Do you think her speech at the DNC last night (8/26) "hit the mark"?

Personally, I think Michelle Obama looked pissed that HRC was getting so much applause when she first came out.

I don't think HRC's speech did much to support Obama. I feel like it was very forced and obligatory.

JMO, of course.

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I think she done a good job on trying to bring out the fact no matter what the Democrats need to pull together and get behind Obama. She is of the thinking - that any Dem. is better than a Rep.

She did not talk about Obama's experience or lack of it. Which is something that the Republicans are coming out talking about. It is a subject that both Hillary and Biden used against Obama. I am sure that is going to keep being a big part of the election.

There is just something about Michelle...for all her education and abilities... that just strikes me as mean. I thought she had an odd look on her face regarding Hillary...actually odd doesn't describe it well....I would term it angry

I would bet that she was not a supporter of allowing both of the Clintons air time. Sweep them to the back and give my hubby his stage.

To me, the Obama camp has groomed her over the last year to try to appeal more to the mainstream America...but the real Michelle does pop out when the veneer is thin...like last night

__________________
Nobody can make you feel inferior without your consent.

E. Roosevelt

Yes, that was how I felt as well.

I also am wondering if the Republicans will use the line from HRC "We Americans aren't big on quitting". I just see it in the near future.

I have more respect for HRC and appreciate her political career better now. I do think she left things open to run again in 4 or 8 years.

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

The speech was fantastic. I thought it was very supportive of Obama.
Michelle neither looked mean, pissed or looked like she was mad that Hillary was getting applause to me. I thought she looked thoughtful, serious and wanted to give Hillay her undivided attention. When I am concentrating on something, people say I look mean and ask if I am mad. Their assumption can't be farther from the truth.

I thought Hillary did a great job last night. She came off as genuine and sincere to me. And Bill looked so proud of her! He mouthed the words "I love you. I love you so much". Sweet.

__________________
@@@
l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

Wonderful oratory. She did a super job. I think she is probably the best female political speaker around and one of the top from both sexes.

And I agree about looking mean. When I'm paying close attention to something, I evidently from all accounts, look very mad also. I've had people come up to me at the grocery store and ask if there is anything wrong.lol.. I think I do that when I'm trying to block out the surrounding distractions and focus entirely on one thing.

I felt that Hilary was incredibly gracious, and totally stepped up to the plate. She left no doubt that she wants her supporters to back Obama. I don't think anyone could have done that more than she did with her pointed question (which I'm obviously only able to paraphrase): Ask yourselves whether you stood for what I stood for, or were you simply supporting just me? I thought she succeeded in walking the thin line of throwing sincere support Obama's way, while keeping her future options where they needed to be.

I can't yet wrap my support around Michelle O. She did look QUITE uncomfortable and tense (angry, even?) last night, and I thought she should have at least tried to muster up a warm, supportive expression as Hilary threw the accolades their way.

Unity works both ways.

__________________
"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

I think Senator Clinton did a great job and frankly I didn't think she would. I think she is sincerely concerned that 4 more years of Bush policies will change our country forever and will do what she can to see that it doesn't happen.

As for Mrs. Obama's facial expressions, add me to the sour faced group -- if I had a nickel for every time someone walked by me and told me to "smile" I'd be rich.

I'm not surprised that Michelle is being criticized. It seems all first ladies and potential first ladies have been for one reason or another; with the possible exception of Laura Bush who everyone seems to like (or maybe we just feel sorrry for her). Mrs. Reagan was too adoring and a spendthrift, Barbara Bush was a "b on wheels", Hillary Clinton didn't know her place, Teresa Heinz was a rich socialist, etc., etc.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

I guess I can agree with you as well, although, for now, I've decided to believe she was just concentrating. Someone should have been working with her on her facial expressions from the time the campaigning started. I suspect if they play back the speech with the shots of her, that she might think the same thing.

LOL! Same here!

Good points, I agree.

__________________
@@@
l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

I agree - tense best describes her look.

