Am I the only one who found this term extremely annoying?

No, I'm not fond of it either.

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Why is she advocating drinking?

I also find it offensive.

I didn't find it offensive at all. I swear some people "try" to be offended.

Well, we're middle class. What's more middle-class American than downing a sixer after a hard day's work? That doesn't make you an alcoholic, it just says you're a regular guy. A good American. A manly man. Don't be such an elitist. You're probably one of those educated, arugula-eating types who drink wine (probably French wine and we all know what that means...traitor). You've probably never even shot a moose. What the hell kind of American are you???

Gotta go...time for my kid's hockey game. Where the hell is my lipstick????

Maureen

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I also thought it was in poor taste. I remember a Simpsons cartoon from years ago where Montgomery Burns was running for something and as a put down said every Joe Six Pack, so that is all I saw when she said it too. To me it sounds like she is calling us all stupid rednecks.

Nah, it's not offensive. It just means your average, hardworking blue collar man! At least that's what it means in our neck of the woods.

Well no one in my house drinks so I do find it offensve to lump the middle class in a group like that. My DH is a hard working factory worker and I still find it offensive.

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Then why not use something like "Joe Everyman" or "Joe Average". I found the comment highly insulting.

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I don't think it was the best choice of words, for sure.

Offensive??? It surely could be to some, just like someone saying "he was swearing like a truck driver" or any other number of sayings. I doubt the majority of us would find that offensive, yet let a political figure say it, and well......you know how that goes.

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Looks like some folks need to grow tougher skins.

I wonder... does Joe six pack cling to guns and religion?

Folksy Sarah is trying to appeal to people the same wat that Bush did. Some people would like to have a beer with her and will vote for her for that reason alone. Doggone it!

Joe Six-Pack doesn't bother me. Gov. Palin didn't say SHE was a Joe Six-Pack.

If Gov. Palin and Sen. McCain can get the United States out of the mess it's in right now and help old Joe Six-Pack and hockey moms, then it's fine with me if she wants to call people Joe Sally Frank or Jim!

Me thinks some people are too thin-skinned!

That's great! I love it. I'm going to start calling her Sarah Six-Pack. You Betcha!

Say it isn't so!

And let's recall under whose watch we got into that mess. Two wrongs don't make it right.

Maureen

If you look it up in the online dictionary it means "ordinary man" or "blue collar worker". Nothing offensive about that!

Which online dictionary? I couldn't find it.

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According to an Urbandictionary.com definition that was posted in 2004, it means:

A normal or average "run of the mill" person; or rather a person of daily life.

Oh Urbandictionary.com.....the official dictionary of Joe Sixpack.....LOL Have you read the stuff on that site? I wouldn't quote UD.com as a source myself, but hey...you go right ahead!

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Hey, if it's Joe's official dictionary, who are we to argue with it?

Seriously - the fact that that's considered the top definition by those who have voted and it's been sitting there on the web as such for four years says it's probably pretty commonly accepted to be so.

Yes, let's not forget who got us into this mess!

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merriam-webster online

Merriam-Webster Online

"Joe Six–Pack
One entry found.


Main Entry:
Joe Six–Pack
Function:
noun
Etymology:
from the stereotype of a six-pack of beer as a workingman's drink
Date:
1975
: an ordinary man ; specifically : a blue-collar worker"

Thanks!.....

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I couldn't find it in an online dictionary either -- those I found referred to John Q. Public. I did find this definition from wiki:

As the OP said I not only find the term annoying I find it extremely condescending.

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Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

More definitions from Urban Dictionary......lol


Joe Sixpack:
Average American moron, IQ 60, drinking beer, watching baseball and CNN, and believe everything his President says.
**This is so simple, even a Joe Sixpack can understand. **

joe six pack:
The appropiate nickname for the ignorant masses drowning out all remaining hints of intellect on our planet. You know them--they're the same kind who take Jesus' death for granted, eat at McDonalds every day and think pan-and-scan is superior to widescreen.
**JSP dies of heart attack from eating one too many Big Macs**

A.J. Sixpack:
Average Joe Sixpack, is a generalization put on the largest economic demographic in a particular culture. Often characterized as "trailer trash", "overweight" or "low income" in imagery.
**A.J. Sixpack doesn't give a **** about the election, he just wants his reality TV and Hungry Man dinners, served up on a copy of Playboy. **

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I guess that it depends on your online dictionary. The Urban Dictionary has this:

It's the second definition. Number 1 isn't much better. It says:

For me, "Joe Six Pack" seems to try to convey an image of some group that is mainly lower middle class guys who have little invested in their work, do it, work real hard, earn their paycheck, come home and drink a six pack.

