Nah, go right ahead and lump me with the F-off people. I own it.

Oh and where does it say Divine Mercy Chaplet....on your SIGNS??
I'm sure you are waving them SILENTLY while you are praying SILENTLY.....right?

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Good for you, KTS.

Freedom of expression (especially when peacefully executed) is a great thing - it's what we all want, isn't it?
I would think that open-minded people would be of the mindset that you are well within your rights as a citizen to express your opinion, and would respect your right to do so.

Otherwise, we would be advocating for censorship, would we not???

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

I'm not sure what the purpose of this thread is, but, can I just say that I don't appreciate the protestors that carry signs of aborted fetuses. They are protesting in public places where everyone, including CHILDREN, the most innocent of us all, can go as well.

I understand both sides of the issue and I can see both sides. I understand the whole praying and protesting, really. But, why do some of these people carry these signs with such gruesome pictures??? I've seen this on the corner of a major intersection here, and I don't appreciate it one bit.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

How would you feel if you had some sort of medical condition that required a controversial treatment, and you chose that controversial treatment based on what you felt was best for everyone involved. Every time you went to the clinic to receive this controversial treatment, there was a religious group on the sidewalk, praying, possibly holding signs, even saying "bless you child"--but you knew these people were against the procedure and thought it was a mortal sin. These people belonged to, oh let's pick any religion, The Church of Yah-Yah Sisterhood--and have publicly came out and stated that until there are no more people receiving this treatment--that is a sin--they will continue to meet outside the clinic and pray for those people. It's intimidation at it's purest form. And if you have never experienced intimidation, then you truly are a very fortunate person.

People gathered at Central High School in Little Rock, AR. many years ago. They were expressing their opinion about 9 young black children being integrated into the all-white school. I'm sure some of them were even praying too.....

Just because YOU can express your opinion, doesn't always mean you should.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Sorry, this was a continuation of this locked thread
http://www.mycoupons.com/boards/elec...something.html

Sorry for any confusion!

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I more than agree with this statement, and I do understand your posted point of view.

It's your opinion that this is an opinion that should not be expressed.

It's Kathy's opinion (and many others') that it NEEDS to be expressed.

And it's because we live in America that both abortions and the right to protest abortions are protected.

If a pro-life person feels strongly, and this is the only way they can make their case, then it must be accepted, like it or not.

Pro-choice persons are free to abort babies, whether pro-lifers like it or not. To a pro-lifer, it is the only action against killing of innocent human life that they can peacefully take.

And if the sign carrying didn't create some positive effect (saving lives), I'm certain that, after all this time, the activity would have been, well, aborted...

I support every person's right to hold signs protesting something that they don't believe in. I would support it if they were in Washington DC protesting something, and I support it for this cause.

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

We don't have those signs however I see both sides of the nasty sign issue. This is where the truth hurts slogan comes into play. It is what happens with an abortion. But the signs are very graphic. They have changed some peoples minds, there is documentation, but they also turn a lot of people off to the anti-abortion movement. But truly we only have upbeat messages and we only have signage on the annual Life Chain Sunday in October.

The DIvine Mercy Chaplet is a prayer prayed on the Rosary beads. You can google it if you want to. It's a wonderful prayer.

I think a more accurate statement would be I think there are better ways to express your opinion. I do not have an issue w/ expressing an opinion I disagree with. I fully support each and every person's right to express their opinion.
Again--the people who showed up at Central High School were "just" expressing their opinion that they didn't want black students. Were they right in how they did it? I'm thinking not. Were they effective in their protest? Obviously not. Did they intimidate and scare the crap out of 9 innocent black teens? Oh Yeah!
I would still like the answers to the questions I posed. How would you feel? Have you ever experienced intimidation? What choice have you ever had to make where people villified and basically damned you to Hell because of the decision? I sincerely am asking.
Just like it's real easy to say to an abused wife "well, just leave"--it's really easy to say you understand what a woman goes through when she chooses an abortion. As someone who has intimate knowledg of both---I'm of the opinion that sometimes you really don't know until you've walked a mile in those shoes. Just my opinion.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Kathy
Why do you have to put people down into Libs/bad, conservatives/good? That sentence was not needed in the post.

