LOL - good one, kolu.

Obama's smirk is reminiscent of Al Gore's sighs, only visual rather than auditory.

Dontcha think?

ETA: Am I the only one who hears Obama trying to say Pok-ee-ston with a Middle Eastern accent? Is he trying to sound more multi-lingual or something? I thought we called it Pak-a-stan... right?

Funny, I was thinking while I was watching the debate that someone here will not be able to fault Obama on this debate...he was forceful, take charge, confident and presidential. So, what will be picked on will be the way he said a word. Like when someone is losing a battle on a message board, suddenly spelling becomes an issue.

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RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Oh, I'll pick at the things he said later.

I'm trying to listen right now, so you can count on any posts I make for the next little bit to be pretty surface level.

I didn't think he looked presidential. I thought he looked rehearsed. McCain seems to be speaking from experience, like he didn't need coached to death because he's been living through many of these issues. He didn't just study them as history - they've been his life, so he can speak about them in the first person. Obama simply can't - he was in practically in kindergarten when some of these key things were happening.

I didn't think for one minute that you wouldn't pick on the things that he said. LOL What I liked was the obvious admiration that Obama has for Sen McCain. And I guess in some weird way, though he didn't say it or give Obama any credit during the debate, Sen McCain may admire him as well. Obama said many times, that Sen McCain is right when he says......and Sen McCain was right.

Rehearsed is not what I got. What I got was prepared. Able to speak on his feet. The ablility to think and know the material well enough to speak intelligently and make a point. I guess it is in eye of the beholder, I see prepared and you see rehearsed.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Has anyone noticed how many times Obama has said things like Senator McCain is right? It happened more in the first hour. It would make for good tv ads!! I noticed the Pakistan pronunciation too.
I think Sen. McCain, so far, seems more confident.

PS And how many times has Obama stuttered?? That is really noticeable. (And I'm not making fun of stutters, it just makes him look like he's not sure what he's saying.)

Again, eye of the beholder. I won't say yours is biased on lots of levels but Obama appears to me to be polite as well as prepared.

I won't comment on the stutterer but I seem to remember your indignation when someone else here commented on a certain stutterer in another thread a while ago.

I didn't notice the stuttering as much probably because I was concentrating on what was being said. For both candidates. John MCCain has some interesting stories. He has a story about every subject but really not a lot of fact or numbers.,

Both candidates did a fine job tonight. I just happen to think that the clear winner is not Sen McCain. And I know myself well enough that I would think that way whether I was voting for him or not. I would be diappointed tonight if I was a McCain supporter.

Fear, fear, fear.......

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

One thing we do agree on, usnamom - it's an eye of the beholder thing.

What I see in Obama is that he has a lot of ideas and thoughts and knows facts as though he has been a student of those things.

What I see in McCain is that he has lived through those things and was on the front lines of many past decisions, both good and bad, and has a more realistic perspective of what works and what doesn't.

McCain has a very long record and we know - as he's said a couple of times, probably at the recommendation of his advisors - that he wasn't a Mr. Congeniality winner. He truly has a history of cutting to the chase, dissing his own party when he believes it is in the best interest of the country, and doing what he believes is the right thing, regardless of how it will play in politics.

I was fortunate to hear David Gergen speak last week and he made a very interesting comment. He said he believes when people see McCain ... well, if you were going to hand the keys to your Jaguar over to someone, when you look at McCain you see someone you wish you could've let drive eight years ago, and when you see Obama you see a 16 year old kid that you think you'd like to see drive it eight years from now. His speech both fascinated and frightened me, and though he came across as bipartisan, I walked away resolved that the experience McCain has is vital in a leader. He was hard on Palin for her inexperience, no doubt about that, and he made some very good points, but in the end, looking at the top of the ticket, I felt terribly confident that McCain is a better choice.

You're kidding right. Yes Obama stuttered but McCain was doing it as much or more.



Did anyone see McCain's face when Obama talked about McCain singing about bombing Iraq. I thought he lost it. And McCain was crunched over and would not look at Obama. That shows a contentious (almost contemptuous) attitude. Not Presidential at all.

