I feel the need to comment on it and the thread was locked, but I agree with what she is trying to say. I think she needed to explain it more. For once I didn't understand the shock.

I have an autistic child and used to babysit a down's infant, so I understand what a parent goes thru and I can not imagine accepting the VP nomination at this time in her life. I'm a democrat, so her on the ticket is neither here nor there for me. I just think that this position requires her to choose between her potential job and her child. In an ideal world, she would not have to choose, but..... Having a special needs child can be an emotional roller coaster and the constant additional care and reassurance they need is tremendous. Yes, she may have a stay at home husband, BUT there are 4 kids. I barely made it through with my sanity and my husband was very hands on. Without knowing her personally, I think it is very selfish of her. Do you guys honestly think she can give her child and the job everything that both need?

And before I get flamed, I am very pro working outside the home and did it myself for years taking jobs where I could work opposite shifts than my husband.

And for moms of special needs kids, could you do this? I couldn't as I find myself very protective of my dd and can't imagine not being there for her on a regular basis and able to go to her if needed.

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I dream to escape!

There is a way to say what you just said.

It was not said in that way in the other thread.

It was said with a very, very ugly tone and the implication was that she was parading her baby around on her hip to garner attention. The poster also threw out that she, too, has a disabled child so I guess she thought that meant she got a pass to pass judgment on the way someone else chose to parent their disabled child.

Would I do what Palin is doing? No, and the issues my children have are a far cry from what her son faces.

Then again, I don't have the drive to accomplish what she has in her life thus far.

I may be a weirdo, but I think dads are every bit as important in the lives of children as moms. The Kennedy children were young and had a father who was very busy with his job. Same with Carter. Clinton had a daughter at home.

If we're truly going to be 'equal opportunity' types, we need to be every bit as indignant that Obama would consider such a demanding job while his daughters are so young. The biggest predictor of how a girl will turn out is said to be the relationship she has with her father.

Would I do what she's doing? No. Would I recommend it? No. Do I know how the dynamics work in their household to say for sure they can't pull it off just fine? No again.

She has 4 kids, the oldest who is joining the military. I have a feeling they will make this work. I raised an ADHD kid. Talk about being busy!!! lol I wonder if you would feel this way if this was a man? Would that be ok if the wife was home with the child? Don't you think they may have some extra help to help with all the little stuff we "normal" moms have to do? Cooking, cleaning, grocery shopping, etc... that would leave time for quality time. Large families tend to help each other and with the three older siblings at home that child will get lots of love. And she seems like one tough woman. I couldn't do it but I can't say she can't!

Do you remember that a lot of what HRC caught flack for was her billing hours at the Rose Law Firm in Little Rock? I realize the issue was related to the way things were double-billed, but that brought to light the many hours she had worked there, tirelessly.

All this whle Chelsea was a very young girl.

I wouldn't do it and it's not how I raised my kids. I've always been a WAHM in some form or fashion. I'm sure that if I'd been a mom when Clinton ran that I'd have felt critical of them for both having jobs that kept them away from their little girl so much. It's just not something I condone as being in the best interests of the child.

I'm curious as to how Palin intends to handle her responsibilities. I really am. But I do assume that their entire family would move to the house of the VP at the Naval Observatory and that Dad wouldn't stay back in Alaska. Given that his vocation isn't something he can *do* from DC, I assume he'd be in charge of the kids while they lived in DC.

I guess we'll see. They haven't really said yet.

They have 5 children not 4

I'd feel the same way if she was a he. I'm not saying it isn't doable, but will the baby and her job both get the best of her? And there are medical issues in down's babies that you do not see in children with adhd, autistm, etc. We can only speculate at this time. And I think the Clintons are a totally different situation. While I was a Hillary supporter, I think most nannies are quite a bit more maternal than Hillary

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I dream to escape!

Oops, my bad. Anyone know how old they all are? I could look it up, but it's Friday night and I'm being lazy!

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I dream to escape!

Track, 18; Bristol, 17; Willow, 13; Piper, 7; and Trig, 4 months.

sl -

There is no doubt how / what she wanted to convey in that awful statement, and in further statements that she did choose to make. I say choose, since she has chosen to not respond to several posters. Her point was made and I read it clearly.

There was a better way to raise some issues, as you have managed to do by balancing your thoughts, words, and style.

