Mr. Minister, Mr. Christian, Mr. Chuckabee last night claimed that Sarah Palin got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla than Joe Biden did running for president. That would be a lie.

Link

Fred Thompson claimed that McCain refused to deal with his Vietnamese captors on giving up information in exchange for medical treatment. That would be a lie. That's exactly what McCain did.


Link

McCain claimed that Palin was an experienced public official while Obama was a mere community organizer (talk to Martin Luther King's family about how worthless those community officials are). That would be a lie.

Link

Add your lie! I'd say Lie of the Day, but they come far too fast and furious for that.

[quote=truble2301;3040546]Link

Fred Thompson claimed that McCain refused to deal with his Vietnamese captors on giving up information in exchange for medical treatment. That would be a lie. That's exactly what McCain did.




Link



Back off about the details of McCain's military experience. It's a moot point. I'll take a stab in the dark and assume you've never fought for your country. McCain was willing to die for it to perserve the freedoms we have. McCain didn't say these things; he can't control what they are saying.

__________________
" Even though life can be a very long, hard, stressful and never-ending journey, never lose hope in what you want the most."

[quote=momtolfi;3040564]You mean back-off calling his campaign on the lies about his military experience? Noun, verb, POW. That's MCCain's campaign these days. It's fair game, because HE put it out there.


Just curious -- did you tell the Swift Boaters to back off Kerry?

[quote=momtolfi;3040564]It's not a moot point. McCain sang like a bird.

Truble is fighting for her country right now by trying to get avoid another tragic choice in Presidency.

McCain fought with a gun...not words. I really don't think that posting on a computer is fighting for your county...to each their own, I guess. Don't worry, my husband and other military will pick up that gun for her.

__________________
" Even though life can be a very long, hard, stressful and never-ending journey, never lose hope in what you want the most."

[quote=momtolfi;3040564][quote=momtolfi;3040546

Back off about the details of McCain's military experience. It's a moot point. I'll take a stab in the dark and assume you've never fought for your country. McCain was willing to die for it to perserve the freedoms we have. McCain didn't say these things; he can't control what they are saying.[/QUOTE]

Strangly this wasn't an off-limits topic when Kerry was running. Why would this be any different in this race?

__________________
I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

More GOP lies

"GOP Convention Spin September 3, 2008
Lieberman and Thompson make misleading claims about Obama on Day Two of the party in St. Paul.

Summary
Joe Lieberman and his former Senate colleague Fred Thompson both made misleading claims about Obama in their prime time GOP convention speeches on Tuesday. We've heard two of them before – many times.

Lieberman said Obama hadn't "reached across party lines" to accomplish "anything significant," though Obama has teamed with GOP Sens. Tom Coburn and Richard Lugar to pass laws enhancing government transparency and curtailing the proliferation of nuclear and conventional weapons.

Thompson repeated misleading claims about Obama's tax program, saying it would bring "one of the largest tax increases in American history." But as increases go, Obama's package is hardly a history-maker. It would raise taxes for families with incomes above $250,000. Most people would see a cut.

Lieberman also accused Obama of "voting to cut off funding for our American troops on the battlefield." But Obama's only vote against a war-funding bill came after Bush vetoed a version of the bill Obama had supported – and McCain urged the veto."

FactCheck.org: GOP Convention Spin

Do you really think that any of us should take up arms and march on Washington because we loathe what Republicans have done to this country?

It's much better to spread information and views by posting on a board than taking up arms.

AP: Attacks, Praise Stretch Truth At GOP Convention



ST. PAUL, Minn. — Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin and her Republican supporters held back little Wednesday as they issued dismissive attacks on Barack Obama and flattering praise on her credentials to be vice president. In some cases, the reproach and the praise stretched the truth.

Some examples:

PALIN: "I have protected the taxpayers by vetoing wasteful spending ... and championed reform to end the abuses of earmark spending by Congress. I told the Congress 'thanks but no thanks' for that Bridge to Nowhere."

