It's not just "some." In Indidana 2100 out of 5000 so far.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkUKO...eature=related

And as far as your Mickey Mouse analogy...you don't even have to go to the polls. They vote by mail...absentee ballot. That was the problem here in Washington State in 2006. And you don't need to show photo ID. Whatever gave you that impression?? In fact, many groups are trying to get that required and guess who is trying to block that? ACORN! :vomit:

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

"The contrast between, on the one hand, the huge amount of material about Obama’s radical associations that has been published in on-line journals and in a few brave newspapers, and on the other the refusal by big media to address it and to vilify those who do, becomes more astounding by the day."

The Spectator

It's 4 percent. That's not a lot.

You read some radical right wing papers.

Most states don't allow first-time voters to vote absentee or require photo identification with first-time absentee ballot requests. For example, in Washington state: If you are voting for the first time in Washington and you did not meet the ID requirements when your registered to vote, include a copy of your ID with your absentee ballot application.

Also, the specific incident you reference in Washington State was when ACORN employees made up fake names and submitted registrations so that they could go home early and get high. Now, that's ridiculous and several of the felonies were convicted of registration fraud, but none of the fake registrants showed up to vote, absentee or otherwise. If they had, you would've heard about it. The fact is that there's never been a single instance of someone fraudulently registered by ACORN voting illegally. Never.

Where did you get that 4% number? In the CNN report it was ALL of the ones they have gone through in the last batch of 5000 from ACORN. . .which was 50% of that total.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

this is what happened in Houston, TX. People were going around in predominently elderly neighborhoods, and someone got them signed up to vote absentee. Then, when these people went to the polls, they were told they had already voted absentee.

I don't know if ACORN was involved, but, this does happen.

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Include all of it:

First-time voter ID requirements:
Federal law requires you to include your Washington state driver's license or State ID card number or the last four digits of your Social Security number. If you are registering for the first time in Washington, and you don't have any of these numbers, you must include a copy of your ID. If you don't, you'll need to provide ID the first time you vote in person or by absentee ballot. Acceptable ID includes:

a valid photo ID such as a driver's license, state ID card, student ID card, or tribal ID card
a current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, government check or other current government document that shows your name and address


Do you think if they are making up names that they aren't making up WA Driver's license numbers or social security numbers??

How to apply for an absentee ballot:

Absentee ballot applications are not available online. Contact your County Auditor (in person, by mail, by fax, or via email) to request an absentee ballot application. They will mail it to you once they confirm that you're registered. Complete the absentee ballot application and mail it back to your County Auditor.

If you are voting for the first time in Washington and you did not meet the ID requirements when your registered to vote, include a copy of your ID with your absentee ballot application. Acceptable ID includes:

a valid photo ID such as a driver's license, state ID card, student ID card, or tribal ID card
a current utility bill, bank statement, paycheck, government check or other current government document that shows your name and address

So if there are phony numbers that are not caught. . . they can vote absentee without showing a photo ID.

There is no way to prove that any of those fake absentee ballots did not get counted in the vote. As I'm sure you well know, the outside envelope gets seperated from the ballot. . . voting is completly anonymous. There is NO way to tell who is voting absentee. . .the only protection against fraud would be on the sending the ballots out end.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I used a calculator.

Yep. . .

There is no way in hell I will ever vote by mail. I understand that some people don't have a choice, but I won't do it! Ever not get something in the mail you were suppose to. . .ever send something to somebody that never got to it? There is no way to to be sure your vote counted.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

So you're saying that nefarious ACORN employees compiled a list of unregistered voters, forged their registrations, forged either utility bills, photo ids, bank statement, or paycheck originating at various legitimate addresses (required to request and receive an absentee ballot in the mail) and then sent in absentee ballots for how many fake voters now? Do you realize how much money you'd have to pay all of the employees in this operation to keep their mouths shut? What about the legitimate residents of all of your phony addresses? What about the time involved in concocting and executing this scheme? Now, realize that the amount of money it "costs" per vote in get out the vote operations is infinitely cheaper than the lower end of the cost of such fraud.

