The SNL spoof with "Hillary" and "Sarah" has really had me thinking...... as has the O'R piece on Michelle Obama tonight.

Isn't it interesting to consider those three women, where they are, and how they got where they got?

For those who didn't see SNL, Hillary and Sarah were appearing jointly at a podium, and "Hillary" made a comment along the lines of how she'd scratched and clawed her way into 'upper level politics' and ....I can't recall exactly how things were said, but the picture painted was that Hillary had pretty much killed herself to secure a place on the presidential ticket and Palin just suddenly *found* herself there and from what I'm seeing, wasn't sitting around in Alaska with her fingers crossed and trying to position herself to become one of the highest-positioned women in the world.

In some ways, it almost seems unfair because obviously, Hillary has wanted this bad, and wanted it for a long time, and has spent a tremendous amount of her life trying to attain/obtain it.

And on the flipside... it's the very simplicity of Sarah Palin, the fact that she's just done what she perceived to be the right thing as she's worked to positively impact *home* - first Wasilla, then Alaska, well.... she didn't have Presidential ambitions. She just had "fix it" ambitions. She apparently likes to fix broken and problematic bureaucracies and has found a lot of satisfaction in that. I think the best words I've heard to describe her came from her own lips in the Gibson interview: She said she is just wired not to blink. Wired. I think that's what it comes down to for me. Some of us are just *wired* to be decisive.

With Hillary - and I realize the Democrats here may not see things the same way I do - for a number of years she has had big political ambitions, and so it's hard for me to look at her moves without cynicism. I always presume that with anything she does, at least in part she's 'positioning' because it's done from a position of political savvy and awareness and that for many years - even her years as a political wife than a politician in her own right - she's been aware of image maintanance.

In other words, I don't know where the 'real Hillary' stops and 'candidate Hillary" takes over.

With Palin, because we've got footage of her from very recently - and yet before she had any DC aspirations - I feel like the footage I see of her is really *her*.

And I'd say the same is true for Michelle Obama. I get the feeling that she, too, is *wired* to just 'go for it' without a lot of politicking behind the scenes. I do think she's had involvement in politics, as had Palin (lobbying for earmarks, etc).... but I don't think those actions, either by MO or SP, were actions designed to help further their careers. I think they just saw some things that needed done, knew they had the sway and the 'wiring' to make things happen.... and inserted themselves into situations where they could be impactive.

I realize their *positions* are much different, those of Sarah Palin and Michele Obama. Michelle is a wife and not running... Palin is a VP and is very much running.

But still, it's intersting to ponder that neither of those women has spent the better part of their lifetimes 'scratching and clawing' to land in power.... and yet the lives they've lived as they simply did what they do are going to land them in a 'zone' that Hillary busted her tail to make her own.

Unsucessfully.

It's just.... interestng.

If you think Hillary has no power you are mistaken. And, If you truly believe that Palin has done no scratching or clawing, why don't you talk to the people that she stepped on during her climb up the ladder. And the trooper she is being investigated for pursuing for purely personal issues.

And, guess what, Palin is not successful yet, either. (nor do I believe she will be)

Interesting indeed.....

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

I wasn't trying to turn this into a slam on anyone - not Hillary, if that's what it seemed.

I just think it's interesting that of the three women, the one that fought for position is the one who is the one who *doesn't* have it.

And no, I don't think she scratched and clawed - certainly not in the way Hillary did. Hillary has *wanted* it for a long time, the national power thing. I don't get the idea that Palin has.

And I also didn't mean to intimate that Hillary has no power. Just that her biggest goal was a spot on the executive ticket... and that it doesn't really seem to have been a lifelong ambition for MO or SP to be part of "first family" status... and yet for whatever reason, things have fallen into place that landed them there.

Bullsh*t. I call bullshi*t on this.

And you can't presume to know what is in Hillary's heart. She is 10 times the woman that Palin is.

Oh, for crying out loud.

It was the SNL spoof that made me consider all of this. I realize it's just a humorous skit, but I hadn't considered from a "human" standpoint how it must feel to have wanted something so badly - and to have worked so very hard for it - and to then have to deal with the reality that someone who *did* get it hadn't even had their heart set on it.