THE FACTS: As mayor of Wasilla, Palin hired a lobbyist and traveled to Washington annually to support earmarks for the town totaling $27 million. In her two years as governor, Alaska has requested nearly $750 million in special federal spending, by far the largest per-capita request in the nation. While Palin notes she rejected plans to build a $398 million bridge from Ketchikan to an island with 50 residents and an airport, that opposition came only after the plan was ridiculed nationally as a "bridge to nowhere."

PALIN: "There is much to like and admire about our opponent. But listening to him speak, it's easy to forget that this is a man who has authored two memoirs but not a single major law or reform _ not even in the state senate."

THE FACTS: Compared to McCain and his two decades in the Senate, Obama does have a more meager record. But he has worked with Republicans to pass legislation that expanded efforts to intercept illegal shipments of weapons of mass destruction and to help destroy conventional weapons stockpiles. The legislation became law last year. To demean that accomplishment would be to also demean the work of Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, a respected foreign policy voice in the Senate. In Illinois, he was the leader on two big, contentious measures in Illinois: studying racial profiling by police and requiring recordings of interrogations in potential death penalty cases. He also successfully co-sponsored major ethics reform legislation.

PALIN: "The Democratic nominee for president supports plans to raise income taxes, raise payroll taxes, raise investment income taxes, raise the death tax, raise business taxes, and increase the tax burden on the American people by hundreds of billions of dollars."

THE FACTS: The Tax Policy Center, a think tank run jointly by the Brookings Institution and the Urban Institute, concluded that Obama's plan would increase after-tax income for middle-income taxpayers by about 5 percent by 2012, or nearly $2,200 annually. McCain's plan, which cuts taxes across all income levels, would raise after tax-income for middle-income taxpayers by 3 percent, the center concluded.
Story continues below
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Obama would provide $80 billion in tax breaks, mainly for poor workers and the elderly, including tripling the Earned Income Tax Credit for minimum-wage workers and higher credits for larger families.

He also would raise income taxes, capital gains and dividend taxes on the wealthiest. He would raise payroll taxes on taxpayers with incomes above $250,000, and he would raise corporate taxes. Small businesses that make more than $250,000 a year would see taxes rise.

MCCAIN: "She's been governor of our largest state, in charge of 20 percent of America's energy supply ... She's responsible for 20 percent of the nation's energy supply. I'm entertained by the comparison and I hope we can keep making that comparison that running a political campaign is somehow comparable to being the executive of the largest state in America," he said in an interview with ABC News' Charles Gibson.

THE FACTS: McCain's phrasing exaggerates both claims. Palin is governor of a state that ranks second nationally in crude oil production, but she's no more "responsible" for that resource than President Bush was when he was governor of Texas, another oil-producing state. In fact, her primary power is the ability to tax oil, which she did in concert with the Alaska Legislature. And where Alaska is the largest state in America, McCain could as easily have called it the 47th largest state _ by population.

MCCAIN: "She's the commander of the Alaska National Guard. ... She has been in charge, and she has had national security as one of her primary responsibilities," he said on ABC.

THE FACTS: While governors are in charge of their state guard units, that authority ends whenever those units are called to actual military service. When guard units are deployed to Iraq or Afghanistan, for example, they assume those duties under "federal status," which means they report to the Defense Department, not their governors. Alaska's national guard units have a total of about 4,200 personnel, among the smallest of state guard organizations.

FORMER ARKANSAS GOV. MIKE HUCKABEE: Palin "got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla, Alaska than Joe Biden got running for president of the United States."

THE FACTS: A whopper. Palin got 616 votes in the 1996 mayor's election, and got 909 in her 1999 re-election race, for a total of 1,525. Biden dropped out of the race after the Iowa caucuses, but he still got 76,165 votes in 23 states and the District of Columbia where he was on the ballot during the 2008 presidential primaries.

