One has to wonder....

There are so many radical leftists who have had their fingers in the pot in Chicago politics and educational circles. I mentioned in another thread the $50M the Annenberg Foundation (Project? I forget...) gave to Bill Ayers towards implementing a "United Nations"-baesd curriculum in Chicago schools. There are so very many, very active, very committed leftists who are working tirelessly, it seems, on making their mark on the youth of Chicago, and they have been for many years. From Ayers to Farakan (sp?) to Obama on down (and I realize they don't all agree on everything), millions of dollars and years of service have been put towards *change* in Chicago.

And yet... they boast the number one murder rate in America.
cbs2chicago.com - Chicago Beats New York, Los Angeles In Murders

I don't have any answers here... just questions.

If, in that large microcosm of America, where they have had such power, influence, and money, these people do not appear to have been able to effect a solid change in the behaviors or economic futures of the people they serve.... what does that say? So much time, money, thought, effort, and seemingly effortless politicking took place so that leftists could adheive what they believed to be educational utopia.

And yet for all that work, the poor remain poor, test scores remain low, and violent crime is at an all time hgh. Obviously, either their vision didn't work, or they didn't implement it well.

Oh come on now. . .nobody wants to here about how ineffective they've been! Just wait til Obama gets in office. He's going to do all the things he's promised but as of yet has never been able to deliver.

Don't bother us with silly facts or records. . .sheesh. . .what's wrong with you?

Don't you know that they really care?! Nevermind that they spend all those big Fed dollars on "studies" and "programs" that never produce any results. The big government types need to skim off all that money without producing anything. They know what they are doing sooo much more than any private sector organizations. .. like Habitat for Humanity. . .that actually get things done with their limited resources.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Just a quick question....

You are both residents of Cook County right? No? Oh...

But, you both at least lived there for a while? No? Oh...

So, you never went to a Chicago Public School? Used the public transportation system? Visited the museums more than just on an occasional visit to the town? You never paid taxes there (other than maybe sales tax when you came and visited the city)? Well, you at least read the Trib or the Sun Times on a regular basis (other than using via google when you need a negative quote)? No???

Interesting.

So, in the interest of sounding a little harsh, you don't know the first thing about Chicago and/or the change that's gone on there. You don't like it....don't go there.

And more importantly, don't use it for your bitter fodder. It just oozes of desperation.

__________________
I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

I've visited Chicago once - just this year in fact - and really enjoyed it. Did the museums, saw a musical downtown, shopped 'til I dropped. It was a great city and I hope our whole family can visit together before any of the kids graduate and leave home.

The statistics bear out that in the area of Chicago I was referencing (perhaps not clearly enough) - the south side - where the 'great thinkers' have been given many years, many dollars, and much control, they haven't been able to change what's going on on a broad scale, and in fact it has gotten worse in that time. It's like there was a grand experiment going on with some pretty committed thinkers who were given a lot of resources... but after 20 - 30 years, that area of the city has had more murders, more poverty, and more drop-outs than ever before.

I think - just my own personal assumption here - that we've glorified education and presumed that if anyone could just get their fingers in the school systems that they could foster these huge behavioral changes. Unfortunately, I think that unless a child has had a firm foundation at home, a foundation that includes basic life skills and values, that no amount of educational indoctrination will be enough to change an entire society. I know we like to blame it on poverty.... but I don't think it's a poverty of money that is at the root of it all. There have been lots of impoverished societies that didn't have these issues, and in fact the opposite was true - people pulled together to survive and endure. I think it's a poverty of values, of value for one another, of the value of parental involvement and direction and commitment... I think those are the qualities that are sorely missing from such populations.

Again, I've not lived in Chicago. I do have a bit of experience - not a lot, but several months worth - in inner city school work in another metropolatin area, an area much smaller than Chicago but still certainly large enough to have what could be deemed 'inner city'. I worked in one school that was neighborhood-based, and another where the experiment of bussing was going on. Sadly, even within the bussing-based population you could identify the inner-city kids quickly, and the fact that they attended school for seven hours a day with kids whose backgrounds were 'tamer' didn't change much for them. They remained in a social circle with one another. The inner city kids got on the bus at the same bus stop and spent two hours together riding the city. They got off the bus together and then hung out together. They hung together at recess and lunch. The experiment that was meant to integrate kids from all walks of life really didn't change who gravitated to whom, and the inner city kids (regardless of race) were more likely to drop out, less likely to have parents show up for conferences, less likely to get their homework done... ever. It made me ache for them because you felt like you could see into their futures, and no matter how many hugs you gave them you knew you were still going to hear about the chain fight they had when they got off the bus when they showed up with bruises and welts. And the strictly inner-city school where no bussing took place wasn't much different.

There were poor kids in our school systems who didn't display those behaviors, but they came from different geographic areas of the city. There were simply some neighborhoods where drug use, violence, and fatherlessness were rampant, and sadly, the kids from those areas perpetuated the cycle.