I think this is a stereotype. I don't think it exists except as a stereotype.

We can debate whether my definition or some other is right. I don't think it's particularly important.

It's the last part -- they drink a six pack -- that bugs me. How stereotypical?

If Palin wanted to convey the idea that her plan, McCain's plan, appealed to the average worker, why didn't she say it without using this slick "Joe Six Pack"? I do know people who fall within the first part of my definition, but I don't know anyone who falls into a definition that includes the "six pack" part. And using "six pack" as the defining term annoys me.

Maybe there are guys like Joe Six Pack out there: middle class guys who do the job, and have a six pack at night.. But I have never met one. I've certainly met workers who just do their jobs because they need to have a job, but I would never demean them with an abbreviation like "Joe Six Pack."

Middle class America is being squeezed. The Average Joe, which as I understand it you believe Palin was actually referring to, or as KathyThe Shopper defined as the "ordinary man" or the "blue collar worker," is desperately afraid of losing their job. They don't drink a six pack at one sitting. They need to get up at some ungodly hour to earn a respectable wage, and they hope like hell that their jobs are not going to India.

I didn't say that it was offensive. I did find it annoying. I'm 48. From a solidly middle-class family. My sister takes her kid to soccer, and tells me that she can't afford to have her boys in hockey. It's just too expensive. My BIL hates his job, but he does it, because it has health insurance and his family needs it. He stresses out every month about whether his employer can meet its payroll. My younger brother is working for an employer that is being marketed for a possible merger. His job would most likely go in a merger, and the value of his home has fallen dramatically in the two years since he bought it.

They are average guys. There are a lot of average guys out there. Struggling to stay employed, to bring home a pay check, to keep (if they are lucky) health insurance, and if they are absurdly lucky, a job that has some pension or retirement plan.

To use "Joe Six-Pack" as a shorthand to describe them annoys me. I think it demeans them.

Does it offend me? No. I'm offended by the idea that Palin is considered a reputable candidate. The use of folksy shorthand to describe a demographic offends me. Relying upon talking points as though they were answers offends me.

Pretending that Palin is the next great hope, and that she brings something to this ticket because she talks folksy, is offensive, because she just isn't saying anything.

So, "Joe Six Pack" just annoys me. It doesn't offend me.

But it does signal to me that the Republican campaign is relying upon folksy shorthand to try to persuade voters. And they are doing that because they don't think that voters are intelligent enough to look beyond what they say to the substance. And that underlying presumption that we don't look to the ideas, the philosophies, the positions, does offend me.

But back to "Joe Six Pack." It's annoying.

That's it.

Gosh, ya'll.

This is just making me smile.

The fact that you're all so twisted up in knots about something so trivial makes me think you're nervous.

You're spending far too much time picking apart our VP candidate and not nearly enough praising the virtues of your own.

That speaks volumes. Many, many, many, many volumes.

Sarah's really gotten under your skin, 'eh?

Do you at least like her glasses? lol

Now don't get me wrong...I love Sarah Palin. I think she's an absolute godsend to the Democratic party. I think what bothers most people is that for eight long, dark years we've put up with a 'regular joe' talking down to us despite an obvious failure to grasp the issues and it's just too much to ask for us to tolerate a female version of the same.

But I love her...if the Democrats win, we should send her a fruit basket.

Maureen

Mo, I think you're avoiding the question.

Do you like her glasses or not??

Oh I love her too, and totally agree she's a godsend. Was talking to a friend today wondering what she'll be advertising if she and the Senator lose -- Bob Dole did American Express and Viagra. Thinking the Governor and Todd are naturals for Budweiser.

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Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

I do!!! I'm also trying to figure out how she gets that hair do....what do they call it??? Upsweep??? I have heard it referred to as a beehive.

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Ok. . .I did some digging as to the etomology of the term "joe six pack"

It was first used by a columnist for the San Francisco Chronicle, Art Hoppe.
Art Hoppe - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It was in reference to something called the Joe-Six Pack News Conspiracy:

It [ the development of the Eyewitness News model ] covers the period between 1962 and 1971, when sociologists from the University of Chicago as a commercial pursuit established McHugh & Hoffman. Their ideas then contributed to a turning point in “downmarket” journalism called “Eyewitness News.” The account suggests that TV news has vital roots in the field of sociology. The sociologists had been baffled that broadcasters felt they were providing public service with newscasts that appealed only to the 25% of viewers with college degrees. They had questioned extensive coverage of government and politics. The research had shown that newsrooms should get out of government halls and into the domains where majority viewers had lived. Seen through history are several matters worthy of contemporary discussion. Among these is the claim, exhorted by the sociologists, that TV news cannot satisfy “one” American public. Another is the claim that sealed broadcasters’ acceptance of class theory, that by fitting news to the largest groups both profits and public service are achieved.