FORMER MASSACHUSETTS GOV. MITT ROMNEY: "We need change, all right _ change from a liberal Washington to a conservative Washington! We have a prescription for every American who wants change in Washington _ throw out the big-government liberals, and elect John McCain and Sarah Palin."

THE FACTS: A Back-to-the-Future moment. George W. Bush, a conservative Republican, has been president for nearly eight years. And until last year, Republicans controlled Congress. Only since January 2007 have Democrats have been in charge of the House and Senate.

AP: Attacks, Praise Stretch Truth At GOP Convention

If it’s a moot point why does McCain bring up his POW experience every single time he speaks?

I was saying that I don't consider fighting for your country can be done through a post on a message board.

__________________
" Even though life can be a very long, hard, stressful and never-ending journey, never lose hope in what you want the most."

The moot point is that the nit pickiness about his service. He served and he should bring it up..what military experience has Obama done for our country? I would rather a former POW as commander in chief than someone with no experience.

__________________
" Even though life can be a very long, hard, stressful and never-ending journey, never lose hope in what you want the most."

[quote=truble2301;3040568]Yes, I don't think you should criticize someone's military experience.

__________________
" Even though life can be a very long, hard, stressful and never-ending journey, never lose hope in what you want the most."

Just an observation--but when someone, anyone, uses their military experience as a basis for people to vote for them, you damn skippy it should be scrutinized and criticized if needed!

I would bet that Gen. Wesley Clarke wouldn't care if someone scrutinized his service, or Colin Powell for the matter! (would love it if the two of them ran--either together or seperate!!! )

McCain does not get to pull the "I am a veteran and was a POW" card without expecting some backlash--just like Palin can't use the gender card and Obama can't use the race card. How would you feel if everytime you turned around Biden was using "I'm a widower" as a reason to vote for him/his ticket??

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

[quote=momtolfi;3040675]Me either!

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

Do you see us as a nation that must always be at war? Is that why our president needs to be skilled in killing people and breaking things?

A nation must not always be a war, but it MUST ALWAYS be prepared to be at war. Moreover, rather than simplifying the military and indicating they merely "kill people and break things" it would be more accurate to say they have and continue to liberate millions of people, bring much needed medical treatment to people, build infrastructure, build schools, build water plants, bring aid to people in countries hit by natural disasters, bring aid to our countrymen in time of natural disasters, etc. I think it's really sad and misinformed that our military is just a force to "kill people and break things."

__________________
Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

If military experience matters, she must have voted for Kerry over Bush then, right?

While I don't think the US should be the ones to liberate millions (why should we always have to be the hero? KWIM?) I agree with everything else.

It's not just sad and misinformed to label the military personnel as only killing people and breaking things--it is incredibly disrespectful to the men and women who have chosen to volunteer to protect me and you. Not happy w/ the statment "kill people and break things"! Very disrespectful!!

Lack of respect (and yes, I'm talking to both "sides) is a big reason why our country can't fix some of the problems we have. The atmosphere is so partisian that one side won't acknowledge that the other side might possibly have a good idea or *gasp* be right about something!

Frankly, I'm just disgusted with the whole mess! I'm not asking that everyone agree or even get along--but my God, can't we at least respect one another and be civil?

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

And More.....


"Maverick Misleads September 4, 2008
A McCain ad comparing Palin to Obama isn't all above board.

Summary
McCain's campaign launched a TV ad touting his running mate, Palin, and offering a comparison to Obama. Some of its claims are off the mark:

It says Obama "gave big oil billions in subsidies and giveaways," citing his votes for a 2005 energy bill. But the bill slightly raised taxes on the oil industry overall.

The ad plucked a positive blurb about Palin from an Associated Press article that, in fact, was very much a mixed review. The AP said she "brings an ethical shadow to the [Republican] ticket," for example.