We dealt with that on a personal level in our house when our well-liked-but-not-in-the-popular-crowd daughter who campaigned and made treats and worked hard in hopes of a school senate spot didn't win... and the three uber-popular girls who didn't even make a single poster or hand anything out skated right into the positions over the fourteen other candidates who really, really wanted it.

My daughter said, "It's just not FAIR - it's like they didn't even care and they won, and we cared and we didn't win! What's up with that!?"

I had to realize that's probably sort of how Hillary is feeling right now.

I understand what you are saying wowitsdark (and didn't take it as a slam on Hillary at all). She must feel very frustrated right now!

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Thanks, hambirg. Because Hillary has been in the public eye for so long and hasn't really made it a secret since... oh... probably Bill's 2nd term that she had political aspirations of her own, I long-ago stopped seeing her as a *person* and began viewing her as a *politician*. And I know I felt some of that during his first campaign, when she did the "Stand by my man" thing and spent a lot of time under scrutiny for issues like the double-billing at the Rose Law Firm. She never was a politician's spouse to me in the same way I view Michele Obama or Todd Palin.

Michele Obama seems to have a reputation for pretty much just saying what she means and I don't get the feeling that she spends a lot of time contemplating 'image' or 'angles' or 'how it will play in Peoria'. I think the same is true of Palin.

But Hillary *has* played that game, probably because she was a woman in a man's world and that's how *they* seem to play the game... with lots of handlers and people who spend time analyzing the polls and the demographics and telling them how to phrase things in Peoria vs. how to phrase them in San Francisco. Because her introduction to the political scene was t hrough Bill's situation, it's essentially how she cut her teeth in politics - from that frame of mind.

The conventional wisdom has been, I think, that the roadmap to political success dictated that you play the game that way, and Hillary has d one what it took to play by those rules.

And here comes this woman who has absolutely none of that under her belt, and yet she's being very impactive. Agree with her or disagree with her on issues... it doesn't change the fact that she has some quality that has put her front and center, and she seems to be pretty clueless about all those 'necessary' games that Washington has seemed to think you *have* to play if you want to play the game.

When I watched interviews of Plain last night on Greta that were from way back during her Mayoral race days, I saw a happy, enthused, gum-smacking wife who just thought it was no big deal to say, "I wanna be your mayor 'cause I wanna clean house and make this place fly right. It's not rocket science - ya just do it!" She really lacked the sophistication that conventional wisdom insists you MUST have to win. She's definitely matured a lot since then, but still obviously isn't where Hillary is.

And yet.... here we are with her in the spotlight and with seemingly more favorable coverage than Hillary ever enjoyed.

I guess the lesson to take away from it all is that there really *isn't* a perfect formula that will guarantee political success.

ETA: I wonder if Hillary had run for governor of NY, rather than as a senator, if that would've made a difference. Carter.... Reagan... Bush II.... it seems like we do tend to not turn to senators when it comes time to select presidents in our more recent elections.

I've said this before, I don't agree with Hillary Clinton on some of the issues, but I think she is smart and experienced. I think she would have been a much more formidible opponent than Obama. She has the experience and she knows what she's talking about. Also, any "dirt" that could have been drug out to smear her is old news and has already been aired during her husband's campaigns. Of course the far right doesn't like her, they weren't going to vote for her anyway. but I think she would have pulled a lot more of the undecided, middle of the road voters. Her husband was a popular President, one would think that would have worked in her favor. I think the Democratic Party made a greivious error in not nominating her. And now, apparently there are some questions as to whether or not the nomination was valid (all the stuff about caucus fraud in Texas, etc.). On a personal level, I feel for her. It just doesn't seem to make any sense that she isn't in this race.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

TOO funny. So you know Hillary and Sarah so well that you can make that judgment? Interesting.

And how would you know this? You obviously like Hilliary's politics better but you can't possibly support a ridiculous statement like this. Everyone votes for a candidate that best represents their views but even so, it doesn't automatically make another candidate less a woman or a man than the preferred candidate, much less 10 times over. ???

