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Old 09-28-2008, 09:26 PM
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Maybe it is the Beauty Queen thing.....

Now I live in South Carolina so I am not putting anyone down just noticing the similarities.....
Miss South Carolina
YouTube - Miss Teen USA 2007 South Carolina answers question Subtitles

Sarah Palin

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXPVc
I would be petrified and pissed if I was planning on voting Republican.

Just saying...don't hate the player, hate the game.
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Old 09-28-2008, 09:41 PM
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And the hits just keep on coming.....




I am so grateful for Gov Palin, Sen McCain's top choice. She has been the source of quite a few laughs here in our home this weekend.

I am sure she is a perfectly nice woman, just clearly out of her league. Clearly
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Old 09-28-2008, 09:58 PM
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Yes it's funny what she says about Russia, but you can argue that at least she knows that they didn't have tv's in 1929 and that Roosevlet wasn't president.

YouTube - Biden on FDRs management of the 1929 crash

See how silly this train of thought is?
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Old 09-28-2008, 10:02 PM
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Oh, yeah we laughed at that one too. Just thought that since we have heard how smart and savvy Sarah is and wondered why she was being sequestered, it was obvious once we heard this. Every politician misspeaks now and again. The key word being now and again. Even GWB misspoke but sometimes he spoke well. It doesn't seem to be that Gov. Palin is able to speak well under duress.

I am hoping that she is just a ringer. And that at the debate she can come out and speak well and be knowledgeable.

But what this is saying is that there is a reason she isn't being trotted out to speak everywhere, KWIM?
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Old 09-28-2008, 10:03 PM
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Just saying...don't hate the player, hate the game.
YouTube - Miss Alaska 1984 footage unearthed
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Old 09-29-2008, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by hambirg View Post
Yes it's funny what she says about Russia, but you can argue that at least she knows that they didn't have tv's in 1929 and that Roosevlet wasn't president.

YouTube - Biden on FDRs management of the 1929 crash

See how silly this train of thought is?
I beg to differ.

It would be one thing if she just messed up on a word or two....clearly Biden was refering to the famous radio address by FDR during the crash....saying TV rather than radio. I mean, come on...that happens to all of them sometime.

I think you could go back in the archives and find where most, if not all, Presidents, World Leaders, Newscasters, and actors have made this type of error on camera/broadcast. It is human nature. I've done it plenty of times (off camera of course - because I haven't been discovered yet) and I'm sure most posters have as well, when there isn't the pressure of public speaking or an interview. I cut all of them a little slack, including Palin, because they are basically living like they are on a job interview everyday -- and if you'e ever sat across the desk from someone drilling you as to "why do you think you are the right person for the job" then you would understand a little (just a little) of what I'm sure they feel like every day. So again, slack for a word here and there.

I would be willing to admit that I even cut Palin a little more slack than I would some of the others. She's a little more "new" to the game than most of them. Compare her to Biden, for example. He's been doing this for many years...countless interviews and speeches. I'm sure he's had a camera in his face more times than he can count...so, of course he has an edge. Palin also kind of has this "casual charm" to her, so you almost want to have a cup of coffee with her and go "so, tell me about yourself."

But, here's where it falls apart for me....and why I don't think this is a silly train of thought. We are almost a month away from the election. They should all have thier "game faces" on. Not only haven't we seen her "game face"....but, we've barely seen HER. And if the best we are going to get up to the debate is this Katie interview, then she's got no game...and in a debate against Biden...let's just say no one is going to give her any favors on that one....not him, not the press, no one. This isn't her mistating a word or maybe quoting a wrong figure. It's much more.

And DON'T for a second think about arguing that a VP doesn't need to be "polished" like that....because a VP is no joke.
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Old 09-29-2008, 01:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelliiii View Post
I beg to differ.

It would be one thing if she just messed up on a word or two....clearly Biden was refering to the famous radio address by FDR during the crash....saying TV rather than radio. I mean, come on...that happens to all of them sometime.

I think you could go back in the archives and find where most, if not all, Presidents, World Leaders, Newscasters, and actors have made this type of error on camera/broadcast. It is human nature. I've done it plenty of times (off camera of course - because I haven't been discovered yet) and I'm sure most posters have as well, when there isn't the pressure of public speaking or an interview. I cut all of them a little slack, including Palin, because they are basically living like they are on a job interview everyday -- and if you'e ever sat across the desk from someone drilling you as to "why do you think you are the right person for the job" then you would understand a little (just a little) of what I'm sure they feel like every day. So again, slack for a word here and there.