You're alleging a crime that there's zero evidence suggesting ever happened, and all the reason in the world suggests that it would be ridiculous to even attempt anything like that. Don't forget that ACORN also had to pay off the folks who were charged with felony registration fraud to keep their mouths shut about this cover-up, too!

It's obviously a lot more logical to think that ACORN paid folks to say they were getting high instead of registering voters and then do hard time on felony charges while this illicit cover-up to submit illegal absentee ballots continued rather than pay attention to Occam's razor and realize that ACORN simply hired idiots who got high instead of registering voters.

Where are you getting all that? On the registration form where they get to make up names and addresses, they also make up WA driver's liscense numbers or last 4-digits of a social security numbers. They don't need photo ID or utility bills. . .et al.

Nobody paid anybody off. . .ACORN pays cons on work release and other people down on their luck who are desperate for money, minimum wage to turn in completed voter registrations. They don't give a rats ass about the validity of those registrations. . .proven by the fact, that they are now under investigation in many states. AND the poor schmucks that worked for them have been convicted and ACORN has had to pay fines. They created this pay for registrations scheme. . . they set it up in a way that is ripe for fraud to happen. It's really a perfect scheme for ACORN. . .they get to blame it all on their employees while knowingly pushing for it.

How about this. . .make it illegal for anybody to pay for voter registration drives? There are certainly volunteer drives that work well and nobody is preventing anybody from just going to register to vote on their own.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Great. . .show us your numbers and sources.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

To register, that's what you need. To request an absentee ballot without having voted in person before, you need to submit appropriate identification. Also, absentee ballots need to be sent to a legitimate address, which implies exactly the convoluted mechanism of fraud that I detailed if you suspect that ACORN is registering fake voters, requesting absentee ballots for them, and mailing them in. Suffice to say, it's a stupid and completely unworkable way to steal an election, and it's particularly unbelievable in the absence of any evidence to back up claims of fraud. Remember that folks who were convicted of registration fraud in this case certainly had every incentive to turn on ACORN in a plea bargain, but no one did.

Show me where it says that is what you need to register. It's not! You provide your WA state driver's liscence number or the last 4 digits of your social secuity card number. And you only have to provide the ID for an absentee ballot if you didn't provide those numbers when you registered. Nice try.

There has been tons of eveidence of fraud . . .

Felony charges filed against 7 in state's biggest case of voter-registration fraud
By Keith Ervin

Seattle Times staff reporter

Related

WA court: Felons can't vote until legal fines paid
King and Pierce County prosecutors filed felony charges today against seven people who allegedly committed the biggest voter-registration fraud in state history.

The defendants, who were paid employees and supervisors of ACORN, the Association of Community Organizations for Reform Now, concocted the scheme as an easy way to get paid, not as an attempt to influence the outcome of elections, King County Prosecuting Attorney Dan Satterberg said.

"This was an act of vandalism upon the voter rolls of King County," Satterberg said.

In addition to filing criminal charges, Satterberg said state and local officials had signed a five-year agreement with ACORN that requires the organization to beef up its training and procedures for detecting and reporting fraud.

ACORN agreed to pay King County $25,000 for its investigative costs and acknowledged that the national organization could be subject to criminal prosecution if fraud occurs again.

"Ladies and gentlemen, this is the worst case of voter-registration fraud in the history of the state of Washington. There has been nothing comparable to this," state Secretary of State Sam Reed said at a news conference with Satterberg, King County Executive Ron Sims and Acting U.S. Attorney Jeff Sullivan.

ACORN President Maude Hurd said in a statement, "It appears that a handful of temporary workers were trying to get paid for work they hadn't actually done. While we don't think the intent or the result of their actions was to allow any ineligible person to vote, these employees defrauded ACORN and imposed a burden on the time and resources of registrars and law enforcement."