So as far as the origins of the word go, it means somebody without a college education.

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There you go again, ham, digging up facts.

Don't you know this is exactly why nobody here respects you??

The Merriam Webster one. I googled joe six pack definition.

lmao!!!!!!

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Just to be clear.

I think Sarah Palin is a gift. And she just keeps on giving.

I lurve her.

As far as the glasses, I don't like them. Don't like that hair either. Don't know why, but I don't.

Wouldn't make a judgment about a candidate based upon glasses and hairstyle though. If you do, glad I'm living in my universe where I think people focus on other things.

You think the glasses and the hairstyle are worth voting for? Good for you. But don't vote.

But back to Sarah Palin. Palin just wouldn't be brought up by Democrats so much if we didn't think she was a weak link. You might think that it is because she scares us, or she's intimidating, or has "gotten under our skin."

Embrace that like a blanket. Because if you think that Palin as a VP defines your ticket, and you want to ignore McCain (McCain, who?), that's fine.

I'm a Democrat. I believe in my party's platforms; I don't believe in yours.

So, I want to get my candidate elected. As such, I focus on the weakest possible point that gets my party elected. Currently, I think it is Palin. (I will concentrate on McCain if your party ever remembers that he exists).

And I love the fact that she is the party face.

You may think that I and others like me focus on her because we are scared. I'd ask you this. Do you think that we would roll over in the mud like a pig in heat about her if we really didn't like talking about her?

I think she is a dummy. I'd also like to get back to Obama vs. McCain, but frankly, as long as McCain defines his campaign by Sarah Palin, I'm going to be talking about Sarah Palin.

If you want to move me off this point, which I do think is a losing point for Republicans, you'll start advocating John McCain. And I will respond to that.

Sarah Palin seems like a good, well-meaning woman. Conservative. Very much out of her league.

To say that I focus on her, when all I said was that a phrase she used bugged me, namely "Joe Six Pack," was because she scared me, is ludicrious.

I think she is a perfectly fine human being. I am too actually.

As VP and possible president, my mind boggles. Where was John McCain's head?

Just bringing it back to topic, Joe Sixpack. Love it or hate it. Tell all here,

Danny, you are a much testier person than you were during the last election. I don't know what's happened in your life to make you so bitter, but it shows, and I'm sorry for you... whatever it is that's behind it.

It's great to believe in your party's platform. . .but a platform is just a promise.

Clinton's were going to give us universal health coverage. Did they?

How about this one. . .I know you remember this:
"Read my lips; no new taxes"
Nope again!

See, in order for a promise to be good you have to believe in the promisor's integrity. You have to believe that the promisor's intentions are true. You have to believe that the promisor is not corrupt. That's where I have a problem with Obama. I would vote for anybody and everybody else before I would ever vote for him. . .I don't care what he's promising.

He says he's going to tighten corporate tax loopholes for companies that offshore. . .but he's going to create jobs? Uh. . .that doesn't make any sense. He talks a lot of crap because he thinks it sounds good to the undereducated "Joe-six pack" voter.

Over time, companies with operations abroad have prospered and expanded in the U.S., while those without them have tended to fade away. You can't say that off-shoring is the problem, because companies locating outside the U.S. perform better at home. If we shut off foreign operations, we might well drive many of our multinationals to bankruptcy.

So what explains the advantage gained from locating production overseas?

The most powerful factor appears to be taxes. The U.S. has the highest corporate tax rate among the world's most developed economies. With a combined federal and state tax rate of 39.3 percent, the U.S. taxes corporations at a rate that is 10 percentage points higher than the average of other nations in the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

In a world of tight margins, a 10-percentage-point disadvantage is humongous. And the U.S. rate is well above that of countries such as Ireland, which has enjoyed an economic boom that coincided with a reduction in corporate taxes to 12.5 percent.

Let's Do It

When companies locate offshore, they can transfer much of their profits to foreign subsidiaries. Thus they avoid U.S. taxes until that time in the distant future when they ship the money home. This helps U.S. companies stay competitive vis-a-vis those already located in low-tax countries. It doesn't create many jobs in the U.S.

This is hardly a partisan issue. Indeed, Democratic Senator John Kerry wisely included a reduction in corporate taxes in his 2004 presidential platform.