The ad says Obama is the "most liberal" Senator. But the National Journal rated him the 16th most liberal in his first year and the 10th most liberal in his second. It rated his votes "most liberal" only in 2007, when he was busy campaigning and missed one-third of the votes on which the rating is based."

FactCheck.org: Maverick Misleads

I remember hearing that when McCain gave information he gave alot of nonsense stuff to make them happy. Didn't he give sports stats when they wanted info with numbers? I think I remember that.

You might want to read his books. Of course, those "facts" are probably subject to change as well.

I don't think that we liberated any peoples that actually wanted to be liberated since WWII. That sure isn't why we went to Iraq or Afghanistan. They do bring medical supplies and food to people in other countries after disasters strikes. As far as infrastructure goes, we have farmed almost everything out to contractors, aka Bush cronies, with cost plus 2% contracts.

Our military is not like the Boy Scouts. They are trained to kill and inflict as much damage as they can. For me, the only excuse for war should be self defense or the defense of our allies. I would also intervene in Darfur to stop the atrocities that occur daily.

OK--I have to disagree with you on a couple of things: 1) why we went to Iraq and/or Afghanistan is debatable. But we went--and we certainly did liberate some people. And yes ma'am those people wanted to be liberated. 2) Military are trained to do so much more than kill and inflict damage--they really are! Of course they have training in how to kill and how to inflict as much damage as necessary--but that is not their only training.

You would intervene in Darfur due to the atrocities there, but intervening in Iraq was wrong? I'm not asking what you think the real reason is we went there--I'm asking if it's ok to intervene in Darfur (and please define what you mean by "intervene"), how come it wasn't/isn't ok to intervene in Iraq?

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Intervening in Iraq was most certainly wrong. We went to Iraq because Bush said that Iraq had WMD, that they had reconstituted a nuclear weapon program, and Saddam Hussein had tried to kill his daddy.
An official at the Pentagon said the war wasn't about oil. It was about bandwith.

It's true that the ex-pats, Allawi and Chalabi, both urged an invasion of Iraq for humanitarian reasons, of course. They have been urging our officials to invade through several administrations along with any government that would give them an audience.

The people of Iraq were horrified by our invasion. The people you saw danciing around the toppled statue were Chalabi's people. Other journalists showed a much larger crowd standing in silence.

The people of Iraq do not have clean water, reliable electricity or control of their own company.

The last estimate that I have seen (about 6 months ago) were 1,200,000. God only knows how many people have been liberated from their arms, legs or eyesight.

I'm not arguing with you. But, based on the first hand account that I have heard from a dear friend that spent a year over there (he's USMC)-- some of those people were very happy to have us there.

And you're still missing the point--I didn't ask WHY we went to Iraq or whether you agreed w/ the "official" reason(or the unofficial reasons). I think we can all agree that there were atrocities occurring in Iraq, that would be on the same scale as Darfur. Why would it be ok to intervene (again, please define your specifics on intervention) in Darfur, but not in Iraq?

I'm truly trying to understand your rationale and reasons, but if you won't address my questions, I really can't.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Saddam was best known for his gassing of the Kurds. After the first Gulf War, the administration encouraged the Kurds to rise up. Bush 41 more or less implied we would back them up. We didn't. We should have; we could have easily done so.

Saddam did have goons who conducted torture (so do we) against his political enemies. Did the country support him? No. His days were numbered. No dictator's scion has ever lasted long. The people knew how to get around him. He did have a very good educational system and hospital system in place. He wasn't trying to kill off certain segments of the population.

Some of the Shia would have been happy to see us, I'm sure. We caused so many more deaths than Saddam.

Darfur is quite different. We don't need to send our troops unless the African Union is no longer able to do their jobs. They are starved for funding and our money would be better spent there than anywhere else.

I would say PRIDE. He's proud of his country EVERYDAY!!!