Call me jaded, but I wouldn't be surprised if Hillary walks into that ballot box come November and checks off "McCain". With the Clintons, I still feel it's 'all about them' and I think she'd find some satisfaction in being able to step up to the plate in four years and say, "I told you so last time - now let's try this again, shall we?" I have to think she knows that the pendulum quite often swings from party to party after eight years of one side in office and that if Obama is popular enough to win and become a two-termer, it could very well be 12 years before she'd have another opportunity again. By then she'd be older than McCain is now, wouldn't she?

[quote=

And I agree about looking mean. When I'm paying close attention to something, I evidently from all accounts, look very mad also. I've had people come up to me at the grocery store and ask if there is anything wrong.lol.. I think I do that when I'm trying to block out the surrounding distractions and focus entirely on one thing.[/QUOTE]

lol Like when I'm on a shopping mission and totally focused I'm in the "zone" with a very intense look. I find Michelle Obama rather frightening. IMHO she looks like she could have a temper-she gives me a controlled but "angry black woman" vibe. Don't bother bashing that remark, I got it from an African American friend of mine who explained "those women" to me.

I think you mean 8 years, not 12 -- and she'd still be younger than McCain at that point.

Michelle Obama needs a publicist and a personality coach. She seems very (in every instance that I have seen) aloof, stand-offish, and stuck-up. She certainly doesn't give off any warm and fuzzy vibes. As a politician's wife, she really needs understand that she is judged on outward appearances. I was too young to pay attention to Nancy Reagan, kind of like B. Bush, of course I loved Hillary, and the current First Lady is a class act all the way. And she has got to be as patient as a saint to deal w/ her husband!

I caught bits and pieces of Hill's speech. I don't know how convincing the overall speech was, but I wasn't convinced by what I heard.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Can't wait to hear what Biden will plagarize (sp?) in his speech tonite.

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

You seriously need to go to tact school. You just haven't paid attention here or read your post back to yourself once you finish with them. If I was ever called or thought to be racist, I would be so careful not to write anything that might even look like I was a racist (if I wasn't) but you seem to be impervious to what others here have said about you so you can cry when someone asks you to explain yourself and calls you like you have come across.

Good Lord, you continue to surprise me, Kathy. Do you not see how what you posted sounds? At least to me. It would be like using the N word and saying "Well, I heard another black person use it so it is okay to use."

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

You know that you're wasting your time and energy, right? I've tried, you've tried, just about everyone has tried to tactfully explain how she appears, and I honest to God believe she knows how it comes out and just doesn't give a flip! Call me the eternal optimist, but no one can be as stupid or as dense as to not understand what everyone has been trying to tell them.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Sorry - I did mean 12, but didn't explain well. If Obama wins and becomes a two-termer, if things followed the last few presidencies, it could well be 12 years before she has another shot.

There were three terms worth of Republicans in the WH with Reagan/Bush I. Because things seemed to be in good shape at the end of the Reagan era Bush seemed to be a positive continuation to the voters.

Then there were eight years worth of Clinton, a Democrat, and it was his VP who almost slid on in. It was awkward because Gore had to run on something of a fresh platform because he was trying to distance himself from the Clinton messes, despite the fact that the economic numbers were high and we had no clue that the terrorism that was brewing overseas was plotting to come our direction. Given how close the Bush/Gore election was, my gut tells me that but for the Clinton scandals Clinton's VP Gore probably could've easily made it into the WH.

If Obama is successful at wining the WH but doesn't have a good first term, he's still likely run as an incumbant and could lose to a Republican. Hillary wouldn't get a chance to run then and so it'd be 8 or 12 before that door opened back up.

If he's successful and does have a good first term and then wins a 2nd one, given that Biden has had presidential aspirations in the past, I would envision him running as the top Democratic contendor in 2016. That would mean Hillary wouldn't get much opportunity to hold the top slot on the Democratic ticket until 2020 at the earliest. And even then, if Biden is popular he'll get another chance, and if he's unpopular and doesn't run, chances are the country would be looking for a change and that would mean a Republican candiate stood a better chance. Probably.

