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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2008, 06:10 PM
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According to Palin, not all bombers are created equal...

...depends on whether or not they agree with her politics.

Abortion clinic bombers not terrorists, Palin says - Yahoo! News

Maureen
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Old 10-24-2008, 06:23 PM
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But she looked so pretty trying to avoid the question!
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  #3 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2008, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by TheMoMo View Post
...depends on whether or not they agree with her politics.

Abortion clinic bombers not terrorists, Palin says - Yahoo! News

Maureen
Well, that applies to both sides then. Lots of people, even on this board have tried to justify Ayres actions. Mostly likely because they agree with his politics.

Terrorism is also a form of unconventional warfare and psychological warfare. The word is politically and emotionally charged, and this greatly compounds the difficulty of providing a precise definition. One 1988 study by the US Army found that over 100 definitions of the word "terrorism" have been used.A person who practices terrorism is a terrorist. The concept of terrorism is itself controversial because it is often used by states to delegitimize political opponents, and thus legitimize the state's own use of terror against those opponents.

Btw. . . I think blowing up anything for political reasons is an act of terrorism. It's actually kind of interesting that some people will call it patriotism depending on whether or not they share the same views as the terrorists. A fine fuzzy line there between the two.
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  #4 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2008, 08:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hambirg View Post
Well, that applies to both sides then. Lots of people, even on this board have tried to justify Ayres actions. Mostly likely because they agree with his politics.

Terrorism is also a form of unconventional warfare and psychological warfare. The word is politically and emotionally charged, and this greatly compounds the difficulty of providing a precise definition. One 1988 study by the US Army found that over 100 definitions of the word "terrorism" have been used.A person who practices terrorism is a terrorist. The concept of terrorism is itself controversial because it is often used by states to delegitimize political opponents, and thus legitimize the state's own use of terror against those opponents.

Btw. . . I think blowing up anything for politicalcould very well insert "RELIGIOUS" reasons is an act of terrorism. It's actually kind of interesting that some people will call it patriotism depending on whether or not they share the same views as the terrorists. A fine fuzzy line there between the two.

An act of violence to prove you (general sense) are right, is terrorism. Plain and simple. Doesn't matter what subject is...
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  #5 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2008, 09:26 PM
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I agree - the line is fuzzy and dependent upon who you are.

There is a segment of the American population (which probably includes Mr. Wright from Chicago) who thinks the 9/11 terrorists were heros, religious martyrs, victims of America's global policies who were getting just payback, etc., and doesn't consider them terrorists.

To me - and I would hope to most Americans - they are terrorists of the highest order.
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2008, 10:00 PM
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I absolutely consider what Ayers did in the 60s to be terrorism...there is no other word for it. I simply don't think that his actions then are relevant to someone who was 8 when he did them and (I'm pretty sure) had an alibi...like school, or bedtime.

She's just pandering to her funformentals right-wing Christian base...if she makes them mad, who will be left? There aren't that many hockey moms in the country.

Maureen
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2008, 10:13 PM
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Mo, you know I love ya, but I don't think she's pandering. I think she is anti-abortion and it's as difficult for her - on an emotional level - to face the fact that people who share her views about that topic are so bad that they need to be forced to wear the label "terrorist."

I think that Obama faces the same emotional reaction when people call Ayers a terrorist.

I realize Obama was eight when Ayers and his wife were tossing bombs at some of our treasured governmental facilities, but even today Ayers stands by his actions. He has no regrets and openly says so.

There are not enough years that could ever, ever pass that would allow me to have a fundraising coffee in Osama Bin Laden's living room as a fundraiser if I was running for the bridge club president, much less launch a political career I wanted to take to a national scale. If McCain had launched his career in the living room of a former KKK leader who still stood by his actions and still lived a racist life, we wouldn't - and shouldn't - dismiss it.

Obama wrote a blurb in the cover of Ayers book. He was more than 'just a guy in the neighborhood.' They traveled in the same circles in Chicago politics. Organizations that embraced Obama were also organizations that embraced Ayers.

What all do they have in common that makes them have so many *people* and *causes* in common?

I do think that's a legitimate question. If the answers are dead ends, so be it.
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Old 10-24-2008, 11:11 PM
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Originally Posted by wowitsdark View Post
Mo, you know I love ya, but I don't think she's pandering. I think she is anti-abortion and it's as difficult for her - on an emotional level - to face the fact that people who share her views about that topic are so bad that they need to be forced to wear the label "terrorist."