The announcement of criminal charges came after the King County Canvassing Board revoked 1,762 allegedly fraudulent voter registrations submitted by ACORN employees.

Senior Deputy Prosecuting Attorney Stephen Hobbs told the board that six ACORN workers had admitted filling out registration forms with names they found in phone books last October. The canvassers filled out the forms while sitting around a table at the downtown Seattle Public Library, Hobbs said.

County prosecutors charged the six canvassers with one to eight counts each of filing false information on voter registration, and charged a supervisor with providing false information and making a false statement to a public official.

Two of the ACORN workers were also charged in Pierce County with submitting 55 phony registrations.

ACORN canvassers in other states also have been the subject of investigation

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Voter registration fraud is a whole different thing than actual Voter fraud. Those employees of Acorn were lazy bums who did not want to do the work required of them. They turned in phony voter registrations to receive a paycheck. Most of them not only wont show up to vote as the phony people but most likely won't show up to vote as themselves. As for absentee ballots. It is easy to check ss numbers and drivers license numbers for legitimacy.

Now what we really need to be concerned with is voter caging. Heres a video by NOW which is part of PBS. Info on voter caging starts around 2 minutes in to the video.

Video: Voter Caging . NOW | PBS

Another link with interesting info.

Voter Caging . NOW | PBS

I mean that the information you posted (4 SS# digits, DL#) is required to register. I don't know how you'd manage to get a valid state ID or Social Security number without having a valid photo ID; do you?

Lastly, yes there is evidence (and convictions) of voter-registration fraud. This fraud was found to have been in the form of ACORN employees getting high in lieu of registering voters. My point is that there's zero evidence of a single fraudulent vote being cast.

It's worth noting that Republicans always make noises about voter fraud, and usually complain about ACORN, every two years between September and November. It might sound like news right now, but this is no different than complaints against ACORN 2, 4, 6, and 8 years ago. Guess what: in each of those years investigations were made into ACORN's activities and they've never been found to have engaged in election fraud. Not once.

Remember all the to-do about US States Attorneys being fired a couple years ago? Remember how it was found that they were politically motivated firings? In almost every case, it was found that the attorneys involved had refused to play ball with the Republicans and make phony charges of election fraud just like the ones we're seeing today.

Funny you should mention this. See my links above or read this.

Interview: David Iglesias . NOW | PBS

They don't put valid WA drivers liscenses numbers or SS#'s. That's the point. They are fraudulent. They make them up. . .just like the names and addresses.

And yes. . .you can't prove fraudulent voting on absentee ballots. As the ballots come in they are checked for the signature on the outside of the envelope. . . then seperated, ballot from envelope. No way anymore of telling that the ballot came from a fraudulently obtained absentee ballot.

Oh BUT there have been all kinds of messy things. . .and yes, voter fraud:

He wasn't kidding. During the two recounts, Mr. Logan's office discovered 566 "erroneously rejected" absentee ballots, plus another 150 uncounted ones that turned up in a warehouse. Evidence surfaced that dead people had "exercised their right to vote"; documentation was presented that 900 felons in King County alone had illegally voted and that military ballots were sent out too late to be counted. A total of 700 provisional ballots had been fed into voting machines before officials had determined their validity. In the four previous November elections, King County workers had never mishandled more than nine provisional ballots in a single election.

What's more, the state's current widespread use of mail-in ballots provided an excuse for Kathy Haigh, chairman of the House committee overseeing election laws, to strip the election reform bill of a requirement that voters show photo ID at the polls. "Sixty-eight percent of the people are voting by mail," she explained. "When do they have to show ID? They don't, they have to sign." Precisely, which is a reason that expanding mail-in elections would only increase the potential for fraud.


John Fund on the Trail - WSJ.com

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I recently changed my address and got a call from the city board of elections verifying that I was who I said I was. I assume that the various county boards of elections in Washington are armed with a computer that lists motor vehicles records to double check this information.

