I have to continue this, because you all are wrong on your accounts of thinking that I want to believe the derogatory statments over facts.

The fact is that I had read that his mother had Obama in Kenya (this is from the documents that were filed in Court) and went to Hawaii to register his birth.

I can see where people are saying that he couldn't have been born in another country or the GOP and Hillary both would have been all over this. That does make sense to me. But again, where is the proof, Just because something makes sense, doesn't mean it is true in such a senseless society that we live in today.
Why does his half sister and half brother say that he was born in Kenya?

As far as the question that was raised about Obama having citizenship in Indonesia, here is the link:
http://www.guncontrolkills.com/199/e...-us-president/
and from your very own Hillary Clinton Forum
(Aug, 11, 2008) "Did Obama Travel To Pakistan on Indonesian Passport?" (Free public) - www.hillaryclintonforum.net
"Investigation further showed that, in 1981, Obama traveled to Pakistan, using his Indonesian passport. At the time of his travels to Pakistan, Obama was twenty (20) years old. He certainly knew that he retained his Indonesia citizenship, and it is implausible that he could not have known that he had failed to regain his United States citizenship (if, again, he had been born in Hawaii). Indonesia does not allow dual citizenship. Had Obama regained his United States citizenship, he would have been traveling on a United States Passport. "

On the other hand, to be fair (as you say I am not), this website says that they did research and could not find any facts that he traveled under an Indonesian Passport, however, they said this:

"A WND investigation could not find any proof Obama used an Indonesian
passport to travel to Pakistan. However, WND noted that Pakistan in 1981 was
under military rule and that it was difficult for U.S. citizens to travel to
the country without assistance - meaning, it would have been easier to enter
Pakistan on an Indonesian passport"

DEMOCRAT Sues Hussein Obama over Fraudulent Dandidacy. - rec.music.classical.guitar | Google Groups

Here is from your very own factcheck.org stating he did hold dual citizenship

FactCheck.org: Does Barack Obama have Kenyan citizenship?

So, he hasn't been a Kenyan citizen since 1982?

What about Indonesia? He was a citizen there in his boyhood.

So now he has held citizenship in three different countries during his lifetime?

and here is his school registration

WAS YOUNG OBAMA INDONESIA CITIZEN ??....YES...PROOF IS HERE....MUSLIM !!! - The Immigration Debate - AOL Message Boards



As far as McCain..come ON.. both his parents were in the Canal for military duty. He was born there and is AUTOMATICALLY a US citizen because both of his parents were in the military.. and because they were citizens, so is he.

You all should know the laws of citizenship. I am shocked if you don't.

To add,

How in the world do you (who are for Obama) know that you can't change my mind on who I will vote for on Election day? How do you know that I am not trying to prove him to be the right candidate?

The fact that you say that I have ulterior motives offends me and will result in many people turing away from the party just because they are accused unsparingly for asking questions.

You just never know, and as I stated before, you are acting paranoid.

Wow! Thanks for all the info and the links!

Yeah. . .that was really the only issue that concerend me, whether he still holds Indonesian citizenship. I guess that still hasn't been completely answered. I'm not sure what the laws are on that. . if it's like Kenya (if in fact he was even born there) that it would expire at some point in time or not.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

From what I understand, he does not hold Indonesian Citizenship, because Indonesia requires that you renounce other citizenship in other countries in order to retain citizenship to their country, after a certain age.

So, I am thinking ,based on what I have read, that he does no longer hold citizenship of Indonesia.

But the fact remains, that he held citizenship in three different countries. That could be considered a conflict of loyalty. UNLESS, of course, the far (read: outer space) left (who are only a few on here) can come up with some sure fire proof, witholding their criticism, cut downs and diatribes.

I won't be holding my breath for too long.

Here is a link from WND (a very "socially conservative" site) that clearly states that even IF Indonesia did not recognize dual citizenship, US law recognizes dual citizenship. This article states that it is difficult to enroll a child in public school in Indonesia if not a Indonesian citizen. So, the parents chose to list "Indonesian" instead of American. It is not clear that he ever was an Indonesian citizen--just that his parents listed him as such on school papers. Can he be held accountable at age 6 or 7 for his parents listing whatever on school papers to make it easier to get him into school? And, even were he an Indonesian he still retained his American citizenship under AMERICAN LAW. This is such a non-issue.......