I would be willing to admit that I even cut Palin a little more slack than I would some of the others. She's a little more "new" to the game than most of them. Compare her to Biden, for example. He's been doing this for many years...countless interviews and speeches. I'm sure he's had a camera in his face more times than he can count...so, of course he has an edge. Palin also kind of has this "casual charm" to her, so you almost want to have a cup of coffee with her and go "so, tell me about yourself."

But, here's where it falls apart for me....and why I don't think this is a silly train of thought. We are almost a month away from the election. They should all have thier "game faces" on. Not only haven't we seen her "game face"....but, we've barely seen HER. And if the best we are going to get up to the debate is this Katie interview, then she's got no game...and in a debate against Biden...let's just say no one is going to give her any favors on that one....not him, not the press, no one. This isn't her mistating a word or maybe quoting a wrong figure. It's much more.

And DON'T for a second think about arguing that a VP doesn't need to be "polished" like that....because a VP is no joke.

I don't agree. Quayle and Gore were both jokes.

ETA: I understand the whole "hiding" her thing. And I agree, they have been hiding her. But like you said. . .she is new to this game. I'm sure she is probably not ready. . .she hasn't had the time that Biden has with these topics. Here's where I have a problem with the logic though. Just because she is new to the topic and doesn't have the background knowledge yet in no way implies she won't ever, or that she will somehow be a bad VP.

My dad used to teach US History. In the late 70's they had him switch to teaching Accounting and Computers. He crammed all summer long to learn what he needed to teach those. Was he not ready at some point in time. . .yes. Was he a bad teacher. . .no.

Both Pres. Clinton and Pres. Bush were govenors when they were elected. How much foreign policy experience did either of them have when they were elected? I really don't remember it being an issue during their campaigns. Not being snarky at all, just honestly don't remember it being an issue.
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Last edited by hambirg; 09-29-2008 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 09-29-2008, 04:59 PM
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Originally Posted by hambirg View Post
I don't agree. Quayle and Gore were both jokes.

ETA: I understand the whole "hiding" her thing. And I agree, they have been hiding her. But like you said. . .she is new to this game. I'm sure she is probably not ready. . .she hasn't had the time that Biden has with these topics. Here's where I have a problem with the logic though. Just because she is new to the topic and doesn't have the background knowledge yet in no way implies she won't ever, or that she will somehow be a bad VP.

My dad used to teach US History. In the late 70's they had him switch to teaching Accounting and Computers. He crammed all summer long to learn what he needed to teach those. Was he not ready at some point in time. . .yes. Was he a bad teacher. . .no.

Both Pres. Clinton and Pres. Bush were govenors when they were elected. How much foreign policy experience did either of them have when they were elected? I really don't remember it being an issue during their campaigns. Not being snarky at all, just honestly don't remember it being an issue.

Again, I am going to differ with you....and I promise to keep my "snark" in my pocket.

While I'm not a huge fan of Gore, you can't compare the two. He had served in office since 1977 and was widely interviewed and active in debates prior to the election. There is no question that the Clinton campagin was one of the most active, media hungry campagins we've ever seen in American history. Clinton/Gore won that race because they were both in our faces all the time. Regardless if you like them or not, Clinton and Gore are both excellent public speakers and debaters that were worked well by the campaign machine. The McCain/Palin ticket is in direct contrast to Clinton/Gore. THey are sheltering her, keeping her away from the media, making excuses and ultimatly this is hurting them. Like I said before, saying things like "she's a quick study" is not a positive statement in this climate....hiding her is only doing a diservice to her credibility.

The role of the VP isn't to hide out and wait for the President to die (although, it seems as if this has been what the current admins defins the VP as). You are right....the fact that she might not be as well versed on some issues won't make her a bad VP, but it might not make her an effective President. When looking at a VP, you need to ask the question " Can I see this person leading the country for part of 4 years" because there is a chance that it could happen. For some voters, they are old enough to remember times when the VP was forced to take over, think Kennedy and Nixon admins....and there was a moment where we almost lost Reagan. With both Obama and McCain, we need to be sensitive to this now more than ever.

Forgein Policy and it's importance, like many other issues, swings with the polical pendulum. A good example was during the Nixon years it was very important (China, Russia) and carried all the way into the Reagan years (end of the Cold War, shift in global power). Forgein policy, while still important, move a little further down the list while domestic issuse move closer to to the top of the list....it wasn't until 9/11 that we have a major shake-up. There had been many important forgein policy issues that came up during the Daddy Bush and Clinton years, but they weren't what Americans seemed to be focused on. Now that the global climate has shifted, there was an attact on US soil, and we are in a war, the pendulum has shifted back.
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Old 09-29-2008, 05:35 PM
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I can agree with what you're saying. But I still think it has probably been a wise choice to keep her under wraps thus far. If she hasn't learned enough about foreign policy issues yet and they put her out there unprepared, she will look like an idiot. At least that's how it will be construed. She may not be an idiot, just unprepared on foreign policy issues. By not putting her out there the worst we can assume is that she is unprepeared. Does that make sense? We will all get to see soon enough.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:24 PM
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It makes sense....but, only if she was their only option....which she wasn't. The GOP (or, I should say McCain...not everyone in the GOP approves of that Palin choice, but they have to live with it) had an opportunity to pick someone who was ready to speak on these matters and has more experience

IMHO I feel that experience in Congress and working within that arena is more valuable than sole state or city leadership -- for example, I love Rudy and think he did great things for New York, but he's not President material -- just like I would scoff at the idea of Richard Daly from Chicago or Jeb Bush from FL -- some people are just better at the state level....but again, that is just my opinion. And as someone who lived in IL and in Chicago-proper, I watched Obama for a while now, and the reason he is a Senator is because he is one of those guys that can go to the next level....he might have shown up to the game a little too soon for some, but none the less he comes across as Presidential. If they are hiding Palin now, it just confirms that she might have needed a little more experience...like maybe another term as Gov before she was brought to the table. If you are worried about looking like an idiot this close to election day, you might as well be an idiot....again, they are doing her a huge diservice to her credibility.

If McCain had chosen someone else who was ready to show me their stuff, he may have won my vote....but at the end of the day, I don't trust her to lead the counrty if she's not ready to get in front of cameras now ....you may, but I don't.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:33 PM
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Hambirg....

Wow. Look at us playing nice....

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Old 09-29-2008, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelliiii View Post
Hambirg....

Wow. Look at us playing nice....

LOL! I always play nice when somebody explains there opinion and it makes logical sense.

Btw.. . .I think Romney would have been a better choice, and I also think Clinton should have gotten the nomination for Pres.

I have never based my vote on the VP side of a ticket though. I don't ever see that changing for me.
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Old 09-29-2008, 09:56 PM
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It makes sense....but, only if she was their only option....which she wasn't. The GOP (or, I should say McCain...not everyone in the GOP approves of that Palin choice, but they have to live with it) had an opportunity to pick someone who was ready to speak on these matters and has more experience

IMHO I feel that experience in Congress and working within that arena is more valuable than sole state or city leadership -- for example, I love Rudy and think he did great things for New York, but he's not President material -- just like I would scoff at the idea of Richard Daly from Chicago or Jeb Bush from FL -- some people are just better at the state level....but again, that is just my opinion.

If McCain had chosen someone else who was ready to show me their stuff, he may have won my vote....but at the end of the day, I don't trust her to lead the counrty if she's not ready to get in front of cameras now ....you may, but I don't.
True, true, true.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, McCain should have chosen Pawlenty. I don't agree with a damn thing Pawlenty says (although there maybe some, but I can't think of them now), but I still like him. I think he's smart. And he wouldn't have had to be coached so much on responding to important issues. (I'm filing a reservation of rights here to strongly criticize him on many issues, including experience, in the eventuality that Palin steps down, but my point here is that he would have been better strategically and practically).

Being VP and possibly President isn't an entry level position. I do think that the Republicans are wise to muzzle her based on her interview with Couric. Really, sending her out without advance preparation, based on the evidence of that interview, would have been suicidal. I don't know where that helps the Republican argument though.

Honestly, the Couric interviews were so cringe-worthy that I felt bad for her. I am voting for the opposing party for all sorts of other reasons. But the lost opportunity for the Republicans captures me. In his heyday, McCain came closer to appealing to my left-leaning sensibilities than any Republican seeking national office has. If I feel that way, I think lots of uncommitted would have.

It was a dumb choice, IMHO. She might do great on Thursday. She is poised enough to pull it off.

But I think that McCain could have done better. I just can't imagine that she is the best that the Republicans had to offer. But I could be giving your party more credit than it is giving itself. But I think that the Republican party has done a great job in nuturing its up-and-coming. And I don't think Palin had enough nuturing.
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Old 09-29-2008, 10:11 PM
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True, true, true.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, McCain should have chosen Pawlenty. I don't agree with a damn thing Pawlenty says (although there maybe some, but I can't think of them now), but I still like him. I think he's smart. And he wouldn't have had to be coached so much on responding to important issues. (I'm filing a reservation of rights here to strongly criticize him on many issues, including experience, in the eventuality that Palin steps down, but my point here is that he would have been better strategically and practically).