It isn't needed. I don't read anyone saying that the way you post your posts is because you are a conservative. The twisted way you convolute and change the subject isn't because you are Republican

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GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Ya know, here's the thing I've always wondered about all these pro-life folks...how many adopted children do they have? I mean, if you're standing outside a woman's clinic assuming that every woman who goes in there is having an abortion, instead of berating them for doing what they think is right for themselves, why not offer to pay for the woman's medical care and then adopt the child yourself? Or, OK, how about just "adopting" a woman who's pregnant and providing financial support to her for the next 18 years if she doesn't have an abortion? I would think that the offer of long term support would cause a lot of overwhelmed women to re-think their choice. I also can't think of a much more Christian act from people who claim to be so concerned with WWJD.

So, I ask all of you pro-life folks on this board...how many abortions have you prevented by putting your money where your mouth is?

What's that you say?????


That's what I thought.

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bite me and get a brain!

Your sig line is hilarious I remember that poster, wasn't she about keeping her white man and the white race pure or some horse pucky like that?...I forgotten all about it.

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GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Thankfully, the people at Central High School's mob mentality would be met with a very different collective response in this day and age. However, it is my understanding that the angry group that you are referring to was not even nearly a peaceful demonstration.

I have not been in your shoes, and I do realize that your point-of-view is altogether different than that of a peaceful abortion clinic demonstrator. I have never been in your situation, and it stinks that you ever were.

I have absolutely experienced intimidation. In some cases I stuck to my guns. In others, I slinked away, hopefully unnoticed.

But I assume you have never EVER been pro-life. You have never walked in the shoes of someone who feels powerless to change something that they feel is inherently wrong. The very people who you feel have no right to do what they're doing are actually doing something that they feel is the most compassionate action they can take.

I know you believe you made the best decision for your situation. I also know that KTS, and people who picket these places also believe they are making the very best decision for theirs. There doesn't seem to be any way around it. Can you think of a better, more effective way to actively work for change than what they're doing? Don't say "Write to their politicians..." - I used to work at the state capitol. I know what happens to these types of letters...I was the one shredding them!

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

What an obnoxious, ignorant post.

I am not allowed to become a foster parent because I don't have enough bedrooms in my house. I can't afford a 4 bedroom, and you need to equip a new baby or a foster child with their own room and their own closet. You do have to become a foster parent in my state before you can adopt a child that is in the state's custody (children abandoned by their parents, or taken from abusive parents' homes).

My brother has 3 foster children and my sister has one. And I don't even think that means that they prevented abortions.

But I routinely give money, new diapers, and new baby clothing to the town showers that are held bi-annually so that unmarried or low-income women can have nice things that other women just take for granted.

I also clip baby coupons and give them to a friend who is struggling to make ends meet with her unplanned baby.

I also watch this baby for her whenever I can...for free!!! Can you imagine!!??

Uh-oh, I don't think you were expecting this kind of response...

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

No, I have not adopted a child. I am too old now! lol Nor have I ever berated anyone for having an abortion. I have volunteered for Birthright for many, many years and have been on the board of the local right to life group which does fundraising for pregnancy centers, etc... I may not have prevented any abortions but I'm doing the best that I can. One of my good friends, also on the board, is adopting. I know quite a few people in my town that have adopted. All from out of the country. There really aren't that many babies to adopt here, probably because of abortion availability. ANd the child my friend adopted tested HIV positive at birth and for awhile afterwards so a possible medical condition does not necessarily stand in the way of adoption. Just in case you decide to bring that up.
I find it very presumptious of you to assume that none of the pro-lifers on this board has done anything...

You go girl!!!!!!!!!! Maybe some of this folks don't realize what goes on with us pro-lifers because we aren't out their flaunting it!!!

Please ignore my posts since I seem to upset you so much. Also, please no more private messages insulting me. I dont' appreciate that one bit.