Maybe people see BO's wife ready to see their children through the White House years, and yet they can't see her husband doing the same. Talk about experience, she has more children and more years of raising them than BO and yet no uproar over his kids. One step forward, two steps backward comes to mind. Comparing apples to oranges comes to mind.

dl

Sarah Palin seems to balance work and her kids great. Actually she is still breatfeeding the baby. In the People's interview she was talking about that in the middle of the night she lays down the Blackberries and gets out the breast pump. How long will she continue that I do not know.

If anything at all women such not attack another woman just because she has a down syndrome child and trying to advance her career. She might think by helping the country by becoming VP she will make the world a better place for her children.
How come when the woman wants to advance her career people question how the children will be?


Would people say the same about mothers that are serving in the military and leave their children in the care of their husband or family? And gone on duty for months, year at a time. I do not think all those children are "perfect" (lack of a better word) health.

I think the military is no place for a mother especially ones with a special needs baby

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I dream to escape!

There are lots of families that make different sacrifices for their partners careers. Maybe, Mr. Palin will get a different job, work at home (a couple of examples).

There is no reason that SHE has to be the 1 to end her career because of happening to have a "downs syndrome" children or a child with any other handicap/illness.. Remember that child is also a product of the father.

In discussion about Palin's baby, and other babies/children with special needs:

Can we say "baby with Down Syndrome" rather than "down's baby" when discussing the VP nominee's child (or any child with Down Syndrome)?

It really creeps me out to hear it this way. It is more fair to call them "kids with..." since they are kids first and foremost. Seems like a minor point and a semantic issue to some, but it makes a big impact in how we perceive people with differences/disabilities.



Editing to add that after everything I've read so far, I feel that this woman is more than deserving of the chance to become VP of this country. It seems that she and her husband already has a plan for taking very good care of their children. Have there been any complaints lodged that she has been unable to govern Alaska effectively since her baby was born this year? Her family seems to be well-cared for, too. It seems their family plan works for them. So I have no problems with it.

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

WOW!!!

Why not??? What if they have a non-military spouse in the home? Would you still feel this way?

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Wow! Just Wow!

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I hope her judgment in politics is better than her judgment in naming children, LOL.

I do 110% especially considering Iraq deployment and such. Think about this. Mom or dad is deployed to Iraq. Mom or dad steps on landmine and dies. Now there is a single parent with a child that will never be able to live on his or her own (assuming baby has Down's Syndrome). Is this fair to the child? Mom or dad CHOSE to have a job in the military and risk their lives. I think it is selfish for a parent of a child such us the VP nominee's.

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I dream to escape!

Nope, I would have the same problem if HE was the one chosen to run as VP!

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I dream to escape!

So you think it is responsible of a parent of a child that will never live on his or her own, to put their life at risk and risk going to war? I think that's not fair to the child.

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I dream to escape!

The OP was speaking from experience. It's her perspective and she is far better qualified to know how much effort raising a handicapped child takes.

Personal experience? Why would that matter when the Righteous Witches go a-hunting?

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Reading is Fundamental.

There ya go. Resort to the name-calling when there is no defense for what you said.

Our symbol isn't an elephant for nothing.

I'm sorry, but when did having a disability mean one could never live on their own??

I think that we as parents have to do what is not only best for our children, but what is best for ourselves. What's fair to the child is providing them with as much love, compassion and nurturing as possible. You give the child as much as you possible can in the hopes that one day they will learn to be as independent as they possible can!

I refuse to judge this woman simply because she is pursuing her want/desire. I do not feel that she is doing anything wrong, immoral or unethical in regards to her child.

And as I so often tell my children---life is often not fair. You do the best you can. You control what you can, fix what you can, you DO what you can, and the rest is in God's hands (or fate, or karms or whatever your belief is).

I disagree with you--that doesn't make either of "wrong", just means we have different opinions.

And truble--the same goes for you. I may not agree with you--but that doesn't mean either of us are wrong. I really think that you are taking comments far to personally. Which makes me wonder, because you are not normally like that.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Excellent points.

Very typically, people with Down Syndrome these days live in group homes together, which are supervised as needed, and allow the residents of the home to function as independently as possible. Usually adults having Down Syndrome prefer to live among peers, and are able to be contributing members of the community.