Now, I will wait for those who are about to question his "loyalty" to America since his parents listed him as an Indonesian citizen....


Was young Obama Indonesian citizen?

__________________
"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

Please post your PROOF of his citizenship in Kenya...other than you "read it" somewhere? Also, no PROOF of his Indonesian citizenship other than that listing on his school papers. Show us YOUR "sure fire proof."

__________________
"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

OK Breathe.

So now we can question his loyalty because he lived in Indonesia from the time he was 6-10? Give me a friggin break. Obama haters will grasp at ANYTHING!

If you don't want criticism don't post such assine claims.

I am not questioning his loyalty to America at all.

This is the law. You can never have held citizenship in another country and be eligible for the Highest Office in our Country.

I mean, did I read THAT wrong?

Here you go again. Please read and click on links. Or like I have been told before.. do your research.

But because I am nice, and am not into doing that kind of mud slinging, I have done this search and found out this. It was posted in my original post.


FactCheck.org: Does Barack Obama have Kenyan citizenship?

It's from the very same site that has been used here, ad nauseum, to prove the dems stand on many issues.

Why don't you show me YOUR sure fire prrof that he wasn't a citizen of Indonesia??? I was the one who asked first for help on these issues, and you are the one that won't answer.

Oh, and I don't hate Obama! Please get your facts straight. If I said that, fine, but I have NEVER said that.


Again, quit putting words in my mouth (which some of you seem to do so well around here!!! ugh!)

He was never NOT an American citizen--NEVER. AND, since you are challenging US to give you "sure fire proof", show us YOUR "sure fire proof" SURE FIRE that he EVER held other citizenship. Other than a public school application in Indonesia...which is NOT proof.

__________________
"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

You do realize that people can accuse someone of anything in court papers, right? That does not make it true.

I don't know if they actually said that. Besides, the Hawaiian hospital he was born in certified otherwise.

I don't think anyone is questioning that people are posting these things on the internet, especially on blogs and message board forums. But a lot of it is rumor, innuendo and many outright lies and smears.
The links above (IMO) fall into that category.

But earlier, it was stated that he traveled on an Indonesian passport. Now, they cannot find proof but because they feel it would have been easier to travel w/ an Indonesian passport he must have had an Indonesian passport? Where is their proof other than assumptions and conjecture?

Right. From the link:
Yes, but that did not stop someone from questioning John McCain's eligibility to run for president. Nor did it stop them from suing, just as they did Barack. I'm shocked that you do not see the correlation; anyone can accuse anyone of anything. Sometimes it takes just a modicum of common sense to sift through some of this.

__________________
@@@
l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

Thanks Jeanie for your insightful post. Truly appreciated.

Thanks for going through step by step for me.

I can see many of your points, but I still find it hard to understand one thing. Does the law state that it is okay if you are under the age of 21 to have held dual citizenship in another country and still be eligible to run for the Presidency?

If so, then all of this is, as you say, nonsense.

SO you are saying that factcheck is not "sure fire"???

Where is the Indonesian "SURE FIRE" -- a public school registration sheet is not proof by any means AND it is obvious that Obama had dual American/British citizenship because his father was British, and because Kenya was a British territory at the time.....and by all sorts of "subsets" that British part of the citizenship qualified him for Kenyan citizenship by default, although he never claimed Kenyan citizenship AND HE WAS NEVER NOT AN AMERICAN CITIZEN.

__________________
"Well-Behaved Women SELDOM make history."Laurel Thatcher Ulrich


"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

Here's an interesting blurb. . .but again I don't think it has any bearing as to whether or not he is able to run. . .because he was never not a US citizen according to US law.

Obama's American mother, Ann Dunham, separated from her first husband, Barack Obama Sr., in 1963 when the presidential candidate was two years old. Dunham and Obama Sr. are reported to have later divorced. Dunham married Lolo Soetoro, an Indonesian, and moved to Indonesia sometime between 1966 and 1967.

It was not clear whether Soetoro adopted Obama, either in Hawaii or in Indonesia, but there is strong circumstantial evidence that he did as far as Indonesian law was concerned.

In Indonesia, which was under tight rule in 1967, Obama clearly took on the last name of his stepfather in school registration documents. All Indonesian students were required to carry government identity cards, or Karty Tanda Pendudaks, which needed to bear the student's legal name, which should be matched in public school registration filings.