Both said that would vote for the bailout (intervention in the market ) They are certainly not listening to the American people.

Both will continue/expand the "wars" (Afghanistan, Iran, Pakistan)

They both agree that Russia started the Georgian conflict.

Major differences in spending, taxes.

I thought McCain did fine, and I think that, given how low the expectations were for him, it gives him the edge in this debate.

Just in interests of full candor, I thought when McCain suspended his campaign and asked for a delay in the debates, he only really wanted to lower expectations.

And he surpassed the low expectations that his campaign manufactured. His opening statement sort of sucked though.

On the debate, I call it a draw or maybe even a "plus" for McCain, because he was better than the low expectations that I had. I would also give Obama a "negative" for harkening back to McCain too many times, It is a technique called "interest based bargaining." You highlight your similarities before you point out the differences. It's a great negotiating tool. I question its effectiveness in a debate.

And I don't have a thing to say about the substance of the positions, which is kinda sad.

I didn't learn a thing tonight that I couldn't have scripted myself off the candidates' stump speech. Mind you, I buy Obama's positions more than McCain's, but I thought it was very predicable as far as the substance goes.

I did think that Obama looked presidential and acted presidential, and McCain seemed mean. I don't know whether I was reading things into the debate because I support him and don't support McCain, and think he is a nasty person,. I thought McCain seemed like a bit of an *******.

I don't totally disagree.....well, except for the end conclusion.

If McCain had won the republican nomination 8 years ago I probably would have voted for him. I know my dh would have. I believe we'd be better off today had he won (though I believe we'd be better off with just about anyone other than Bush) I like him and I feel he's sincere when he talks.

I'll be voting for Obama though, I believe he's the better choice for the country today. He shares a lot more of my views than McCain. I also don't want Palin as president, should McCain pass away. If I could have my way, Obama would be VP ( to Biden or Hillary, or someone else with more experience ) for the next 4 or 8 years and then president. But that's not one of the choices.

__________________
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

I pretty much agree with Dannyboy on this one. I thought it was pretty much a draw and the substance was predictable.

I think they both did pretty good in making their points. McCain came off smoother than normal and I thought Obama didn't stumble as much as I thought he would.

This is kind of a small thing, but it struck me while watching it . . .Obama seemed to kind of concede to McCain in a way. The point I was thinking of was when McCain was talking and Obama tried to talk over him, but McCain just kept on going and Obama gave up. It's almost a subconscience thing, but it struck me as giving the perception of McCain having more authority. Did anybody else notice that or think that? I think McCain ended up looking slighty more of the authority and that helped drive home his experience message.

But overall, I thought it was eh. . .fairly predictable. . .certainly eye of the beholder, and I don't think it probably swayed any undecided voters one way or the other.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I found that lots of things that both said were either around the bush or hidden context. BUT what I got sick of was how many times McCain chose to rely on his military experiences for EVERY issue brought up. Sorry, I respect those who have fought for out country but just because he has experience in the military area does he have experience in handling economic problems in any situation. I like the facts that Obama is THINKING....McCain spent more than a little time "hiding" with his head bent down during the debate. While Obama LISTENED to what McCain was saying and showed him respect. Something I think McCain should have learned a LONG time ago considering his age...and his military background.

I just think that McCain has a lot of work to do to get his old brain moving enough to bring in some NEW ideas...and statements. I'm tired of hearing about his military ...I think he could bring up his military experience at a funeral. Too old to remember what he is supposed to say and then says what he can remember because it is all he really knows????? I don't know...

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Grandma to Angel Yla Margaret 5-13-06 & Little guy Lionel Azarell 8/13/07

I noticed Obama had on a flag pin.

And McCain, did not.




You all knew I would notice that, though. LOL

Didnt have much time to post last night. My sister called me 3 times AFTER the debate to talk. Geesh!

Anyway here is my impression.

John McCain was slumped over and looked and acted like a grumpy old man. He looked older (if this is possible) under the harsh lights. I know I was biased but I don't see how talking continually about war and how wonderful he is will endure him to most Americans who have the economy on their minds right now. And he was so vague about what programs he wants to cut and which he will keep. Very untrustworthy as to the economy.