She posted that way because she assumed that pro-life people do nothing to actually help provide pregnant women with much-needed help. She didn't know it would come back at her within minutes! A little awkward?

Umm - next question, Nancymh? This time...a little forethought might serve you well

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

Actually, that's exactly the kind of response I was expecting. You've done nothing to actually help prevent an abortion. Spewing rhetoric is not an action.

While I truly commend your brother and sister for their good works, I'm not talking about children who are already here. Nor was I asking what good works your relatives have done. I was asking , specifically, the people in this thread what they have done to prevent an abortion.

Givng money and diapers, clipping coupons and babysitting for children who are already here is not preventing abortions.

It's just as I thought, you and Kathy, the loudest pro-lifers on this board, talk a big game but actually do nothing that counts.

Not enough bedrooms, too old, blah, blah, blah. If this was actually an issue that had great importance to you, you'd have less excuses and more results.

As I thought though, you both bring nothing to the table.

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bite me and get a brain!

Oh brother. Well devinsmom, I guess we will have to start looking for teenagers making out in a car and tapping on their windows. I'm not sure if that would make her happy though because then we would be intruding on their privacy.....You just can't win with some people. In the meantime keep up the good works devinsmon! You are a woman of action who practices what she preaches!! Good job!!

Seriously. You can't possibly be that obtuse.

Oh, wait.........

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bite me and get a brain!

I have seen Catholics protest an abortion clinic. There is one by our local McDonalds. They, mostly nuns, stand outside, very far away from the clinic (picture a strip mall and they are on the other side of the parking lot on the sidewalk by the street) praying the Rosary. The only reason I can honestly say I even notice them is because I am Catholic and heard that they go pray there every Tuesday. I doubt that anybody going to have an abortion would even notice them. With that being said, I think that everyone has a right to protest whatever they want. Protests must be lawful, but just because you don't agree with them, doesn't mean the protesters have any less of a right to protest.

I too, regularly donate to Guadalupe House. It's a home for teen mom's. Seems to be a lot of asumptions being made today around here.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

That is simply not an accurate statement. There are many children here in the US that are in foster care and need a home. I suspect (and I am sure your good friend can confirm) that the legal red tape is what makes it a little harder to legally adopt a child, but there are certainly many children available - various ages and backgrounds - in the US.

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@@@
l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

Seriously. . .what are you getting at? What exactly can they do to prevent somebody else from choosing to have an abortion?

This is what you posted:

What makes you think pro-life supporters have unlimited personal funds that they might be able to do that? They do what they can.

And yes, actually the Catholic Community Services in my county, will in fact pay for medical care for a woman who chooses not to have an abortion. There was a woman who spoke at Mass once. She thought she wanted an abortion, but after speaking with some of the nuns, decided against it. CCS helped her with her medical and housing, along with Guadalupe House providing baby supplies.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

It's not quite that simple. Many foster kids are not available for adoption. Their parents still have parental rights. I'm not saying that many aren't available. . .I don't know the exact numbers. However, many in the foster care system are not up for adoption. It is another reason people go out of the country to adopt. It is less likely that a birth parent will come back and claim some kind of parental rights.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I never stated that it was "that simple". I was responding to the notion that there are no children available for adoption here in the US because of abortion. I qualified my comment with my statement that there is legal red tape.
That said I'll cite the most recent stat I can find:
Adoption Statistics: Foster Care 1999

That is still a lot of children that are in need of a home. And even if one cannot adopt, one can still be foster parents and care for the children in the meantime.

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@@@
l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

Ok. I'm glad you found the numbers. I just thought that your first post implied that foster kids are up for adoption, and that in most cases, they are not.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I am pro-life, for MYSELF. I am pro-choice and I choose life....FOR ME. I really had a very hard time with this issue for a long time. I have done reports on the subject in college, gotten oodles of information, pamphlets, brochures, all of that. I just find the whole thing barbaric. But, that is MY opinion. I am also the one who about puked when my cat's doctor told me that if she happened to get out and get pregnant before I got her spayed, he could do an abortion when he spayed her. I kept her butt locked in the house for 2 weeks straight!!! But, again, MY OPINION, MY SITUATION. I do understand the feeling of helplessness and short of having the gov't in everyone's bed, there is only so much I can do to prevent unwanted pregnancies. I realize that, and I instead turn my energy to helping those that need help......teen mothers, single mothers, whoever is in the situation. I can only control my own actions. As I have stated before, I would like to see some FREE birth control for ALL.