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Sooo it’s not a moot point then

I was raised in a military family and have lived all my life in a military community, just about everyone I know is either in the military or has ties to the military. None of them wear their military service on their sleeve they are very humble about their service. Me thinks since John has to mention it every time he opens his mouth the reason has to do with something other than pride

Humble isn't exactly McCain's trademark, is it? Perhaps he keeps mentioning it since that's the last thing he did to be proud of.

I think it is safe to assume that you are not running for President, tho. Serving one's country is a very noble thing to do, and something to be very proud of. Nothing wrong with that. Having been raised in a military family, as you say you were, I would think you would feel the same way. I, too, have many military members in my family, and my pride "runneth over" I don't trot it out every time I speak. If I were running for a public office, serving the people, you'd better believe my military service would be mentioned.

I find it dispicable the way people are making light of his service and time as a POW. Those same people think Gov. Palin insulted "community organizers" with what she said. Hmmmmm........

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

I didn't pay much attention to politics at this time, so unfortunately didn't see it first hand. If they are indeed making light of Kerry's (sorry, is that who it was???) military service, shame on THEM. Does that make it appropriate for you (general you, referring to anyone making light of McCain's service) to make light of someone else's service?? As my Mom would always say, two wrongs don't make a right.

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Actually, some of them are like the Boy Scouts. This was clearly displayed by our fine Coast Guard performing many rescues of Hurricane Katrina victims in New Orleans. I didn't see them killing anyone.

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Not at all. But it is appropriate to remind those members of the party who seem to think they have a corner on supporting and honoring the troops just how quickly that enthusiam turned ugly because the man who earned the purple heart belonged to the democratic party. IMO, if Senator McCain is going to use his POW experiences as one of the reasons he should be elected and his story doesn't match with the facts, than the record is open to examination and criticism.

__________________
Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

Just for the record.....it isnt a trademark of Obama's either....I find it so obnoxious that in Obama's store you cant find one thing that has Biden's name on it....Even on the signs they held up during the convention..Bidens's name was slightly muted in blue, so that when the signs were held up you could barely see Biden's name....but Obama's was in bright white...He is so into his self, he wont even put his running mate's name on a bumper sticker!!!!OLOLOLOLOLL Humble....I say not.....LOLOLOLOL Sherri

__________________
"It isn't that liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

I don't think that Sen Barack was making the signs up in his garage with magic marker and poster board. I really wouldn't hold him too responsible for the sinage with both names on it.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

Now hold it right there.

He himself talked about how he's running his campaign and therefore has executive experience, big budget and all, so I think we do in fact get to hold him responsible.

Well who would you hold responsible????? NO he isnt in his garage with a magic marker...thats a ridiculous statement...but dont you think he had a say so in the way his signs look.....He wanted his name to shine....and you think he isnt aware that Biden's name isnt on anything...You my dear, are too easily fooled...he knows exactly what he is doing.....he wants all the limelight...he isnt going to share it with anyone..not even his running mate......After all he is the messiah and he really didnt need a running mate anyway.....those what 2 1/3 yrs in the senate have taught him all he needs to know... Sherri

__________________
"It isn't that liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

Mr. Minister, Mr. Christian, Mr. Chuckabee last night claimed that Sarah Palin got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla than Joe Biden did running for president. That would be a lie.

Your dicing words hear. I don't think Biden ever ran for President. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Biden was a running for his party's nomination to run for President.


Link

Fred Thompson claimed that McCain refused to deal with his Vietnamese captors on giving up information in exchange for medical treatment. That would be a lie. That's exactly what McCain did.

He was taken to the Maison Centrale, known to POWs as the Hanoi Hilton, where he did lapse in and out of consciousness for four days and refuse his interrogators' demands for information. But then, McCain recounts, he tried a different approach with a prison officer nicknamed "Bug.''

"Desperate, I tried to bargain with him. 'Take me to the hospital and I'll give you the information you want.' I didn't intend to keep my word, reasoning that after my injuries had been treated, I would be strong enough to deal with the consequences of not holding up my end of the bargain,'' McCain wrote.