Barack can across as nice but strong and forceful. He sure didn't let McCain get by with the lies he was spewing forth. And I liked how he was turned toward McCain and talked to him like he should have instead of ranting and raving and throwing up his hands and then looking down at the podium with clenched shoulders.

McCain just couldn't face his opponent. It was obvious by his sneers and body language that he is resentful and feels superior toward Barack.

Barack on the other hand was very clear in his answers and seemed very relaxed and I love his smile. I think most will find him more trustworthy than McCain. He did exactly what he needed to by putting his best face forward. Especially to those who were really seeing and getting to know him for the first time last night. I was so proud of him. He was very direct in his answers which I think people are looking for in a President.

I think Barack earned the name straight talker last night more than McCain.

I have to say that McCain's demeanor last night goes along with the erratic way he has been acting this past week since the polls changed to Barack's favor. I know, I know, the polls don't mean much but evidently they rattled McCain enough to throw him off.

ETA: I forgot to talk about how barack rocked on foreign policy last. He seemed more calm and just as knowledgeable as McCain on foreign policy. Another reason i am so proud of him and what he knows. Can i just say WOW!!!!!

Nah, I think he was trying to be polite to McCain and debate properly. The point of the debate is for each to get their thoughts out and perhaps Obama was allowing him to do so. If I was debating someone that much older than me I would probably defer a bit to him/her out of respect because I am a repectful person. Doesn't mean that I am putting them above me or kowtowing to them, just that they are older than I am and deserve a modicum of respect. Besides, Obama has already been called "uppity" once.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Both did a lot better than I expected. I thought McCain was a little stronger on economy and Obama really rocked of foreign policy. I think I expected the opposite to be true for both of them, so that stands out for me.

I found Obama to be more respectful. What was a bit daunting to me was McCain not looking at Obama. He also came off as a bit nasty and condescending.
I don't think it's necessarily bad for someone to agree with someone on certain points. To me, that shows someone is willing to look at both sides and can work with that person. I don't want someone who is always so set in their ways and are hard lined.
McCain's strong point was he was able to steer to conversation and in key points able to put Obama on the defensive. However, I found his manner quite off putting. Barack was strong and forceful while being respectful. At the end of the debate, he complimented McCain, which IMO showed that even during a competition, he could be kind and courteous. I did not get the same sense from McCain.

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Real eyes...realize...real lies.

On foreign policy it seems like Obama wants to follow more of the "Bush doctrine".

Thinks we have the right to go into another country (Pakistan) to go after "terrorist" locations. Go in whether that country agrees or not.
This is the very reason that Pakistan is starting to fight back against the US.

The only "change" I see in foreign policy that Obama plans is to scale down our troops in Iraq and add lots more troops in Afghanistan. More willing to "talk" to US enemies.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0WOFrEgRu4

I watched the debate last night and again this morning. I did not see a "winner". Both made good points, both had flaws.

Obama seemed nervous. He did stutter quite a bit, which I have not seen in his speeches. When you are having a discussion without a prompter you need to be more confident. If he gets before a world leader and stutters and fumbles, it's going to look like a sign a weakness. He did, however, give acknowledgement to McCain on points he agreed with. I appreciate that.

McCain seemed pushy, somewhat aggressive and condescending, but was effective in getting across what he wanted to say.

The body language for both was about what you would expect. The young Obama, straight, tall and a confident. McCain, definitely less poised, relaxed, and much a more animated use of his arms and hands.

The Issues - So disappointing. This was basically supposed to be a debate on foreign affairs. Disappointing that so little time was actually spent on the subject.

Quite frankly, I did not hear anything that has not been said before.

Disappointment with McCain - He kept stressing that he would do everything he could for Veterans - Well that's wonderful, but what about the rest of the population? (And quite frankly, as a veteran myself, I don't get it. There are so many programs out there for help to veterans, I don't understand how much more he wants to give out) I mean, why did he make this his closing message?

Disappointment with Obama - Tell me something I have not heard before. Tell me more about your thoughts and plans for terrorism in the US. He just touched on Afghanistan, but did not really say what he can do to abate the terrorism coming out of the area. I do wish he had more experience in dealing with these people.