I would say write a letter, but, don't stop there.....sign a petition at your church or with your friends or whatever. GRASS ROOTS!!!! It may never change a thing, but, at least you are doing something positive. I just don't see what the picketing with those signs does??? BTW, where I saw the signs, it was a MAJOR intersection, and there isn't even an abortion clinic near there. For that matter, when I looked up abortion in our phone book, the closest one listed was about 2 hours away

FWIW, I have a couple nephews that got their g'friends pregnant ( I know, it takes 2 to tango,but you get the idea). Both VERY young. The one girl contemplated abortion and her BF was happy for her to go that route. I told her that should she decide to go thru with the pregnancy, I would help out however I could, and that is exactly what I do. Do I pay her rent, food, medical....no, I don't, but, I help how I can.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Well-stated.



Letters and petitions are fine. I think it's a much more passive, easier road than putting your face out there and giving up your time to pray and walk with the demonstrators, but I don't knock it. I've done the letters and have signed many petitions regarding my pro-life stance. I haven't yet received a personal response (a letter that wasn't a form letter response generated with a fake signature), but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing.

I actually have NOT petitioned, but I have a great deal of respect for the rights of those who do.

Nancymh is coming down on people who aren't tapping the shoulders of the girls who are trying to have access to the clinics. According to her, we should build additions onto our houses, and offer to take their babies.

In the fantasy world of Nancymh, I guess the pregnant girl says "YES!! Thanks! Now I'll see this pregnancy through!" However, IRL, pro-lifer's options are more limited...

Not to mention that I think it would be a real violation of a person's right to privacy for the girl seeking the abortion to be approached this way. Correct me if I'm wrong. Does anyone see this as a viable option? Do you think the clients of these abortion clinics should be approached with offers to take their babies? Would that make the difference???

Hypocritically, she accuses pro-lifers of not doing enough...but blasts what they try to do...hmmmm....

Allinaugust, I don't always understand the placement of the signs, either. I still respect any peaceful demonstrator's right to hold a sign and protest. I think it's awesome when people like you help someone by just having a talk, and helping however possible. That truly made a difference.

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

The KKK now conducts what they call "peaceful" demonstrations and marches.....and so does that group that was showing up at soldiers funerals...they now stand quietly and wait for the other side to engage. Both of those organizatoin have religious overtones/undertones also.

Hmmm, interesting.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

That is their constitutional right and they are free to exercise it. I don't agree with what they have to say but doesn't make it anyless their right to protest lawfully.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Here's the thing, what a pro-lifer does or does not do to prevent abortions has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that we feel abortion is wrong. We see as taking a life. I see it the same way as I see these women who kill their babies at birth. Same thing to me. Why would the young women that do this see it as any different than an abortion? THeir whole lives they've been told it's ok to kill babies.

What I do, or don't do won't change the fact that I see it as wrong.

Do any of the pro-abortion people think it's murder if the baby happens to be out of the womb before the woman chooses to take the life of her child?? If so, are you willing to do something to help her if she decides not to??

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Melissa

You don't have to tell me. I'd be the first one to defend anyone's right to protest....

But, if it walks like a duck, talks like a duck....

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

Yes, but what you stated before could also be applied to protests led by Martin Luther King Jr. . . .non-violent civil protest with religious affiliation.