Exactly where in your quote does it say he gave up information in exchange for medical treatment?


Link

McCain claimed that Palin was an experienced public official while Obama was a mere community organizer (talk to Martin Luther King's family about how worthless those community officials are). That would be a lie.

Republican presidential candidate John S. McCain 3rd says his vice presidential pick, Sarah H. Palin, was already an experienced government official while his Democratic rival, Barack H. Obama, was working as a community organizer.

She wasn’t. Palin was finishing college, getting married and working as a TV sportscaster when Obama was directing a church-based community group on Chicago’s South Side in 1985-88.

Yes, you are kinda right on that one. She was already an experienced public official while he was in law school. Palin became a public official in 1992. Obama was just graduating. He did not become a public official until 1996. Maybe he should have said Palin was already an experienced government official while his rival, Barack H. Obama, was a student.



Lieberman said Obama hadn't "reached across party lines" to accomplish "anything significant," though Obama has teamed with GOP Sens. Tom Coburn and Richard Lugar to pass laws enhancing government transparency and curtailing the proliferation of nuclear and conventional weapons.

He was not the sponsor of this bill at all. He was the co-sponsor along with 47 other senators. Strike one.

S.2590
Title: A bill to require full disclosure of all entities and organizations receiving Federal funds.
Sponsor: Sen Coburn, Tom [OK] (introduced 4/6/2006) Cosponsors (47)
Related Bills: S.CON.RES.114
Latest Major Action: Became Public Law No: 109-282 [GPO: Text, PDF]
Senate Reports: 109-329 COSPONSORS(47), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]: (Sort: by date)


Sen Alexander, Lamar [TN] - 7/25/2006
Sen Allen, George [VA] - 7/17/2006
Sen Baucus, Max [MT] - 9/6/2006
Sen Bayh, Evan [IN] - 7/19/2006
Sen Bingaman, Jeff [NM] - 9/5/2006
Sen Boxer, Barbara [CA] - 7/31/2006
Sen Brownback, Sam [KS] - 9/6/2006
Sen Burr, Richard [NC] - 9/13/2006
Sen Cantwell, Maria [WA] - 9/7/2006
Sen Carper, Thomas R. [DE] - 4/6/2006
Sen Chambliss, Saxby [GA] - 8/2/2006
Sen Clinton, Hillary Rodham [NY] - 7/18/2006
Sen Coleman, Norm [MN] - 7/25/2006
Sen Collins, Susan M. [ME] - 7/24/2006
Sen Cornyn, John [TX] - 7/18/2006
Sen Craig, Larry E. [ID] - 9/7/2006
Sen DeMint, Jim [SC] - 7/12/2006
Sen DeWine, Mike [OH] - 8/1/2006
Sen Dodd, Christopher J. [CT] - 9/5/2006
Sen Dole, Elizabeth [NC] - 9/7/2006
Sen Durbin, Richard [IL] - 7/27/2006
Sen Enzi, Michael B. [WY] - 9/6/2006
Sen Feingold, Russell D. [WI] - 9/5/2006
Sen Frist, William H. [TN] - 7/24/2006
Sen Grassley, Chuck [IA] - 9/13/2006
Sen Hagel, Chuck [NE] - 9/5/2006
Sen Isakson, Johnny [GA] - 7/17/2006
Sen Kerry, John F. [MA] - 7/25/2006
Sen Kyl, Jon [AZ] - 9/13/2006
Sen Landrieu, Mary L. [LA] - 8/1/2006
Sen Lieberman, Joseph I. [CT] - 7/25/2006
Sen McCain, John [AZ] - 4/6/2006
Sen McConnell, Mitch [KY] - 7/31/2006
Sen Menendez, Robert [NJ] - 9/5/2006
Sen Nelson, Bill [FL] - 9/7/2006
Sen Obama, Barack [IL] - 4/6/2006
Sen Reid, Harry [NV] - 7/26/2006
Sen Salazar, Ken [CO] - 9/6/2006
Sen Santorum, Rick [PA] - 6/21/2006
Sen Sessions, Jeff [AL] - 7/28/2006
Sen Snowe, Olympia J. [ME] - 8/3/2006
Sen Sununu, John E. [NH] - 7/13/2006
Sen Talent, Jim [MO] - 9/5/2006
Sen Thomas, Craig [WY] - 9/6/2006
Sen Thune, John [SD] - 7/28/2006
Sen Vitter, David [LA] - 8/2/2006
Sen Voinovich, George V. [OH] - 7/31/2006