That is my opinion and I dont expect you to feel the same way. I should have said IMO.

Hillary is a woman??? ya learn somethin' new every day. ok really, just a joke

But to say she is ten times the woman Sarah Palin is one of the MOST ridiculous statements I've ever read on here.

Sarah Palin is full of grace and confidence. She exudes these traits. She represents a HUGE part of the population of women in the US, more than most know because we aren't loud. I have confidence that she represents MOST of the women in the US, and that will be proven in Nov.

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Melissa

She represents not one single woman I have talked to since her nomination--not one, and I work with, socialize with, and know a LOT of women. So, your assumption is just wrong in my personal experience. And, yes, we WILL see how wrong you are come November.

__________________
"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

I agree. //

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l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

jeanief......same here. Hillary does not represent any of the women I socialize with. That includes professionals and sahms. I guess it depends on who you spend your time with.

I take that back....I have one friend that is as liberal as I am conservative. I have no idea what her view is since I've not spoken to her about the election. But, we love to talk politics and religion so I'm sure I will. I can tell you that she will not in any way be hateful about Sarah Palin and will be able to see in her what I see whether she agrees with her politics or not. While she is a liberal, she is the gentler sort.

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Melissa

I highly respect HRC and would feel strongly represented by her. Oh, you most certainly read into my post what you wished to be true....BUT my post was a response to your post that MOST women, in your mind, are represented by Palin. NOT ONE WOMAN I know, associate with, work with, etc. feels represented by Sarah Palin. I surround myself with intelligent, educated people who are quite capable of doing their own research on ALL subjects, policies, past voting patterns, etc, and they ALL know that Palin is NOT a person who represents their wants, wishes, desires or needs. Nice try....

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"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

Wow - you ONLY associate with the most intelligent and educated of people, and they ALL feel EXACTLY the way you do!!! That's some coincidence!

I have to assume that either:

a) You're making the "intelligent, educated people" that you "know, associate with and work with, etc." feel highly uncomfortable with your invasive questions regarding who they support...

or


b) You don't know enough "intelligent, educated" people...Maybe time to expand your horizons?

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"The errors of faith are better than the best thoughts of unbelief." - Thomas Russell

Jeannie, I wasn't 'trying" to do anything. You said Palin does not represent you, I said "same here" Hillary doesn't represent me.

devinmom, I think the term is "high minded' apparently my friends are not educated, intelligent people since they like Sarah.

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Melissa

I know what you're saying. But I think that both Clintons had political aspirations from their college days. It would have been impossible at that point in time for her to run for anything much higher than a county council in most parts of the country. Palin is the recipient of the change in attitude from the hard work of women from the past who have made life better for all of us. And I have to give Palin credit, although it may only be lip service on her part, but she admits as much herself. I also have to say that HC was fairly clueless the first few months in the White House, but I think she is smart and learned quickly. Unfortunately she learned the hard way with her attempt to make health care changes. But I believe that is a great part of what made her the person she is now.

I don't quite remember, but it seems like she was thinking about governor of, was it, New York? But the senate was a more winnable seat at the time? I may have that confused with someone else.

Palin owes her celebrity in large part to her looks. If she looked like your great aunt Esther she would not be getting near the attention. I'm not saying she's stupid. But her looks have gotten her places most of us can't go to. There are a lot of men on both sides who would not mind a little alone time with her. There may even be some who are changing their vote because of her looks. Hopefully not many. But given the way some men think, who knows. And right now, celebrity is what it is. I notice no one calling Obama a celebrity anymore.

Yes, my friends and associates ARE very intelligent and (if you read my post you would know) have taken the time to be INFORMED. DIdn't say that made any of you less intelligent....but seems you think so somehow. Jealousy is not becoming.

__________________
"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

My friends are very intelligent and take the time to be informed as well. Just because they don't reach the same conclusion doesn't mean they aren't. But I think that is the problem with the left, they just can't imagine that someone who doesn't agree with them can possibly have a brain. I might add that my friends are also wise.

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Melissa

Why are you so hostile??

Maybe a little Palinization is in order!

She (Palin) always seems to exude joy!