I'm just saying, just because you don't agree with what the protesters have to say, doesn't somehow make them inherently bad. We can all agree on some things, but abortion is a decisive issue. . .people aren't going to agree. Those that are Pro-Choice will compare it to the things you lissted (kkk protests, etc) but those that are Pro-Life will liken it more to the civil rights protests of Martin Luther King Jr.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

See, here's a big sticking point in this issue: When does an embryo become a baby? You, I'm assuming, like the majority of anti-abortion advocates feel like it's at the moment of conception. I, and many others, feel as if it's when the embryo could, in theory, survive outside the womb. So, going on those assumptions--yes, it's murder if the woman chooses to carry the embryo to term, and then kill it after giving birth? What's the difference you may ask? Because at the moment that fetus is compatible with life outside the womb, it became a child.
FWIW--I was raised being told that abortion was wrong. Once I hit my adult years, I researched and made my own decision. I believed then that it should be the choice of the person faced with the problem. Who am I to tell a woman "you have to carry to term--and then if you don't want it you can give it up, but until that time--you don't have any other choice".
As to your question: unequivocally, resoundingly YES, I would do whatever I could to assist a girl or woman who was confused as to what to do. I would take them into my home--give them all the information and assistance I could to help them make the right decision for themselves. I would, if applicable, find them mental health counseling. I would take them to the doctor. Fortunately, we have a phenomenal "home" here that takes in young, unwed mothers who decide to carry to term and either keep the baby or give it up for adoption. This home teaches basic parenting skills to the girls that need it. They assist the girls in getting their HS diploma/GED, the provide housing and financial assistance when the girl leaves. They provide mental and physical health assistance when needed.

I get the impression that some anti-abortion advocates seem to believe that Pro-Choice people are advocates of every woman having an abortion. That is simply not the case! When my 17 y/o niece turned up pregnant--I asked her what she wanted to do. I told her that she had several options and I would help her with whatever she decided. She knew I'd had an abortion--so, she asked about that. I explained to her the situation that I had been in and told her that my situation were world's different (and they were). I told her that in her situation she had a very good support network, and frankly I didn't think she would be emotionally stable enough to live with the decision to have an abortion (she suffered from severe depression prior to getting pregnant--along with some other things that had happened in her life). I actually, whether you believe it or not, counseled her to NOT consider abortion. And I also explained to her that should she decide to carry to term, there would be no way that her mother, her other Aunt, or her Nanny (my mom) would allow the child to be placed for adoption outside the family (one of us would have adopted the baby). She made the decision to carry to term--had a beautiful boy, who will be 7 this May. I don't advocate abortion, I never have. What I do advocate is all women having the right to choose.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I totally understand what you are saying Marilyn. I love how you handled your niece, and I'm sure she is grateful beyond words for the support.

I know that you and I understand that after the baby takes it's first breath, it is absolutely a baby, but these young women do not understand that. They have a completely different perspective. To them, before or after birth, what is the difference. I feel this attitude is due to the fact that life has been devalued by our attitude towards abortion.

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Melissa

You are confusing pro-abortion with pro-choice. Totally different things. One can be pro-choice without being pro-abortion.

I don't want somebody else telling me what I can or cannot do to my own body. I want the right to make that CHOICE for myself or my daughters for themselves.

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But once you are pregnant it is not just your body from my perspective.

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Melissa

marilynk, does this mean that you don't believe in third trimester abortions? My sister, a NICU nurse, sees babies that are born prematurely and are not on ventilators quite frequently even after 30 weeks in utero. So babies who are more developed such as these, could, in theory, survive outside the womb.

Are you against late-term abortions?

I am honestly interested on your stand on this.

Thanks.

D

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

I agree that life has been and is constantly being devalued. I disagree that it's because of the attitude on abortion. I believe that attitudes on abortions play only a very minor role.

I think we're seeing too many people who believes the world owes them something--a sense of entitlement--and these people don't really give a damn about their fellow man. The attitude is too much of "how does it benefit ME" as opposed to "how can I make a difference". The values that I was, and I am assuming you were taught, as a child at home, at school and at church--aren't being taught now! And unfortunately, this lack of teaching happens long before a girl can even fathom liking boys, much less getting pregnant by one, KWIM?
If it's any consolation--I think that no one under the age of 18 should be allowed to have an abortion without parental consent, I believe that abortion after about 5-6 months should only be done if the mother's life is in danger, or the fetus is determined to have such a birth defect that their compatibility w/ life is questionable (major birth defects--not developmental defects like Down's syndrome). If a woman can't make up her mind what she wants to do prior to the middle/end of the second trimester--then she's got bigger issues than just being pregnant, KWIM?

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

absolutely against late term abortions. (apparently we were posting at the same time)--Always have been. Like I said, any woman who can't figure out what she wants to do by the middle/end of the second trimester forfeits her right to choose, because at that point--the fetus could survive without her.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

This is where I have a problem. To me you just can not look the other way when it comes to abortion. Saying that you are willing to accept that this should be a choice does not take away the fact of what the choice is (abortion).
Just like when people in the South looked the other way in regards to slavery. Not everyone in the South had slaves but most would not speak out against what was morally wrong.



"Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted, the indifference of those who should have known better, the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph." Haile Selassie

I'm not saying slavery was morally right---but you do realize that the "Yankees" didn't fight for freeing the slaves, they fought for economic dominance. The Yanks saw that the South was becoming an economic power, and they (the Yankees) felt that the Southerners had an upper hand due to the slavery. Freeing the slaves was just a byproduct of the Yankees self-serving intentions. Oh, and the folks up North gave no thought as to how the slaves would fare once they were freed, they gave no preparation for the huge changes that they set in motion.

So, while I'm sure you didn't realize it--you gave even more credence to a Pro-Choicer's argument.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

You can not protest on a military base. Not sure if you can be right outside the gates or not.....also, if you want an abortion, you have to pay for that one yourself (unless your life is in danger). How is that for irony??? The very people defending OUR freedoms, don't have as much freedom as we have.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I was not talking about the Civil War. The issue of slavery had very little to do with that War. I was talking about the moral issue at the core of slavery. And the fact that people did not agree with it or owned slaves themselves they looked the other way.
The same could be said of the fact of segreation. People stood by while blacks were treated morally wrong. They might not have condoned what was going on but by accepting it (by not speaking out, looking the other way) they let the "evil" continue.

"Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted, the indifference of those who should have known better, the silence of the voice of justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph." Haile Selassie

I think the young girls we hear about killing their babies at birth are scared and out of options, for whatever reason. Going off on a bit of a tangent here, but, I think that is why instead of these hard core Right wingers ripping Bristol Palin for her pre-marital sex, how about a little less of that, I really do think she gets that......and let's have a little more money where your dam mouth is....supporting (emotionally,financially, whatever) someone who chooses to continue their pregnancy. Ok, now back to what I was trying to say before.....Yes, personally, I see it as taking a life. BUT, that is MY opinion, and we all differ on when life starts. Furthermore, it is LEGAL to do so, and who am I to make a moral judgement for another person??? I'm not a God, and neither is anyone else here.

I believe in prevention of pregnancy rather than trying to deal with it AFTER the fact. I've talked extensively with my kids, and they know the deal. They also know that if they do wind up in an unwanted pregnancy situation, worse things have happened then bringing a new life into the world. I never want my children to be so fearful of their parents that they would hide something like this, and try to bear this burden alone. I'd be glad to pay for a sterilization for someone that wanted it. That's how I would help her. I'm tired of debating the is it right or wrong issue. I worry about my own back yard, and hopefully influence those I come into contact with,in a positive way.

OK, I'm exhausted....need a break.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Yes, that is ME!!!

You know, in some states it's legal to gamble. But, some people feel it's morally wrong to do so, so they don't partake in it. That's their option. Just because it's legal, doesn't mean it's right FOR YOU. If that's the case, don't do it.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

This is true. There are certainly laws about protesting in place. I believe you can protest right outside the gates. I live very near Ft. Lewis and McChord. Also there are laws about how close abortion protesters can be to the entrance to an abortion clinic. I guess I'm fine with all of that. Does anybody know what they decided about the group that was protesting at soldiers' funerals? I'm just wondering if they determined they had to stay out of the cementary or what.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I haven't posted much in here, but just thought I would add just a bit. My sister's called me many times after miscarrying, usually by 8 or 9 weeks, crying and so sad. She's doing that because she's lost her "baby", I don't know if this same thing happens when a woman is pro choice, I don't know if it would make them sad, because after all, it's not a baby, right? Maybe someone who's experienced a miscarriage and is prochoice can clarify? I hope this does not come off as callous or hurtful to anyone, I'm just hoping for better understanding.
I posted back in may that my little boy came 9 weeks early, he was born at 31 weeks. I am amazed that it is still legal to abort at that gestation(sp?) So many 30+ weekers survive at (I think it was) 90% rates. And amazingly the babies born as early as 23 weeks survive. There was a 26 weeker next to my son in the NICU who was just a fighter, and I can't imagine that it makes a difference on whether the mom wants the baby or not, I've seen what they look like and how hard they fight and it doesn't matter if it's in the womb or not. Also to the poster who was asking what prolifers have done to prevent abortions. I would in a heartbeat put up the $10,000 for the adoption legal fees as well as paying for the medical care for anyone considering abortion vs. adoption. However, that's not going to make a difference to someone going in for an abortion. There are THOUSANDS if not more people just waiting for the chance to do that, and it obviously hasn't made a difference. One questions though, why does Planned Parenthood not give information about adoption out? At least present it as an alternative?

Here's an interesting article I found:

Obama Facing Attacks From All Sides Over Abortion Record - August 18, 2008 - The New York Sun

The legislation apparently was introduced by a nurse that witnessed a botched abortion where the baby was still alive and then left to die.

There was a case here in Washington where a similar thing happened. The baby was still alive and the doctor smothered it. He was investigated and I believe lost his liscence (maybe prosecuted. . .I really don't remember.)

I think whether you are Pro Choice or Pro Life, we can all probably agree that if the baby is still alive then there is an obligation to try and save it. I have a problem with Obama not voting to support that.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

There are plenty of homes that girls can go to when they're pregnant that take care of them while they're pregnant and help them decide whether to keep their baby or whether adoption is the answer. Here's one not far from me and it's been around for many years. If you'll 'google', you'll find them all over the United States and they are supported mainly by Christians thru their donations. So before some of you blast people for not taking children/pregnant girls into their homes, many give in order for these girls to have a good place to go and get the help they need and get their lives back on track.


LIBERTY GODPARENT FOUNDATION
Liberty Godparent Home
ADDRESS:
Liberty Godparent Home
P. O. Box 4199
Lynchburg, VA 24502

TELEPHONES:
Office 8:00 a.m. - 4:30 p.m. (804) 845-3466
Help Line 24 Hours (800) 542-4453
A Help Line Counselor is available 4:30 p.m. - 8:00 a.m.

Executive Director, Ryan Rush
E Mail - lifekeeper@godparent.org
Fax: (804) 845-3486

HOURS WHEN PREGNANT CLIENTS AND THEIR FAMILILES MAY CONTACT: 800 number is staffed 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.

BRIIEF PURPOSE STATEMENT: The Liberty Godparent Home is a Christian, residential maternity home providing housing, education, medical care, and counseling for single, pregnant young women who either parent their child or place their child for adoption.

WHO IS ELIGIBLE FOR SERVICES: Our program is for young women ages 12 through 2 1. A client MUST be an intake by the 20th week of pregnancy.

FEES: There are no fees for education, counseling, room and board, and classes. Arrangements must be made for the medical portion of the program through the Admissions Coordinator at LGH.

WHO FUNDS THE PROGRAM: Liberty Godparent Home is a ministry of the Liberty Godparent Foundation and is completely funded by churches, businesses, and individual friends of the ministry.

SERVICES PROVIDED: Please see "Purpose Statement" above. We also network with over 1,200 referrals all over the United States and Canada. If we cannot help a caller with our program, we will refer her to another pro-life facility in her area for assistance.