And. . .

S.3077
Title: A bill to strengthen transparency and accountability in Federal spending.
Sponsor: Sen Obama, Barack [IL] (introduced 6/3/2008) Cosponsors (3)
Related Bills: H.R.6411
Latest Major Action: 6/3/2008 Referred to Senate committee. Status: Read twice and referred to the Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs. COSPONSORS(3), ALPHABETICAL [followed by Cosponsors withdrawn]: (Sort: by date)


Sen Carper, Thomas R. [DE] - 6/3/2008
Sen Coburn, Tom [OK] - 6/3/2008
Sen McCain, John [AZ] - 6/3/2008

This was a good bill, but really all it did was improve data quality and reporting. Now that is important to computer geeks, but it did not do much to make this more transparent. It just made it more accurate and easier to read. The link below contains the specifics.

Search Results - THOMAS (Library of Congress)

Strike two.


And In regards to the Lugar bill. . . .

They didn't re-invent the bill, all Lugar did was expand on his bill from 1991 to use funds not spent on areas outside of the former Soviet Union, with Obamas assistance.

Letter from US Senators Lugar and Obama to Secretary Rice

Cooperative Threat Reduction Expansion Act

Strike three.


I'm getting tired now, so I'll stop. BUT. . .you get the point.

Ok, I couldn't leave this alone.


Are you kidding me???!!!

Ever hear of Castro? (1953-2008)
Ever hear of Pinochet? (1973 to 1990)

I think the Kurds would argue that last one.

Yes, I can see what a big difference it is between running for the nomination for president and running for president. However, those were Huckabee's words, not mine, so I guess he was the one dicing words


Sorry, I didn't want to quote more than I needed to.

Here it is, in his own words:

He graduated from law school in 1991. And your attempted correction doesn't address what I wrote, which has nothing to do with when he became a public official, but what he was doing while she was still in college, getting married and being a sportscaster. I'm not "kinda right," I'm exactly right on this one, as on the others.



[

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

No, your words were:

Mr. Minister, Mr. Christian, Mr. Chuckabee last night claimed that Sarah Palin got more votes running for mayor of Wasilla than Joe Biden did running for president. That would be a lie.

He might have been dicing words, but doesn't make what you wrote anymore correct.



Still not clear on the timeline. "Finally" is kinda vague. But we'll check that one out more.





Your right it was 1991. This was the timeline I was looking at and it's a little vague:

The Life of Barack Obama | View timeline

But you are still only "kinda" right. He was a community organizer for Developing Communities while she was in college, etc. However, in 1992 he worked for Project Vote. Is that not considered a community organizer? She was a public official 4yrs before he became one in 1996. How does that make you exactly right? Just curious?

I am not "kinda right," I'm exactly right. You're changing the question, which was NOT when they each became public officials, but what he was doing while she was going through six colleges in five years, getting married, and being the sportsperson.

Change the question, of course you change the answer.

Your first sentence confirms I'm right. So thanks for that.

If you want to ask a different question, we can discuss the answer to that.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

Huh? Was he not a community organizer while she was a public official? You brought it up.

And please address Sen Lieberman's comments and how that is a lie?

Inquiring minds want to know!