No, not Chicago... but what I read about that area of Chicago sounds like what I saw, and on a much larger scale.

And what I am saying is that it appears that the left have not been able to change things, even though they seem to have been given much opportunity, time, and money to attempt to do so.

I don't know that the *right* has a solution, either.

Reading about Chicago, and actually being a part of the community are two different things.

If you had been working in our schools over the last 10 years....yes inner-city south side is part of that....you would see that the efforts being made aren't a left or right thing. Paid teachers and vols like me (I have no children, but I not only helped to raise money and equipment, mentor, teach english as a second language to parents, and worked with big brother's/big sisters inside the schools) might see it a little different than someone like you...only reading about it. Maybe if you read a little more before you passed judgement, you would see it for what it really is.

John Simmons, author of Breaking Through: Transforming Urban School Districts, took a close look at schools all over the country...including Boston, Houston, and Chicago. He determined that over the the past 20 years, Chicago has been home to more innovation in public education than any other city in the nation. No city has shown the improvement we have seen here. It has been far from perfect, but the trend line has been going up. He can be quoted in saying "What this means is that once the political smoke clears, any city -- or president-elect -- looking for research-based ways to improve public education should turn to Chicago for lessons in how to do it right."

As for murders and crime...there is no doubt that the southern part of the city still has issues, as does some of the west and a few neighborhoods to the north. The sub-burbs of Chicago have expanded so rapidly in the last 20 years, it's put an enormous amount of strain on the city itself, yet growth and reform are still happening.

Here is an excellent example....check out City Crime Rankings by Population Group. I just moved to Richmond, VA...which shows up as the #9 most dangerous city based on crime and population...it's right up there with DC, Detroit, Atlanta...and Miami and Oakland aren't far behind. Where is Chicago on that list? It isn't. It didn't even make the top 25. It didn't even make the top 10 of cities with 500k or more.

It doesn't matter if you are in Chicago, Little Rock, Seattle, Wasillia, or wherever....just because you offer help doesn't mean people are going to take it. It doesn't mean that everyone will have the same respect for their community. The whole "if you build it, they will come" theory is crap at times. People are fundamentally flawed...and when you have a large population living in one area, chance are the flawed ones with stand out more, because there is a larger number.

So, cut the crap....your statement isn't about Chicago, it's a dig at Obama. Again, bitter fodder. But, what you didn't consider is that it's also a dig at people like me.

Maybe you should take a look at Pheonix (that would be #10 on the list of over 500k pop) -- yah, that's in AZ, right? Oh now, we couldn't do that, that's your guys state.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

METROPOLITAN AREAS - MOST DANGEROUS

1 Detroit-Livonia-Dearborn, MI M.D.
2 Memphis, TN-MS-AR
3 Sumter, SC
4 Fairbanks, AK
5 New Orleans, LA
6 Miami-Dade County, FL M.D.
7 Myrtle Beach, SC
8 Las Vegas-Paradise, NV
9 Victoria, TX
10 Florence, SC
11 Stockton, CA
12 Shreveport-Bossier City, LA
13 Pine Bluff, AR
14 Lafayette, LA
15 Jackson, MS
16 Saginaw, MI
17 Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale, AZ
18 Tucson, AZ
19 Los Angeles County, CA M.D.
20 Baltimore-Towson, MD
21 Albuquerque, NM
22 Vineland, NJ
23 Montgomery, AL
24 Little Rock, AR
25 Charleston-North Charleston, SC

City Crime Rankings by Population Group

Just like all those posters on here that live in Alaska. . .right?

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

This original post is nothing but failed veiled blatant racism. Total trash.

Now CBS is racist?

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

One of the most blatant examples of greed gone awry in the last year came from sweet, sweet Arizona, home of John McCain. It is almost a morality play, except that in most morality plays, good wins out in the end.

Failed Lender Played Regulatory Angles - WSJ.com

As far as good winning out in the end, that is where this morality play breaks down.

Mr. Lamb will take a few months off, and go skiing. We'll bail him out, or help bail out the bank that bailed him out.

This happened in McCain's backyard.

Nope, the OP.

First of all, this post wasn't about Alaska. It was about the city of Chicago. But, it wasn't really about Chicago...it was just an attempt to bash Obama (again)...but, this time it was personal. The commentary questions "so very many, very active, very committed leftists who are working tirelessly, it seems, on making their mark on the youth of Chicago, and they have been for many years" only later to say these same people have not been "able to effect a solid change in the behaviors or economic futures of the people they serve.... what does that say?"

Second of all, if I were paying taxes in the state of Alaska, I might have something to say about how things are done - but, I don't live there and never plan to. If that's your community, good for you. I still pay taxes in Chicago, so I have something to say about it.

Lastly, I don't think any of the posts in this thread are racist. Bigoted, yes. Racist, no. Desperate fodder, yes. Racist, no.

"A bigot is a person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own, and bigotry is the corresponding state of mind. Bigot is often used as a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false or not universally applicable or acceptable."