Congress should adopt legislation to lower the tax, and the president should push for the move in his State of the Union address later this month. Unless we make a concerted effort to reduce the rate to something comparable to that of other developed nations, we can expect more bad jobs reports.

AEI - Short Publications - Let's Cut Corporate Taxes to Create More Jobs

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- George Orwell Animal Farm

Well, embrace the fact that in all the years that I have posted here, you are the first to post something that insulted me. And just me. Not my positions. Me.

I have to wonder what I did to deserve it. Certainly we have all gone round and round about candidates, positions, and platforms. That's fair game.

But here, you are insulting me.

Just me.

And what seems to be for no more reason that I'm more confrontational that I used to be.

You said that I was "testier" and you called me "bitter" and instead of addressing my point, you said that you feel "sorry for" me, and said that you "don't know what's happened in your life to make you so bitter, but it shows, and I'm sorry for you... whatever it is that's behind it."

I don't know any other way to say this.

I'm insulted. To respond to my points by saying that I'm bitter and that you are "sorry," while calling on our long mutual history on the board, is just really insulting to me, but also lacking in substance.

So, on your points, such as they are:

A testier a person, I will concede to. I've been posting here a long, long time. And I'm sick and tired of hearing the same old bitter sweet refrain. I played nice, and others did not. I minimized the differences between the parties, because I believed the parties could meet in the middle.

I still actually believe that.

But I don't think that others do. And I am now unwilling to pretend that they do.

And I'm not really much inclined to dance around things as I used to be. Nobody listened to me before when I danced around the issues and talked about our mutual areas of interest.

So, yeah, if "testier" means more upfront, I'm probably "testier" than I was four years ago. If something pisses me off, or someone said something foolish, I'll probably more likely to say so.

It's not like being delicate got me much before. It is also not like anyone else played by my song book.

I do not like this. I do not appreciate the refrain that "I don't know what's happened in your life to make you so bitter, but it shows, and I'm sorry for you... whatever it is that's behind it."

That's just cheap.

That just minimizes my arguments without confronting them. You are demeaning my position by telling me that I'm "bitter" and that you are "sorry" for me.

So, screw it. Let's just accept everything you say. According to you, I'm bitter. Apparently because something in my life has led me to post in a way that was more confrontational.

OK, it's all true!!! (Actually, it's not, but WTH? Why argue with certitude when it doesn't mean anything).

But, really, slinging "bitter" at me and telling me that you are "sorry" is just disgraceful. Its disengenuous.

And it is a piss poor way to respond to a position on the merits of the point in front of you.

Do you think, could you possibly think, it is because you can't support your candidate, so it is easier to attack persons who bear the flag for the other side? Because they are testy and bitter?

And really, feel sorry for me all you want.

I beieve in my candidate. I think he will win.

If you believe in your candidate, good for you. But I wonder. Maybe because I am bitter.

Well said, Dannyboy.

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Very well put Dannyboy.

Periodically, posters will presume to know facts about a person that they have no basis for. It comes at a time when it's apparent they have little else to say. The bitter, sorry, life words are reaching. Nothing more than trying to play cyber psychoanalyst and I totally agree with you.

dl

Dannyboy I agree totally with you post! Perfectly said!!

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Thanks danny for this post, all of those in the past, and in anticipation of many more in the days to come.

Can't resist adding I enjoy dannyboy in whup ass mode.

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Ana
The Republicans have been putting lipstick on a pig for 8 years. Is a pitbull wearing lipstick an attempt to keep us from noticing the pig?

Dannyboy,
You have put into intelligent, erudite words the thoughts of many here who have chosen to refrain from posting because of personal insults (in lieu of intelligent answers or res ponses) here. Just because you do not have 3 or 4 people jumping to your defense and attacking all who disagree with you, does not mean you are not supported--because you are. You and your intelligence and diplomatic approaches are respected by the silent majority on these boards. Thanks for putting into words so much of what we all believe but feel it is worthless to say here. You Rock!!

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"Yesterday is but a vision, and tomorrow is only a dream. But today well lived makes every yesterday a dream of happiness, and every tomorrow a dream of hope." Anonymous

"Your candle does not lose it's light by lighting another candle" Generosity

Have the courage to be yourself.

Rock on Dannyboy! Bitter? No, I don't think so. Sick to death of what has happened to our country under Bush's watch and unwilling to sit back and bear four more years of it? Hell yeah! I think you're like a good apple...a little tart, a little sweet, and always refreshing.

Maureen

You know what else bothered me? The winks were totally uncalled for. What was she trying to do?

Ditto all the above Dannyboy. You've been my hero for a long time.

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closed thread....post limit reached

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