I guess I have no clue how old HRC is right now. Is she in her early, mid, or late 50's?

Ah, I understand your point. I can see that. I think she just turned 60, didn't she? If so, that would make her in 2012 exactly McCain's age now.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

Marilyn,

You are right....I don't know what I am thinking. It just irks me that people can be so dense as well as racists....the two go hand in hand. And because I am biracial, I take real offense to the racist comments that she makes "innocently" and her wide eyed wonder at why it offends someone is just beyond me. I do not understand anyone who can call themselves a Christian and then just everything they do, everything they say, everything they write just goes in the opposite direction. KWIM? I will call her out on everything stupid that she says....I know that it won't change anything about her but I would hate for some naive young mother to come to MC and think that those of us who post here allow someone to think like she does.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

please (if you can) explain the difference between calling someone "angry back women" or a "wrinkly old white dude"

Certainly.... wrinkly white dude is what mr McCain is. He is old and he is wrinkly and he is a dude. To say that someone has "the angry black women vibe" is totally different. That doesn't describe anyone. It isn't descriptive, it is subjective.

If Michelle Barack is angry and she is black and she is a woman you can say she was an angry black woman. Not that she is giving off an "angry black woman vibe" There is a difference. And for KTS to know that it is a statement that will cause problems because she ends her post with "I got that from an AA friend of mine who says that." to paraphrase. It is the same thing as providing as proof you are not a racists or have a problem with other races because you have a black friend. Have you ever heard that statement?

do you see that? Tell me if you don't.....I can maybe be able to explain it again.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

I do not agree with it..but I do understand where you are coming from.

Ok..how about "angry white woman" .

I would not have used either of those terms. I would have said that Michelle Obama acts like she has a huge chip on her shoulder. Do you consider that "racist" sounding?

It's plagiarize. I so relate though -- is it the Keating 5 or the Keeting Five or??

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

Here I go off topic once again.. but didn't "dude" at one point in time, refer to cute young guys? "Like he's such a total dude." Or do I have that mixed up with something else?

I, personally, do not find the term "has a chip on her shoulder" racially offensive. In fact that's a pretty good assessment as to how Michelle Obama appears.

I just kept waiting for someone to call her "uppity"...

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Angry white woman depends on how it is used. If I, a black woman am talking to someone and I say "she has that angry white woman vibe to me" - that is a racist statement. It is stereotyping white women.

A chip on her shoulder does not describe her color in a derogative way in any way.

I am glad you wouldn't have used either of the terms. Common sense and tact dictates that one would not. KWIM?

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

Ob brother, get a life ladies-you know who you are......

Keating 5.

And it was Chelsea Clinton who he made the dreadfully ugly "joke" about when she was a child.

And his first wife -- the one disfigured by a car accident that he cheated on -- was Carol.

Vicki Iseman is the lobbyist he appears to have had a "special" relationship with.

894 out of 899 was his class rank at Annapolis.

South Carolina is the state where he favored the Confederate flag be flown (he was for it before he was against it).

Martin Luther King Day is the holiday he opposed (against it before he was for it this time.)

The Food Network is where Cindy McCain stole the recipes from that she posted as McCain family recipes.

Percocet and Vicodin were Cindy's drugs of choice during her druggie days.

American Voluntary Medical Team is the name of the charity from which she stole those drugs.

[quote=truble2301;3036736]... And it was Chelsea Clinton who he made the dreadfully ugly "joke" about when she was a child. .../QUOTE]

The telling of which spoke volumes about him as a father, husband, and public servant.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

Couple of things that I want to comment on:

What's that old adage about the last person in the graduating class is still a Doctor? I'm thinking that would also apply to attorneys as well. And would apply to anyone who graduated (completed to course work, passed the tests....)