I think the debate was too short and did not stay on-topic. I am anxious to see several more with these two men.

Although the VP debate may be entertaining, I'm just not that impressed with either of them, and wish the time was spent in Presidential debates instead.

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Mary

I have to admit, the more I am reading about the bailout, the more I see WHY it is so important to do, if not it really could criple us. I just hope they have some kind of provisions that it's not just handed straight over & we at least have some chance of profit from it down the line & we don't hand that profit right back to the thugs who abused it the first time around.

One of the major "red flags" with the bailout ..was section 8. They were trying to give absoulte power to the Secretary of the Treasury.. no court of law overseeing.
They have tried to put in oversight but that is just putting the same people in charge (Bernake and Paulson and a few others) The "fox guarding the hen house"

What they are trying to do is mess with the business cycle. Recession is viewed as a bad thing in the US but it is part of natural business cycle. By not allowing the recession that should have occur years ago to contuine to keep growing ( malinvestments) we will pay the price eventually.

Some economists think these actions (bailout) will lead to a major downturn for at least a decade (10 years) or prolong what is going to happen. Just like the Great Depression.
There is hardly ever any talk of 1921 when there was the worst recession because it only last a little over 1 year.
1921 - "The economy of North America took a nosedive and shrank by a much larger percentage than it did during the Great Depression."

We remember the Great Depression because it last almost a decade.

This bailout, "rescue" plan is only another in a long line of band-aid fixes. This will not be the last you see of bailouts. It will keep increasing.

The only good thing that might come out of this bailout is that it will give some of us long to get ready. Pay off debt (mortages, cars..if you own it yourself the better off you will be).

I thougth the debate was a tie. Nothing really new. I was a little bothered by Barck Obama saying he would go in and capture and KILL Biin laden. I don't think that is somehting a world leader should say, we will KILL someone. I also think Barak obama was nervous . He got JOhn Mccains name wrong on a few times. I thimk John Mccain was bent over writing. I noticed they both were wrinting, taking notes.

I understand what your saying. But I don't really think it was a manners thing. At least it didn't come off that way, because it was McCain's turn and Obama was trying to interupt him, but then gave up. I know it's a really small thing, but it just stuck out in my head as I was watching it happen.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

That shows that it is Obama that has bipartinshp not Mccain.

It reminded me of conversations with my husband who is about McCain's age. He is going deaf and unless you shout, you can't interrupt him. And if you do manage to interrupt him, he either loses his train of thought or just keeps on talking anyway. I thought it made him look deaf or stubborn. Or both.

Fair enough. . .I just wondered if anybody else noticed it and what they thought because it was something that stuck out to me.

Regarding debates, I found this today (yes, while stalking Lester Holt. . .). I wanted to get some of your thoughts on it. It's pretty much how I feel. I always find these debates disappointing in that it just seems like mostly rhetoric and not any "real" debating. Kind of like Dannyboy had said above . . .there's not anything new, just talking points that could be lifted right out of either candidates stump speeches.

YouTube - George Farah on Lester Holt Live

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I didn't see when this was taped. How old is it? I agree with most of it. But I see no reason to set up yet another group, just turn it back to the League of Women Voters.

There haven't been what I consider true debates in years. Everyone on this board is pretty well up-to-date on who is doing and saying what to who, so all the candidates say is certainly old hat to us. We sit in front of our TV's, minds made up, waiting for one side or the other to make any kind of gaffe that can be waved in front of the believers to prove the point that their side is right and the other side is wrong.

I think the only hope for excitement this year is the VP debate. Either nominee is capable of really stumbling and allowing the other side to say, "See see, look how dreadful they are." I'm just hoping it's not my side.

Actually the candidates should not be allowed to determine the debate rules and schedules. It should be a set format that is followed each time and with no variation, except perhaps in topic, and that would depend on what is happening in the world at the time. It also might be fun to sit them down at a table, with no moderator, no audience and just a list of topics in front of them. Then just let them have at it.

Yeah, it's old. They showed a clip of a Kerry/Bush debate.

I agree. I would love to see the debates go back to the League of Women Voters!

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm