So who do you all fell did better?

Joe Biden or Sarah Palin

Biden did better but Palin redeemed herself somewhat for all the bad slips and non answers so has had lately.

JOe Biden all the way. Peace. Catherine

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Palin did really well, but Biden did a little better.

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I thought Biden did better. He actually answered the questions, and he was polished. Her cutesy winks and "you betchas" were totally inappropriate. Why would anyone want a world leader to behave in such an assinine way is beyond me.This is not a school senate election. She wants to expand the duties of the vice president! Oh help us all. Why do people think it would be cool to have someone in office just like them? We tried that once it was Bush and it was/is a disaster. I think in the end if you like her to begin with you will be happy. If the sound of her whine sends chills up your spine, you are probably popping and excedrin by now.

You all were sitting there waiting for this question weren't you? 14 votes in 10 min.

you all have a good day.

I call foul here.

Bush was criticized because he was from a wealthy family and everything came to him easily because 'daddy' arranged it.

Clinton was the one who claimed to be 'just like us'... poor guy from Hope, Arkansas.

If you go back and listen to Bill and Hill in interviews from the days when he was a governor running for President, you couldn't find anyone who sounded *more* hick than him... and she had this accent that was heavy and hickish and not quite natural.

Bill claimed to be 'us', to know 'us' because he was one of 'us'. I don't think Bush really made that claim.

Oh no, many many people said they would vote for Bush because he would be fun to have a beer with.

Also for the love of pete it is NUCLEAR,not nucular. Pronouncing it like the latter makes a person sound so ignorant.

Sorry, but I don't want to play the game that way, where words like 'ignorant' are tossed around flippantly about people who have obviously worked hard to get where they are and who have the courage to stand for their convictions. I would say the same about Biden.

While that particular mispronunciation makes me cringe, I know that where I grew up, that *is* how it was pronounced. Probably still is. It's obviously a tricky word because it is so often mis-pronounced, and I do believe there is a geographical tendancy to pronounce it one way or the other. Palin speaks differently than someone from the lower 48. Her accent is pronounced, her inflections atypical of an east coast elitist... and yet every bit as American.

Tricky? How? There is no U after the C. It is not like potato where it is perfectly acceptable to say it with a long or short a. It is not a dialect issue, or an accent issue. It is the ability to actually read a word and pronounce it correctly.

Alrighty. If that's the way you want to view people, I certainly can't stop you.

Ditto! I agree 100%

Ah, but I think if she were pro-abortion you'd be singing her praises.

Just sayin'... I think you're letting your views on the issues cloud your ability to see Palin through 'reality glasses'.

I live in Western Washington and we say nucular. I know that's not how it's spelled, but that is how you hear it said all the time up here. When I first saw the tape of her saying that, I didn't have any idea what people were trying to point out. I just wanted to shed some light on that, being from the same neck of the woods. We also always say the, pronounced thuh. We never say the, pronounced thee. Once in college I was reading outloud. . .thuh apple. The professor pointed out that when the precedes a word that starts with a vowel, it is pronounced the (thee). I had never heard such a thing in my life! LOL! He said it was a Northwest thing. Apparently so.

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Personally, I don't care what her politics are...no, actually, I guess I'm just really relieved she's not on my ticket because I don't think I could in good conscience vote for her. She's Dubya in a skirt and an updo. Same smirk, same asinine non-answers, same refusal to admit when she just doesn't know something, same folksy b.s. rhetoric. Joe Six-Pack my ass.

I'm also really glad that this election seems to be so much more about the real political issues and not about a legal medical procedure and a desire to prevent other people from enjoying the same marital rites as others. Karl Rove saw the power of marketing Bush along those lines and people came out in droves to vote based solely on them. Not foreign policy, not economic policy, not intelligence and not ability (if they had, McCain would be ending his second term right now..because remember, he was a whole lot more liberal before he realized that there's only one way to be the Republican candidate these days). So people voted on abortion and gay marriage, and look where we are 8 years later. Abortion is still legal, and gay marriage is making serious headway. In exchange for that whole lot of nothing, our country is in the state it's in...see, that's where the whole foreign and economic policy hoopla would've come in.

As an aside, I remember when Bush was first elected and I thought to myself "please, just let him serve his term and not do any damage". Holy crap, talk about wishes that don't come true!

Maureen

There are more than one way to prounounce that word. NOthing ignorant about it, other than not knowing that some words have different ways to say them.

JOe Biden said he is against gay marriage.

I definitely think Palin did a better job last night

We have two tv's with TiVo so we were switching after the debate to listen to the analysis on different channels.

The most mentioned comment was that Palin did a great job of holding her own -- and even coming out ahead quite a few times -- against a man who has decades of experience under his belt.

I'm delighted because I think the McCain/Palin ticket is exactly what this country needs.

I feel very, very optimistic about the election now.

That's irrelevant to my point. I said I'm glad the election is about political (rather than religious) issues, as it should be. The focus has definitely shifted from 2000...probably because our country is such a different place now and we don't have the luxury of disregarding things like foreign and economic policy.

Maureen

Why does Palin think that "Hockey Mom" and her alcoholic husband "Joe Six-pack" resonates with voters? Ugh. Biden was much more polished. She came off as, well, a hockey mom.

Because it is another way to divide people. You talk about them against us...rich against the regular folk. The "elite vs the regulars". Get people to view anyone who disagrees with your politics as stuck up, smug, arrogant and have them believe that you are down to earth and just like them only in reality, John McCain is wealthy beyond our imaginations and Palin keeps forgetting that she makes over 80,000/year and lives in a 14,000 sq ft home and her husband make 50 dollars an hour as a fisherman when he works, so when she says she is just like the middle class, she is not quite in the same league as some who truly are in the middle class.

The hokey gimmick doesn't work for me.

Biden.
Knowledgeable,rational, statesmanlike, acute.
I was especially touched when he spoke about his kids and the car accident.

I thought Biden exceeded expectations.. He did a great job last night, IMO

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There is one, and only one, correct way to pronounce the word nuclear. While there are different areas of the country which produce different pronunciations of certain words (think of the word "aunt") there remains only one way to correctly pronounce the word nuclear. Adding the extra vowel is ignorant.

We have all hear people mispronounce the word "library" by leaving out the r. It doesn't matter how common it is in your area; it's incorrect.

Gosh, that's a snooty way to view people.

I agree that it's not correct, but I certainly wouldn't call anyone ignorant who pronounces it differently.

Me thinks that there is so much focus on her linguistics right now because frankly, you know Biden went down in flames last night in the eyes of many undecided voters when compared to her. If you can't attack her on policy, pick at her habits of speech.

What I find fascinating about her speech patterns, personally, is that there are times when she has obviously said a word that isn't going to be correct from a grammar standpoint, but then she alters the last half of her sentence on the fly to make the word that was going to be *wrong* actually be *correct*.

Am I the only one who has noticed that? She's very fast on her feet when it comes to switching her sentence structure in mid-stream and getting it to pass muster with an English teacher.

Barack Obama can't say Massachusetts, but, that's OK.

YouTube - Barack Obama Mispronounces Massachusetts....MASSATOOSITS
Candidates Differ On 'Pakistan' Pronunciation

Facts aren't snooty. Palin is ignorant of the correct pronunciation of the word "nuclear." It's not a speech pattern, it's a mispronunciation. As an aside, I am amazed at how similar her speech patterns and accent are the Midwest. I have heard a lot of other Alaskans with the same accent lately.

Her sentence structure is horrific. She has a tendency to ramble. Some of her answers were incoherent. As far as going down in flames, there's no doubt that Biden won the debate. Palin won undecided voters on Fox, but, every other group broke for Biden. You betcha!

I don't think she's IGNORANT of the correct proununciation.

I think she grew up in a region of the country where it *is* pronounced that way, so that's the way it comes naturally to her.

What IS it with the "Pok-ee-ston" pronunciation that Barak seems to do? That's one I don't get. I'm sure he didn't grow up hearing it that way, said as though he is trying to mimic a middle eastern accent. His grandparents raised him and that's certainly now how a Kansan says PAK-I-STAN.

It's not worth picking over... I'm just saying that they all have speech idiosyncracies. Doesn't change the fact that I plan to vote on the issues that matter to me.

As I said earlier, it doesn't matter how many people around you mispronounce a word like library or nuclear, it is not acceptable to say libary or nucular. People do it because they are ignorant of the correct pronunciation.

Didn't notice anything odd about the way Obama pronounces Pakistan. I don't know that everybody needs to sound like they came from Kansas. I mean no offense, but, Kansas isn't known as the cultural capitol of the world.

My mom was from Boston, my dad from Wisconsin and I have a Southern drawl. I even had a British accent for a couple of years. We're all products of our environments.

Dang, you're elite.

I'm not from Kansas either, but I certainly hold people from that state in higher regard than you seem to.

If that's the way you wanna be, go right ahead.

And yes, I said wanna. I also say ya'll. Lots.

So sue me. Or don't vote for me.

But ignorant I am not.

I don't have a problem with people from Kansas and I also say, "y'all." Thanks for the compliment!

I have lived in the south and developed the drawl. Then I moved to the midwest and do say y'all. But I do not use it when I am giving a speech to a large group in a formal setting. If I am addressing a group of students in a relaxed atmosphere I may use it. I don't believe that Barack adds a vowel in the word when he says Pakistan. He does not say PakisUtan. Nucular is not an incorrect pronounciation it is in fact a made up word.
If someone points out that I am misprounouncing a word, I learn from that mistake. I do not dig in and say well that is the way I say it. I can acknowledge that I was wrong. Maybe it is a "maverick" thing?

The one that drives me crazy more than nuclear is when people say ree-la-ter.

Oh - and spaded. Can't forget spaded. Unless you are growing veggies in your dog's fur, I wouldn't try spading him.

Spoken language always comes first. Many people say nucular. It's not like Palin just mispronounced it.

Why Does Bush Go "Nucular"?
By Kate Taylor
Posted Wednesday, Sept. 18, 2002, at 6:29 PM ET

When speaking about nuclear weapons, George W. Bush invariably pronounces the word "nucular." Is this an acceptable pronunciation?

Not really. Changing "nu-clee-ar" into "nu-cu-lar" is an example of what linguists call metathesis, which is the switching of two adjacent sounds. (Think of it this way: "nook le yer" becomes "nook ye ler.") This switching is common in English pronunciation; you might pronounce "iron" as "eye yern" rather than "eye ron." Why do people do it? One reason, offered in a usage note in the American Heritage Dictionary, is that the "ular" ending is extremely common in English, and much more common than "lear." Consider particular, circular, spectacular, and many science-related words like molecular, ocular, muscular.

Bush isn't the only American president to lose the "nucular" war. In his "On Language" column in the New York Times Magazine in May 2001, William Safire lamented that, besides Bush, at least three other presidents—Eisenhower, Carter, and Clinton—have mangled the word.

In fact, Bush's usage is so common that it appears in at least one dictionary. Merriam-Webster's, by far the most liberal dictionary, includes the pronunciation, though with a note identifying it as "a pronunciation variant that occurs in educated speech but that is considered by some to be questionable or unacceptable." A 1961 Merriam-Webster's edition was the first to include "nucular"; the editors received so many indignant letters that they added a usage note in the 1983 version, pointing out its "widespread use among educated speakers including scientists, lawyers, professors, congressmen, U.S. cabinet members, and at least one U.S. president and one vice president." They even noted its prominence among "British and Canadian speakers."

These days, Merriam-Webster's sends every reader who fusses about "nucular" a defensive, 400-word response letter. Click here to read it.
Why does Bush go "nucular"? - By Kate Taylor - Slate Magazine

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

What about "slow up" Biden said it several times. I think it just sounds stupid. Luckily, I don't vote based on silly crap like that. Because I like Obama/Biden and I'll vote for them anyway.

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I agree. I think this "how somebody pronounces a word thing" is silly. Most people I know say i-urn not i-ron and Feb-u-ary not Feb-ru-ary. It doesn't make them ignorant, and to imply so is well. . .ignorant.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

to me that mean the "normal folk". I believe the way Palin speaks is easier to understand, Many people don't understand politcs and all the political wording. My vote goes to Palin!!!! We need a woman to clean up a mans mess!

I cannot think of a more accurate description for mispronoumcing a word than ignorance. If you like, we can call it uneducated as to the correct pronunciation or unaware of the correct pronunciation.

Not uneducated either. . .just a variant based on metathesis.

We do not list the pronunciation of "nuclear" as 'nü-ky&-l&r as an "acceptable" alternative. We merely list it as an alternative. It is clearly preceded by the obelus mark ÷. This mark indicates "a pronunciation variant that occurs in educated speech but that is considered by some to be questionable or unacceptable." A full description of this can be found in the Guide to Pronunciation on our website at http://www.m-w.com/pronguid.htm. We are definitely not advocating that anyone should use the pronunciation 'nü-ky&-l&r or that they should abandon the pronunciation 'nü-klE-&r.

To say "the word is spelled (x), and therefore should be pronounced (y)" doesn't make any sense. Spelling is not a legitimate basis for determining pronunciation, for the following reasons:

1) English spelling is highly irregular. For example, "move", "dove", and "cove" are spelled similarly but pronounced differently. Likewise, "to", "too", and "two" are spelled differently and pronounced the same.

2) English spelling is frequently based on factors besides pronunciation. For example, the "c" represents three different sounds in "electrical", "electricity" and "electrician", but is spelled the same in all to show that the words are related.

3) Most importantly, spoken language is primary, not written language. Speaking is not the act of translating letters into speech. Rather, the opposite is true. Writing is a collection of symbols meant to represent spoken language. It is not language in and of itself. Many written languages (Spanish, Dutch, etc.), will regularly undergo orthographic reforms to reflect changes in the spoken language. This has never been done for English (the spelling of which has never been regularized in the first place), so what we use for written language is actually largely based on the spoken language of several centuries ago.

All of the entries in our dictionary (pronunciation, meanings, etc.) are based on usage. We have an extensive collection of files which date back to the 19th century. Language is changing all of the time in all respects, and any dictionary which purports to be an accurate description of the language in question must be constantly updated to reflect these changes. All words were pronounced differently at some time in the past. There is simply no scholarly basis for preferring one pronunciation over another. To not list all pronunciation variants would be irresponsible and a failure of our mission to provide a serious, scholarly, record of the current American English language.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Without going over to dictionary.com, I'll say that my belief is that 'ignorant' means one simply is not educated about a specific piece of information. Not that they're stupid, not that they have no mental capacity... just that there is something they simply do not *know*.

Something tells me that somewhere along the line, someone has mentioned to both Palin and Bush that the word can only be comprehended by the elite snobs of the US if you say it NOO-KLEEE-ER.

I think they probably both said, "Well, they aren't going to vote for me no matter how I say it, so I'll just say it the way much of the country does, the way I heard it all my life, right or wrong. Nu-ku-lar. It'll drive the snobs crazy, and I think that'll be fun. They'll make a fuss over it and come off looking petty. Works for me!"

You're funny.

You're so origina....

Oh, wait. Nevermind.

"Holding her own" did NOT win her the debate from any poll or pundit I have seen or heard. See this link:

Who won the VP debate? - Yahoo! News

I too am glad she is on 'your" ticket because that means she is NOT on the one I am voting for and the one that will win on Nov. 4th. It only means that she did way better than expectations on her based on her earlier interviews.

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Have the courage to be yourself.

I'm not sure what political wording you're talking about, but I find her condescending. She winks like she's talking to her children. Blech.

As a woman, I say let men clean up their own messes. Anyway, she won't have the power to clean up any messes. That would fall to McCain. He's running for president - not her. (Though you'd think it was the other way around, sometimes.)

Bush used the same phony "folksy" way of presenting himself. I guess if it worked for him, she's hoping it will work for her. (Is she just Bush with lipstick?)

Frankly, I want someone who is smarter than me in office, not some "hockey mom" or "Joe six-pack." (Is that a reference to Joe's drinking habits or is he ripped?)

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As you all may have noticed I have not voted I don't want to perswade votes to go one way or the other.

I thought I read when I voted that posters could see how individual's voted. Is that correct or did I misunderstand?

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Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

Just click on the number of votes.

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

Ah, thanks!!

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Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

That's fascinating.

I see a username I recognize as belonging to ... well, I think someone voted twice for Biden using two different usernames.

At least two.

I thought Biden did better that Palin, overall. I thought he said something. But Palin did better than expected. She beat the spread. A lot of people see that as a victory. If you have limited expectations, you rejoice when people surpass them.

So why don't you post the names you suspect? Many of us would hate to think an MC'er would post an insinuation just because ...

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Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

Pardon me, ana - I'm busy watching Lion King right now. I'll get back with you on that...

You have enough time to post a response, but not enough time to simply post the username that you think is a sockpuppet?

How odd.

Look forward to a fuller explanation.