There are countless that don't leave physical evidence that are investigated and prosecuted. What's more, with ACORN employees being convicted of registration fraud, there are plenty of potential targets for plea bargains to work your way up the hierarchy of this organization that's supposedly orchestrating voter fraud. What came of that?

None of those are examples of voter fraud; the felons voting thing could be if there was a deliberate attempt to sneak felons past registration laws, but there wasn't. You appear to be in Washington state; I'm sorry that your elections officials are incompetent - perhaps you should get involved in elections for county clerk or whatever official is responsible for these things in your neck of the woods if you're so concerned. It would be a much more effective way to address these concerns than focusing on ACORN, who has nothing to do with and who will be forgotten about on November 6 only to return again in two years.

I've never gotten a call and I have moved before. Are you suggesting that we hire enough people to call everyone that submits a voter registration or changes their address? What ACORN does, as in the case in the CNN link, is hold a large number of voter registrations till the last minute then dumps them on elections boards that are then expected to work around the clock to verify them. In that case the first 2500 out of the 5000 that got dumped on them from ACORN have been fraudulent. . .that's not a very good record. And heaven forbid you have a valid one stuck in that heap of garbage. . .you may not get yours validated in time to vote.

Maybe you don't get it. Nobody at ACORN told these people to make up registrations. . .they are too smart for that. BUT they certainly created the system in which it is happening and they KNOW it's happening and not really doing anything to prevent it. ACORN is on a quota system. . .they know it is unrealistic for these employees to meet those quotas. But they get to wash their hands of any responsibility? They had to pay the state of WA $25,000 and are under a 5yr agreement for being able to still operate in this state.


Yes. . .ACORN employees knowingly registered felons that are not legally able to vote. . .dead people too. And just how do you suppose I know so much about this particular topic? I focus on ACORN beacuse they are the problem. Other voter registration drives do not employ the tactics they do, nor cause the problems they do. And nobody in Washington has forgotten about the voter fraud that happened here in 2006. . .trust me.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

"I did a quick search of the internet using the New Orleans address of ACORN. Guess what I found? Almost three hundred organizations connected to ACORN. Well, I would like you to look at the following list of ACORN related organizations that share the same address as ACORN. TWO HUNDRED AND NINETY FOUR names. Got that?

This is a tangled web that defies the ability of any one person or organization to figure out who is working for whom. Carnival workers use three cups on a table to trick the public into guessing where they hid the pea. Here ACORN has 290 plus “cups” to use to hide their financial and organizational shenanigans."

Obama’s Campaign Lies About ACORN : NO QUARTER

OH but not in Ohio! The brain child of Jamie Gorelick in training aka Jennier Brunner..you could register & vote on the same day, no proof of identification! ACORN was busing people by the thousands! THOSE votes will not be repealed, there is no way for it to be done before the election.

Reminds me of the last Bush election in Ohio where they conveniently "found" over 1,000 votes that somehow didn't make it in the pile on election day.

Again, nope, not in Ohio, not this year thanks to corruption at it's finest, secretary of the state Jennifer Brunner.


The number of voters who registered & voted in that window it was available was 50 THOUSAND!

MY GF's son, down at Ohio State, he & his GF were approached by ACORN to register, ok, they both did, they then started pressuring them to get on the bus to go vote..they said they wanted to wait. This went on for over 45 minutes. Those ACORN members followed them to the point that they were afraid of them!

I actually heard your Secretary of State on the radio two weeks ago and she seemed very well informed and ready to tackle the problems in the Ohio election system that were rampant in 2004 with long lines, not enough ballots, etc.

As far as I'm aware, a Secretary of State isn't responsible for same-day registration laws, and it's not like those laws don't have the same ID requirements as any other voter registration process in Ohio.

Do you take that website seriously? The proprietor of that site, Larry Johnson, is on record stating that there's a tape with Michelle Obama ranting against "Whitey" and that Barack Obama hangs out with Louis Farrakhan and all sorts of stuff that hasn't had any relation to, you know, reality. He makes stuff up and pretends he's an expert on everything for a living.