Following his enrollment at the private Assisi school, Obama attended public schooling in Indonesia until he returned to Hawaii at age 10. According to Indonesian legal experts, it was difficult to enroll non-Indonesian citizens in public schooling.

Obama arrived in Indonesia at about the age of five according to most accounts, although it was possible he arrived at the age of six, according to a few sources. If Lolo Soetoro adopted Obama at age five or younger, then Obama would automatically have become an Indonesian citizen according to the country's laws in the 1960's, which stipulated any child aged five or younger adopted by an Indonesian father is immediately granted Indonesian citizenship upon completion of the adoption process.

Lolo Soetoro could have adopted Obama in Hawaii, although such an adoption would not have necessarily been recognized by Indonesia.

Indonesian law at the time also did not recognize dual citizenship, meaning if Obama became Indonesian, then as far as that country was concerned, his U.S. citizenship was no longer recognized by Indonesia. But U.S. law would still recognize Obama as an American citizen.


Was young Obama Indonesian citizen?

I find this all kind of interesting because my ex-husband is in kind of the same boat. . .born in the US, but moved to Germany as a toddler, granted German citizenship, and then returned to the US as an adult. He's still not sure if he still has German citizenship.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

You did question his loyalty "But the fact remains, that he held citizenship in three different countries. That could be considered a conflict of loyalty." Post #5

This is the law....
Qualifications for the Office of President
US Constitution, Article II, Section 1
No person except a natural born citizen, or a citizen of the United States, at the time of the adoption of this Constitution, shall be eligible to the office of President; neither shall any person be eligible to that office who shall not have attained to the age of thirty five years, and been fourteen Years a resident within the United States.
LII: Constitution

Obama did have dual citizenship at one time. This does not disqualify him from becoming President.
"Obama held both U.S. and Kenyan citizenship as a child, but lost his Kenyan citizenship automatically on his 21st birthday"
FactCheck.org: Does Barack Obama have Kenyan citizenship?

Good question.
I could not find anything in the Constitution (as it relates to the qualifications to be president) that addresses the past dual citizenship issue.

__________________
@@@
l/ l/ l/
Dont go through life,
GROW through life

Real eyes...realize...real lies.

Re: Post #5, I can see how that would seem to you that I was questioning. Wasn't my intention in my statement, although it sure appears that way! I need to pay more attention that I don't take what someone else has stated and make it appear to be my own belief/statement.


Factcheck:

I had posted that previously..did you miss?

BTW.. I like the way this discussion is going now..

I am getting a lot from the last few posts that have been made.

Thanks esp to AMulquin and hambirg!

I found this. . .which is kind of funny considering the current questioning of Obama's citenzenship.

Are there any disadvantages to dual US/other citizenship?
Aside from the possibility that one or the other country might decide to impose distasteful restrictions on you because they consider you to be one of their citizens, there are at least two issues that you might (or might not) see as causes for concern.

If your line of work requires you to have a security clearance for accessing classified US government information, you may very possibly find that actively acquiring or retaining a foreign citizenship may cause you to be refused clearance (or may cause a clearance you already have to be revoked). If this might affect you, you would be well advised to consult with a knowledgeable lawyer.

If you are seriously planning to seek a political office in the US -- especially in the federal government -- it is extremely possible that having a second citizenship may be a serious liability. Your opponent will almost certainly be sorely tempted to (mis)represent your status for his/her own political gain -- questioning your loyalty to the US and your suitability for office -- and any efforts on your part to explain or justify your situation are likely to fall on deaf ears. This is less likely to be an issue if you are running for a state or local office.

Questions and answers on dual US/other citizenship


:lol::lol::lol:

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

No I didn't miss it. I reposted it because you wrote "This is the law. You can never have held citizenship in another country and be eligible for the Highest Office in our Country." The FactCheck link makes it obvious that Obama has had dual citizenship it is NOT a secret. If there was a problem with dual citizenship don’t you (general you) think he would not be in the position (presidential candidate) that he is now?

How very, very funny

That makes total sense. Yes.

Great...this was starting to remind me of Abbott and Costello's "Who's on First?"

Good Night Ohhgodd

LOL! funny

Good Night and pleasant dreams!

On the right, there are videos...... the one titled "Obama's crimes" pertains to this post. It is worth looking into,IMO.


Road Sassy Blog Archive The Dirty Dog Days of Barack Obama

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.