Your "inquiring mind" seems unable to understand or accept the answer that's been given to you twice already. I can't imagine that the third time would be the charm.

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Reading is Fundamental.

Hmmmm. . .I must be blind then. Please show me your quote where you addressed Senator Lieberman's statement.

Nice to see you can only attack me personally and not support what you posted.

Where did I ever say anything about Sen. Lieberman? Perhaps you are blind, if you think (1) I attacked you personally or (2) I didn't support what I posted. Nice try on the pre-emptive attack. Very McCainesque of you.

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Reading is Fundamental.

No. Senator Obama was a community organizer 1985-1988
Gov. Palin was a member of the city council, 1992-2002. She was then a mayor 1996-2002

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Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

This is what I asked you:

and this is your response:

But I yet I find no answer addressing Lieberman's comments and how that is a lie.

Yes, while she was a council member in 1992 Sen Obama worked for Project Vote. Is that not a community organizer? What exactly did he do there?

Oh yeah, this is where you brought it up. . .



Edited to add: Well Holy Crap! That wasn't you! No wonder we're all confused! Do youhave anything to say about that one anyway?

I guess you'll have to stay confused, then, since it was never my intent to comment on Lieberman since you can clearly see that I never accused Lieberman of anything. Unless I'm the blind one???

Aha, I see your problem. You can't tell the difference between two different posters. So sorry.

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Reading is Fundamental.

We're not all confused. And no, I don't. I'll let the poster speak for herself.

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Reading is Fundamental.

Project Vote was a voter registration drive with a staff of 10 and 700 volunteers that achieved its goal of registering 150,000 of 400,000 voters. Sen Obama was a director.
During the time frame 1992-1996, he was a lecturer at the USC Law School.

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l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

I guess we'll have to wait for kokoisland to defend that one.

Ahhh. . .thank you.

Uhmm...maybe you could follow the link I provided in my orginial post which leads too:

"Sen. Joe Lieberman, the former Democrat (now Independent) who supports McCain, accused Obama of not reaching out to the other side:

Lieberman: In the Senate, during the three-and-a-half years that Senator Obama has been a member, he has not reached across party lines to get accomplish anything significant. ...

We don't know what Lieberman considers "significant." But Obama has co-sponsored bills with members of the other party, some of which have been noteworthy. Obama and Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana, for instance, teamed up on an initiative to lock down and secure both nuclear and conventional weapons worldwide, such as the shoulder-fired, anti-aircraft missiles that have been proliferating in recent years. According to a report on the bill by the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, the legislation "enhances: (1) U.S. cooperation with foreign governments to destroy conventional weapons stockpiles around the world; and (2) the United States' ability to provide assistance to foreign governments aimed at helping them detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction." Lugar hasn't objected to Obama's characterization of their partnership or the bill, which became law in 2007, in his ads.

Another example: Obama worked with Sen. Tom Coburn, an Oklahoma Republican, to write the Federal Funding Accountability and Transparency Act of 2006, which created a searchable database the public can use to look up details on federal grants and contracts. (McCain was also among the original co-sponsors of that bill, so Lieberman may have been tarring his own candidate when he disparaged Obama's legislative accomplishments). Obama and Coburn also got together on a bill to prohibit the Department of Homeland Security from issuing open-ended, no-bid contracts for emergency response activities after abuses were found in post-Katrina contracting."

I guess it depends on your definition of "significant".

I don't think signing on with 48 of the 50 other Senators is noteworthy. That was S.2590

S.3077 was just a clarification to S.2590 (Btw McCain was a co-sponsor on this one).

S. 2026 was just a simple expansion of Lugar's 1991 bill to include funds not spent on areas outside of the former Soviet Union.

I'm not sure what your 48 out of 50 other senators comment is about. There are 100 senators.

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Reading is Fundamental.

Duh! You have to excuse me. I'm a little more than sleep deprived today. I still don't think it's "significant".