He was quickly called a racist and/or demeaned by posters I would've believed would agree with his sentiment. That surprised me, given that I thought he was expressing sadness that things were that bad, racially, for some African Americans for them to feel so 'outside' the process.

Kathy's first comment was essentially a wish that people would put the brakes on declaring him a racist without knowing everything and just having that one quote in front of them. Then she went on to say (paraphrasing, of course), "I could throw out a set of facts that would even make ME sound racist if you took just those facts, but I'm not. If I was, I wouldn't have the people in my life that I do. But if you overheard me talking about the frustrations we're having in my neck of the woods, which happen to involve a demographic that is mostly defined by their race, you might *think* I was a racist. Just like you're thinking about Toby Keith right now, and you may be way off base."

That's what my *understanding* of her statement was. And suddenly it all degenerated into people wanting her to cite her sources for the percentages she gave when in reality, the concept she was trying to 'put out there' was that one statement, taken out of the context of the way a person *lives*, shouldn't be enough to slap a label as big as "RACIST" on someone.

And things went south from there. She was trying to find things to back up a point that was never really the point - I assume it was just incidental information she thought she was presenting - and everyone suddenly wanted proof and her firstborn on a skewer.

It'd be interesting to show the three Toby Keith threads to a bunch of people who never even read the internet and find out who they find sympathetic, who they find to be the aggressors, who they find to be right and who to be wrong.

Actually are jails are overcrowded and we have to house inmates in other counties which is costing a fortune. So the statistics could even be HIGHER then what I quoted. Definitely not lower.
Oh, now I'm socially retarded, huh??!!That is hilarious-thanks for the chuckle. So much for maturity on your part!

Another awesome post!! YOu understand it perfectly!!

So - finding a quote online and changing punctuation and removing a critical clause is just another way for her to make a point?

KTS's version "... This is the simple unvarnished truth."

The REAL quote " ... This is the simple unvarnished truth, but you have to realize, at the same time, I am talking in dozens, and possibly hundreds, of people, moving in, and of crimes, a half dozen or a dozen or so more than usual..."

I'm going to bed. This has given me a headache.

Goodnight all!

This is what she wrote:

I agree with her first sentence. The second sentence may or may not be true, but it is her perception so IMO valid.

The third sentence is where she starts getting into trouble by quoting statistics with no citation or even the proviso that "I heard" .... She only digs deeper when she mentions Latrel or Kanesha and their "crimes". Combine that with the word "ghetto" and IMO, we moved past what I would like to see in a civilized discussion of race relations into what borders on, again IMO, intolerance to put it politely. Especially when she says what she has stated are the facts.

When offered legitimate links contradicting a few of her facts she disputes them but offers none in return to support her stand.

Again, she is more then welcome to her opinion but IMO she should have the grace to at least consider that her "facts" are open to discussion.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

Facts are facts. As pointed out by another person the streets that are turning "ghetto" are identifiable and there has been a gang unit in the police department watching that area (broadway, pepperwood and Taylor dr.) as well as increased patrols. THose are facts and don't need to be disputed. or proved. You can all dispute WHY (poverty, etc...) but it IS happening. ONce again did you look at the African American baby name website??????? Before you go condemning me maybe you should research that.

Why don't you address nightowlrn's question about your creative editing?

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

go to babynamesworld.com
There is a whole section dedicated to African American names and son of a gun but good old LaTrell is on there!!!! I guess you folks are the RACISTS for jumping to conclusions. Oh wait, that's probably not a reputable source. lol I DARE you trolls to check it out. You can then jump all over that website and declare RACISM!!!! lol ie a name is associated with race!! How dare they!!!! lol

But see.... the facts - or even fictions - weren't the point.

What I believe she was trying to convey was that Toby Keith stated something he believed to be an accurate and realistic issue, but because it was a statement that associated something *negative* with a *race* that it didn't necessarily mean that he was racist. Sometimes there *are* true statements, unfortunately, that can be made regarding a racial demographic - for all races!

She then threw out some statements that described what is happening in her town regarding demographic changes and crime rates.... but asserted (paraphrasing) that *knowing* them and *stating* them didn't make her *racist*.

And then it all became about her incidental factoids, which may or may not have been exactly accurate.

Personally, I think she just threw them out there without really knowing the exact numbers. I think she's read the stats before and that the general gist of them stuck with her, made sense in the context of what she seems to observe, and she recited them from memory. I don't know that her memory was completely accurate such that it could be carried out ten percentage points, but I get the gist of what she was trying to get across - that just stating the fact that there is a correlation between the influx of former residents of Chicago's south side, a poorer, higher-crime area, and rising crime in her location doesn't mean that she holds racist feelings herself. Therefore, Toby Keith, absent any other evidence, should not be branded a racist.

She is scrutinized more than any other poster I see here. Other people state things all the time without foes yelling, "SOURCE! SOURCE! WE MUST HAVE A SOURCE!"

Exactly!!! I should be able to give my opinions on here without the verbal bashings. Thank you also for pointing out how much I am "scrutinized" on here. Thank you for calling them out!!!!

Okay, I'll give her the benefit of the doubt and agree that she just threw some stats out there in her initial post but why, when she was given every opportunity to link to a credible source or defend in any way the stats she used or the published reports she referenced she refused both to get her own source or acknowledge that there might be sources which disproved what she posted.

Not only that but she has apparently done some creative editing on a post she quoted from that appears to be from a newspaper blog.

Again, I don't care if someone states a personal opinion but if a poster starts quoting stats or saying something specific as she did with the AA names and arrest records then the poster should be prepared to back it up.

I disagree btw with your first sentence. The facts or fictions became the point when opinion/perception became stats and news articles and proveable falsehoods.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

Well there just may have to be a 4th? thread on the same subject if this one gets locked before your question is answered.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

I am done with you. NOTHING I say, quote, reference, etc.. will EVER be good enough for you. Did you check out the names website???? I think I've asked this about FIVE times but none of you will check it out becaue obviously it backs up what I say! And if you can't think of anything more to criticize me about you pick on my punctuation, etc... I'm posting on here, not writing a term paper. Get over it. Do your own research if this topic means that much to you.

If you start a 4th thread on this you have some serious issues.........

I don't want to take away from the pleasure you so clearly get from jumping on my back every chance you get, but where did I claim there wasn't a high crime problem in Richmond? This is another straw man argument.

Kathy, why do you want people to check out a baby name book? What will that prove? The AA people name their kids Latrell and Kenesha? That only proves what we were saying all along....you are equating those names with the crimes commited in your area.

Face it. The comment was not a nice one. If you don't want to run with the big dogs, sit on the porch and don't participate.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

This is a good summation. Watch out you said they are sharks feeding off of each other which could be equated to my stating it was mob action. The sharks have tried to turn that against her and keep calling it mob mentality. Mentality is severely lacking from many of these posters, and yet they continue to call her names and put her down. This is rehashed and rehashed and rehased by posters being vile and ignorant in their own right.

I don't know kathytheshopper, nor do I agree with some of her posts, and I do find her writing style hard to follow at times, but she HAS been attacked. There are a couple of posters that you pretty much just know will be scathing , rude and know it all in what they say. I don't keep track of posters, but some continue to play the same game over and and over. And mc has allowed her to be attacked without banning those who did it ( per the rop). But that's ok, typing and posting stickies for rop of play obviously is an exercise only for mc, not something they enforce.

dl