Generally, prescription drug abuse is due to other circumstances (surgeries, chronic pain syndrome, chronic injuries) and a lot of that also rests on the physicians who either don't recognize or ignore the signs of narcotic addiction.
I have much more respect for a person who admits they had an addiction and works to conquer their demons.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Nice post! Good points!

The last sentence is way off. You imply that only young mothers come here - that are naive. Also, that when they do, they can't think for themselves.

No one can "allow" someone to think in any way, fashion or form. You can disagree, but you can't change her thinking, as I would think you would have realized by now. What awful statements in that last sentence.

dl

oh, don't get me wrong--I am not a McCain fan, and am not defending him. But, some of the things that his detractors seem to focus on, are NOT (IMHO) serious arguments against him.

Making cruel and hateful remarks about a young girl--who did not choose to be in the public eye, but was thrust there by her parents--is deplorable. And regardless of a person's reason, there is absolute no call to hurt a child. Of course, I do believe that Chelsea has gotten the best revenge. She is a beautiful, intelligent and well spoken young lady!

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I can't take it anymore. I have to say it. I hate you. I really, really do. You simply disgust me. I throw up a little in my mouth every time I see that you've posted.

__________________
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

WOWSER!!! Maybe it's time to put her on your ignore list. Don't give yourself a stroke over a virtual stranger on a chat board. Really.......

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Glad to be of help!

Oh, I feel much better now. Before, her ignorance amused me. It got old quickly though.

__________________
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

jaded,
I know we've butted heads--I sometimes wish we could see eye to eye on everything, but I'm afraid that's not going to happen! I think if we knew each other IRL, we could probably be friends....so, I'm saying this with all the love and concern I would for any friend:

Please don't let her get to you. Don't waste another ounce of energy hating her. She is truly not worth it. She a vampire and will suck the life blood out of you with her negativity and hatefulness! I finally came to that realization, and made the decision that she is of no more importance than a gnat.

Although I don't agree with all of your opinions. I do respect that they are yours, and hope that while we may not always agree we can conduct ourselves appropriately (and lord knows we can't behave any worse then kathy!)

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I love Bela Lugosi!! Thank you for putting me in such good company!

Does anyone know what HRC was talking about when she said a Marine could not get medical care??? Is this a well publicised incident she is talking about??? I found it rather disturbing.

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I don't know about that either. If it's true that's terrible. We need to take care of our brave men and women who serve our country.

Was it this?
quote: I will always remember the young man in a Marine Corps t-shirt who waited months for medical care and said to me: “Take care of my buddies; a lot of them are still over there….and then will you please help take care of me?”
I believe it was said yesterday.

Yes, that is it, and then later in her speech she just said "the Marine". I was a little confused.....was it a guy in a Marine T-shirt (like an Army T-shirt...showing support, etc) or an Active Duty Marine.

It seems she meant an active duty Marine. Why did he wait months for health care??? I don't get that.

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I don't know either. I could guess that maybe it took him months to get into the VA for care but that's just a guess. I think sometimes it takes awhile.

Thanks! I know. I know. I hate the ignore feature b/c when someone else quotes, you still see that person's post. But I do use it. I am just glad I'm not her. I'd be miserable hating myself, lol.


Alli, I think there have been several instances of vets not being able to get care, or receiving inadequate. I know she was talking about one particular marine, but sadly, it's not an uncommon occurrence under this administration. I can't see that changing under McCain.

Injured Troops Struggle to Get Health Care : NPR

Eric Haas: We Owe Our Veterans Health Care

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/22/us/22suicide.html

Lourdes (Alfie) Alvarado-Ramos: VA Cuts Would Force Veterans on Medicaid

McCain's Plan to Privatise Veterans' Health Care | CommonDreams.org

McCain defends VA health proposal (8/27/08) -- www.GovernmentExecutive.com

__________________
"Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God? " ~Epicurus

I listen to her last nite,but i will still not support OBama,she was the only one and last one i will listen to at the DNC.