Being VP and possibly President isn't an entry level position. I do think that the Republicans are wise to muzzle her based on her interview with Couric. Really, sending her out without advance preparation, based on the evidence of that interview, would have been suicidal. I don't know where that helps the Republican argument though.

Honestly, the Couric interviews were so cringe-worthy that I felt bad for her. I am voting for the opposing party for all sorts of other reasons. But the lost opportunity for the Republicans captures me. In his heyday, McCain came closer to appealing to my left-leaning sensibilities than any Republican seeking national office has. If I feel that way, I think lots of uncommitted would have.

It was a dumb choice, IMHO. She might do great on Thursday. She is poised enough to pull it off.

But I think that McCain could have done better. I just can't imagine that she is the best that the Republicans had to offer. But I could be giving your party more credit than it is giving itself. But I think that the Republican party has done a great job in nuturing its up-and-coming. And I don't think Palin had enough nuturing.
Great post, DB. I feel for Gov Palin. I think she is perfectly qualified to be the Gov of Alaska but not the VP. Her appearance with Katie Couric was cringeworthy and though the pundits are asking for Sarah to just be able to be herself, I am not sure we haven't seen exactly that. I am looking forward to the debates when it will be all on the table. I hope she does well for her sake. I am pretty sure that Biden will do well but it is her that concerns me.
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Old 09-29-2008, 10:16 PM
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True, true, true.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, McCain should have chosen Pawlenty. I don't agree with a damn thing Pawlenty says (although there maybe some, but I can't think of them now), but I still like him. I think he's smart. And he wouldn't have had to be coached so much on responding to important issues. (I'm filing a reservation of rights here to strongly criticize him on many issues, including experience, in the eventuality that Palin steps down, but my point here is that he would have been better strategically and practically).

Being VP and possibly President isn't an entry level position. I do think that the Republicans are wise to muzzle her based on her interview with Couric. Really, sending her out without advance preparation, based on the evidence of that interview, would have been suicidal. I don't know where that helps the Republican argument though.

Honestly, the Couric interviews were so cringe-worthy that I felt bad for her. I am voting for the opposing party for all sorts of other reasons. But the lost opportunity for the Republicans captures me. In his heyday, McCain came closer to appealing to my left-leaning sensibilities than any Republican seeking national office has. If I feel that way, I think lots of uncommitted would have.

It was a dumb choice, IMHO. She might do great on Thursday. She is poised enough to pull it off.

But I think that McCain could have done better. I just can't imagine that she is the best that the Republicans had to offer. But I could be giving your party more credit than it is giving itself. But I think that the Republican party has done a great job in nuturing its up-and-coming. And I don't think Palin had enough nuturing.
I've heard Pawlenty's name thrown around before but I'm really not familiar with him. I know quite a few people who are disappointed that he didn't pick Romney or Huckabee. . .I don't like Huckabee though. It's a kind of wait and see thing with Palin now. We'll at least get to see her in a debate soon. . .though I don't have a lot of confidence in the debates (since they're not run by the League of Women Voters)anymore.
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Old 09-30-2008, 11:25 AM
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I really don't see how the debate is going to show us anything we don't already know or can't kinda figure out on our own. Biden, will be Biden. He is very intelligent and well versed on the issues....he's had many years of doing the Washington thing. But, he is going to "lose points" one way or another....he is either going to come across too hard on her, or too easy....it is a lose/lose for him. We are already being set up to be "shocked" by her....either they've spent so much time preping her that she actually sounds like she knows what she's talking about, or she is going to trip over herself. If Biden doesn't go after her, he's weak....if he takes the opportunity to call her to the carpet, then he's a bully.

I guess that's something that I really resent about all of this. As a woman who works in a very male dominated industry and it been very hard for me and a few other women to get into the boys club and shake things up, this speaks to me on a primal level. I got cut up a lot busting my way through the "glass ceiling" -- and I guess that's one of my problems with her -- it looks like they are protecting and coddling her. She's coming across as a "tool" -- a way to win over voters. Simply, I think I'm just disappointed that how this is playing out is setting us back as women and not pushing us forward.

And Hambirg, I can honestly say that the VP side of the ticket never carried as much weight with me back in the day, but over the last 10 years the global climate has changed -heck, the domestic climate has changed. Its not just who's the President or who is the VP that we need to look at....its what kind of Admin these people are going to put together. Who is going to come sit at the table with them? And as we've seen in the last 8 years, that can make or break a county.
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