Gone are the days when there was no choice for people with Down Syndrome (or their families) but to plan for living together for life. In fact, those days have been gone for a long time.

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

One always had the option of institutionalizing their child in the old days.

I would have to say amen to that.

How do you know some of us are not speaking from close personal experience?
We might have siblings, our children, nieces, nephews, cousins that have Down Syndrome or other handicaps/illness.

The point is not that you aren't; the point is that you immediately discard the opinions and experience of those of us who have affirmatively stated that we are.

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Reading is Fundamental.

This is a totally sexist argument - If it were a "Mr" Palin running for office this would not even be an issue. Are we to say that ALL moms with Down Syndrome children have to stay at home, not work?

There has been some discussion on the various news stations about if the dad is going to be a stay-at-home dad. Well, why not! How many women have changed their lives to follow their husband's career paths? (pretty much what forrestlayne said)

It's not like she is abandoning the child.

(as stated by wowitsdark) - Unless things have changed, the VP's family will live together in the same house in DC. It's not like she is going to be in DC and the rest of the family staying in Alaska. She's still going to be there, she's still going to be Mom.

I don't think there is a large call for commercial fishermen in the DC area, so I don't see why dad wouldn't step up and take on the responsibilities of being the stay-at-home dad.

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Mary

Do you really think that running for VP is the same as any other job in America? Moreover, as many of us have said -- repeatedly, apparently to deaf ears -- the issue isn't just, or even primarily, the child's disability, the issue is that he's a four month old baby.

Based on previous discussion on these boards, I would guess that a fair amount of the readership would feel that moms with ANY (with or without Down's Syndrome) children should have to stay at home, not work. This tends to be a community that doesn't embrace successful, working women - only those who HAVE to work to make ends meet.

cj/

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I was walking home one night and a guy hammering on a roof called me a paranoid little weirdo. In morse code. -Emo Phillips

Yes, the effort of being on the computer all day? working? cleaning? running from store to store? Others have experience also and can discuss this without calling names, being rude, constantly pounding for sources, asserting they know more than others, going through a phase of having nothing to say except you're funny and constatly twisting words to selectively replying.

dl

I don't think all children with Down's Syndrome grow up to be adults that can not live alone. Some even marry.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I understand it's a baby. Even if she is breast feeding, she can pump and still let the dad take care of the child. Or is your point that a father cannot supply the love and nurturing that a mom can...while mom is away at work?

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Mary

Not only people in the military are at risk of dieing on the job. I do think I understand what you are trying to say, I just don't agree with it.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

This woman is trying to make the world a better place for not only her children, but, ours as well.

I agree Marilyn, I don't think she is doing anything wrong, either.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

THANK YOU!!!

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

To the second, not at all. I think it would be great if more dads kicked in more. But do you think she's going to bring the baby with her all around the country? Maybe she is. Maybe she'll have time with him. I guess time will tell.

I was going to post this on the other thread, but, it is now locked, so here it goes:
Down Syndrome: For Parents

Also, if you google "baby with downs syndrome" you get tons more info. and can even find some people who have chosen to Blog about their experiences with it.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

To be honest, I generally do not think it is in the best interests of a baby to be separated from it's mother for long periods of time. I also do think that a mom brings a different aspect of parenting to a child's life than a dad does, and that both are important to the development of a child. While I wouldn't prohibit a woman from entering the military based on the fact that she has a child, I would also say that I don't believe that signing on to go overseas to battle is the best decision a mother can make on behalf of her child.

And if I'm being as intellectually honest as I can possibly be, I think if Sarah Palin were on the Democratic ticket that I'd look at her decision to run with a very critical eye. I do think that babies need their mommies.

With that said, here is why I am not as concerned about the welfare of her child as she runs for VP:

1) She and her husband have raised four other kids, and it appears that so far they're on a solid track. They're not old enough for us to really know, though. Joe Biden has two sons and one of them has not fared all that well as an adult. Would things have been different for him if his dad had stepped out of the public eye, got a 'normal' job, and spent more time with his boys than his job allowed? We'll never know, but he's on the opposite end of the timeline where kids and politics are concerned, and there may be lessons to learn from his story.

2) She has a husband, and articles I read about them from prior to her even being on any list at all for the VP slot indicate that he has a history of being an equal caretaker with her. Her other kids are also going to be along for the ride, and her baby is part of a *family*. The presence of that *family* will be sustained on the campaign bus, even if mom gets out for an hour two or three times a day to make a speech.

3) We're looking at 2 1/2 months of time on the road. If she wins, while her job will be demanding there will be some sense of normalcy and stability as the family takes up residence in Washington for the next 16 years. If she doesn't win, she heads back to Alaska and takes up where she left off. Campaigning isn't going to become a way of life. It's temporary.

Am I rationalizing because I support her political views? Probably to some extent. But I do believe that there are some things that some women can pull off that others can't. I couldn't do it. No way, no how. I've always been a WAHM and don't think that I'd have done a good job juggling a life at an office and being mom at night. It's just not in sync with my own personal skill set. But I have friends who have pulled it off well, so I'd be foolish to ignore the fact that it *can* be done effectively by some women.

And by all accounts, it appears to me that Sarah Palin is one of those women.

If I vote for a canidate it will be for the platforms for which they stand not their family life. She has had a job for the last several years that came with perks that enabled her to do the job for which she was hired. She is a real go getter and is very knowlegable on the enviroment and natural resourses. She has done an exemplary job and she was more qualified in some areas than the "good ol boys' that were mentioned in the press. They polls that were taken were saying we need a new face..she has one. We need help with gas and oil. She knows of what she speaks. They said we are tired of the BS and she is a new slate. Judge whatever canidate you choose by their qualifications. I guarentee that you will NOT like or agree with everything that another person does.

I agree, Icansave. There are some personal decisions people make that are a window into their character, though, and it's how people behave in times of pressure that not only builds their character, but tells us what their character is. Character is *displayed* - good or bad - under stress.

And I'd say McCain didn't display good character when he cheated on his first wife repeatedly. I'm watching a CNN special on him right now and am not impressed with that aspect of his history.

I do appreciate, however, his ability to look retrospectively at it and admit he was wrong. If he were found to be doing the same thing today I would have a difficult time voting for him because he's denied continuing that behavior in his second marriage. It would mean he is a liar, and we don't need liars in office.

If what I read is true, Palin let the personal chef go at Alaska's governor's mansion, saying she can make her kid's sandwiches herself. She stuck the governor's luxury jet on eBay. I don't think those things were necessary, but the fact that *she* did says something about her style that I do like.

I like that she cleaned corrupt Republicans out of Alaska politics. I believe in Republican ideals, and don't think it's to the benefit of conservativism to allow corrupt conservatives to get a pass because ultimately, not only is it deceptive but it's counterproductive. She didn't let the end - having Republican politics prevail - justify the means - seeing her ideals prevail by corrupt, back-door methods.

That's very rare, and something we need more of. IMHO, of course.

Which son?

Iowa Independent All in the Family: Hunter Biden

Delaware Attorney General

Ya know what? I'm going to confess that I completely misunderstood something today.

I've had CNN on and they were discussing the families of the candidates earlier. During the conversations it was mentioned that Biden rarely mentions his son Hunter on the campaign trail - that you hear a lot about Beau because he's serving in the military overseas and talking about him is good press, but that there are things about his other son that aren't going to impress people at all, so he rarely mentions him.

The way it was said gave me the impression that he had a history of scrapes with the law, something not uncommon to the children of politicians.

Now that I'm actually poking around to verify it (and thanks for the challenge, by the way), I see that the criticisms that might be lodged against him have to do with his vocation and the fact that connections between Hunter's lobbying firm in DC and his father's office are more cozy than perhaps they should be. Or at least, a lot could certainly be made of it if someone were of a mind to undermine him.

I apologize for misunderstanding the nature of what might be worth keeping in the background.

There were plenty of other politicians I could've used to make that point, and I regret that I didn't go that route!

Biden's Son Works As Capitol Hill Lobbyist - The American Spark

I do not think it goes well with Obama's "no lobbyists" talk

You're correct. It doesn't.

But.... that wasn't the point I was using him to make, so I shouldn't have pulled him into my paragraphs above.

That's odd. We must have different CNNs. I've had CNN on all day in the background as I write a paper that is due on Tuesday. I've been mostly paying attention to the hurricane stuff, because if it is bad, I may have to go there for a while as a part of my job. I don't recall hearing anything like that though. I wish one on my sons was so unimpressive/ R. Hunter Biden - SourceWatch

ETA: His military kid is a JAG -- I don't think they are in much "danger" in the sense of getting his head blown off other than the fact anybody in that area of the world isn't particularly safe.

I understand it wasn't the point you was trying to make.

But I do think this is interesting:

Biden's Son Employed in Profession Obama Disdains: Lobbying - Yahoo! News

"Aug. 24 (Bloomberg) -- Barack Obama's speech announcing his running mate Joe Biden singled out the Delaware senator's son who is headed for Iraq. Obama didn't mention the profession of Biden's other son, who lobbied for two drug companies and five universities."


Ok: sorry for the side-note ..hopefully the post will get back to what you was trying to talk about.

I guess the fact his son is also an Attorney General, the third highest ranking person in Deleware, and its chief law enforcement officer is immaterial?

Careful, your Rush is showing ....

Actually, if you bothered to read my original post, I HAVE been in the work force and balancing it was extremely hard. I took a job that was 2pm to as late as 2am some nights because we could not find childcare that would take our daughter because of her disability. I managed for 3 years on 4 hrs of sleep a night, taking care of my 2 (eventually 3) children and working up to 60 hrs a week. My daughter needed 1 of her parents home at all times.

Please feel free to show where I have called names, been rude or anything else you stated in this post. To answer your lovely effort question. Running from store to store? NEVER considering bringing my dd to a store was not an option as she could not communicate for years and simply gave terrifing screams. Being on a computer all day? I never was as we couldn't afford the internet then. Cleaning? Yeah, it was a joy to clean poop off of walls cause that was how she communicated that she had pooped. And while cleaning that, another mess would be made cause I dared take my eyes off of her. An then taking her to specialists, doctors and back again.

Don't you dare make assumptions on others as you are so far from the truth. And to others who think that it's easy, think again. Until you have walked in a special needs parents shoes, I'd refrain from crass comments.

My daughter is now in 5th grade and is doing awesome, but what we went thru is unimaginable to a parent that hasn't experienced it. That is why I have concern about the ability of a VP to handle it all. I have always worked in some form and the majority has been outside of my home until the last few years. I was simply trying to explain my views on why I don't agree with her decision to run with McCain.

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I dream to escape!

Wish I could tell you what time it was on or who said it. It wasn't a big point at all - something of a side issue when they were mentioning the fact that both veep candidates had sons going overseas.

I rarely watch CNN - I usually watch Fox - but if I'm ever going to 'venture out' it's to CNN and never MSNBC.

Speaking of the hurricaine coverage, it does look like things are being handled quite well down there right now in terms of evacuations. Michael Moore sounded pleased that it's landfall will probably coincide with the first day of the RNC convention.

nightowl, I realize this goes against everything you believe in, but right now if you're looking for hurricaine coverage Fox is where it's at. If CNN is showing the rerun of the Obama special in your area and you're of a mind to switch, it looks like Geraldo is on and his coverage is centered primarily on that issue.... weather maps and all.

The only reason I said anything is because Obama has talked a lot about "no lobbyists" money taken for his campaign, etc. Even goes so far to give a press speech about the very issue.

His other stuff is fine (great achievements) ..I just always wonder why certain things are omitted.

The real question is whether Joe Biden knew anyone from Dunder Mifflin.

Please go back and read post #9 to see that I didn’t direct anything at you. I have no idea of much about you. It was your defense of others that caught my attention. Everyone is so fast to decide that no one else knows what they go through.

Truly, you took my post as being directed at you and it wasn't. There are several points in there, almost all, that have nothing to do with what you said, nothing. Nothing. I apologize that you took to heart something personally when that wasn't what was going on. This wasn’t about you.

dl

Thanks for the weather info. We've been surfing all the news channels. I am "hoping" to have a job offer for another agency in the next week or two. On a totally selfish note, having to go to NO would really mess up my life right now. I am so very glad they are evacuating. After Katrina, we didn't have to go down until about 10 days had passed, so I am hoping I can get my new job offer and put in my resignation before being called up to go.

And, I am SO tired of hearing about the little girl's mother ... what a circus.

As to this thread ... sorry to interrupt ....

I guess I don't get your point. Are you saying Biden's son has given money to the Obama campaign as a lobby effort?

Closed thread....past 50 posts. Please feel free to open a new one on this topic. Thanks!

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