I think that Obama faces the same emotional reaction when people call Ayers a terrorist.

I realize Obama was eight when Ayers and his wife were tossing bombs at some of our treasured governmental facilities, but even today Ayers stands by his actions. He has no regrets and openly says so.

There are not enough years that could ever, ever pass that would allow me to have a fundraising coffee in Osama Bin Laden's living room as a fundraiser if I was running for the bridge club president, much less launch a political career I wanted to take to a national scale. If McCain had launched his career in the living room of a former KKK leader who still stood by his actions and still lived a racist life, we wouldn't - and shouldn't - dismiss it.

Obama wrote a blurb in the cover of Ayers book. He was more than 'just a guy in the neighborhood.' They traveled in the same circles in Chicago politics. Organizations that embraced Obama were also organizations that embraced Ayers.

What all do they have in common that makes them have so many *people* and *causes* in common?

I do think that's a legitimate question. If the answers are dead ends, so be it.
I'm certain Mo will respond to your post since it was directed to her but there are so many inaccuracies in what you have said I feel the need to respond.

l. Senator Obama did not write a blurb for a book by Mr. Ayers.

2. Mr. Ayers did not launch the Senator's political career.

As an aside, G. Gordon Liddy, convicted felon who once tutored his radio show listeners on how to shoot ATF agents did in fact host a fundraiser for Senator McCain in the not too distant past but I digress ....

3. Mr. Ayers and Senator Obama have nothing in common except they were both members of a board headed by a close friend of President Reagan.

There is no there there. You (the general you) can repeat these inaccuracies over and over again but that doesn't and never will make them true as much as you might wish it so.
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 10-24-2008, 11:16 PM
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As can you, Ana. As can you.....

I did some googling and I slightly mis-spoke about the book blurb. He didn't write it and it wasn't on the cover of the book, but he did give the Chicago Tribune his take on Ayer's book, and that blurb was then published.



As to launching his political career at Ayer's house... he did. From Obama once visited '60s radicals - Ben Smith - Politico.com :

Quote:
“I can remember being one of a small group of people who came to Bill Ayers’ house to learn that Alice Palmer was stepping down from the senate and running for Congress,” said Dr. Quentin Young, a prominent Chicago physician and advocate for single-payer health care, of the informal gathering at the home of Ayers and his wife, Dohrn. “[Palmer] identified [Obama] as her successor.”
Finally, I do think they have more in common than liberals would like to embrace. When Michele Obama was working as a lawyer for a Chicago hosiptal, she put together a panel of people for a forum she hosted. Both her husband and Ayers were on that panel. Ayers, in his book, noted all the progressive people who lived near him:

Quote:
"Our neighbors include Muhammad Ali, former mayor Eugene Sawyer, poets Gwendolyn Brooks and Elizabeth Alexander, and writer Barack Obama. Minister Louis Farrakhan lives a block from our home and adds, we think, a unique dimension to the idea of 'safe neighborhood watch': the Fruit of Islam, his security force, has an eye on things twenty-four-hours a day."
Besides serving on two boards with Ayers, Obama was in charge of doling out funds for a foundation - the Annenberg Foundation - for which he was chairman, which is no small deal. He allocated $50 MILLION DOLLARS (yes, million ) to a Bill Ayers project that centered around getting a United Nations-themed curriculum in the public schools of Chicago. That, to me, is a very politically-motivated move on Ayers part, and Obama threw him a boatload of money to accomplish that particular political perspective.

And no, this link is not to Fox: http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/10/...iref=hpmostpop

ETA: I did not say Mr. Ayers launched Obama's political career. I said it was launched in Ayers living room, and clearly, it was. If you look back up at the quote I gave, in context, what was happening was that a state senator was stepping down and naming Obama as her defacto successor. Bill Ayers and his 'convicted for terrorism' wife hosted that function in their living room. Like-minded financial supporters of the senator were introduced to Obama and encouraged to support him as he ran to fill the seat she was vacating.

Last edited by wowitsdark; 10-25-2008 at 12:02 AM.
  #10 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2008, 03:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marilynk View Post
An act of violence to prove you (general sense) are right, is terrorism. Plain and simple. Doesn't matter what subject is...
Isn't that what I just said?
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Last edited by hambirg; 10-25-2008 at 03:52 AM.
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 10-25-2008, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by hambirg View Post
Well, that applies to both sides then. Lots of people, even on this board have tried to justify Ayres actions. Mostly likely because they agree with his politics.
Name one person on this board who tried to justify Ayres' actions.
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