In defense of Wowitsdark, I don't think the intent of the post was to come across as bigoted, and based on the response I read, it looks like Wow has some valid points about CPS and Chicago politics. But, visiting once and reading some articles does not give you the full flavor of a community. All dense urban areas have similar problems, and some smaller towns struggle just the same. And like Wow implied at the end of the last post, when it comes to some of the truly ugly issues, the "right"might not be able to do it any better than the "left." It's why people are starting to cross party lines to get things done....it's time for a shift.

As one of those "lefties" whose spent most of her life in Chicago and still calls it "home" all I have to say to you Joe Alaska is "get off my lawn" and go build a bridge or something.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

That's all fair and good. I was just pointing out that you seem offended that Chicago outsiders would be critical of things happening there. It happens all the time. Lots of people that don't live in Alaska have had a lot to say about the things that have happened there. Just like people that don't live in Washington state have had things to say about the ACORN mess that happened here. There are posters on here from Alaska, if your opinion about Chicago counts more, then their's should count more respectively. If it applies to one than it should apply to all. That's all.

I don't find her post bigoted. . .just pointing out that politicians that promise to do so much haven't been very effective in the past is in no way bigoted. Anything that McCain has promised and has been ineffective at is fair game too. But simply calling racist everytime somebody is critical of Obama really serves no purpose. It would be like calling everybody that criticizes Palin a sexist. I don't believe that to be true at all. Again. . .if it applies to one then it applies to all.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Gosh, I feel awful that I haven't warned my niece, who not only LIVES in Chicago, but actually goes to school at that hotbed of terrorism, the University of Illinios at Chicago. Guess I'll have to revoke her Thanksgiving dinner invite . . .

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Reading is Fundamental.

Using your train of thought then Obama is responsible for Rezko, Conrad Black. . . do I need to keep going?

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

My response wasn't directed to posters from Alaska. Just to you. Because you were the only one that chose to jump on the "nanny nanny boo boo" wagon and support a generalization on a city and it's people.

And the bigoted part....yah, that was you, too.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

Actually, no, because that was my point. I do think that McCain was complicit in this whole financial fiasco, but pointing solely to the **** in his state, and saying, "look, look, this shows that he's not worthy," isn't really very bright unless you can link his policy decisions to the eventual morass.

Saying that crime has risen in Chicago, and therefore, Obama wasn't a very good community organizer or state legisator, is just a stupid statement, IMHO.

Pointing out the supposed crime rate in Chicago is just a dumb talking point, IMHO. I can counter that Wassila is the meth capital of the world, or in at least Alaska, which borders Canada and Russa. And don't you know, we are now talking foreign affairs.

My only point was that this was shallow reasoning. If you agree, we are on the same page.

Ok. . .I can agree with that. I still think there is some valididty in saying, "Hey they have spent a lot of money doing what they claim will help and it hasn't really helped." Take the DARE program, sounds like a great idea, but it's been shown it's an ineffective program. Why pour more money into it? I think we have a right as citizens to question how effective these "programs" that are using federal tax dollars are working. If what they have tried to do in Chicago isn't working, why not study how New York City was able to make the changes they did instead of spending more money on ineffective programs?

I think the issue with Obama is because he is holding those things up as part of his campaign. . ."look what I did in Chicago." In reality. . .he wasn't very effective in producing any significant results. It's valid to look at that and question whether or not he will be effective in the future. If you don't want people to scrutinize what you did, then don't make it part of your campaign.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Generalizations? What generalizations? It looks like statistics to me. I'm sorry if you don't like what those statistics are for your city.

I'm not sure how that makes me a bigot. . . but I'm not surprised at all that you would through that in there. . . .it's predictable.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Please see above for your generalizations....

Ineffective. Never produce any results. Skim without producing anything.

For someone who cries "facts facts, gimme the stats" all the time, I don't see anything here but snarky, shallow generalizations - all from someone who doesn't live or work in the community. You don't like Obama, fine. You don't think he was effective in Chicago, fine. But, don't lump everyone working in the public sector under your "liberal hating" umbrella. There are some fine, dedicated people in Chicago working in public office that work hard everyday and thousands of people who would contradict your statement and say "yes, that they really care and have made a difference in their lives."

Oh, and I don't mind for a second being called predictable. It's no secret that I don't play favorites around here, and I'm nothing short of honest. If there is something you don't understand about "a pejorative term against a person who is obstinately devoted to prejudices even when these views are challenged or proven to be false" then I don't know what you do other than tell you to hit Webster's on some of the bigger words.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

And here I thought this was going to be about Jennifer Hudson's family. That was a horrible tragedy.

Ok, back to our regularly scheduled debating and politicing.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Wasn't that awful about her family?

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GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Yes, and I think it was her brother they suspect or her cousin or something. Some family member, anyway. And, the 7yo nephew is missing. Ughh.... then, I just read about the news person from Arkansas that got beat, has died. WHAT is going on with people????

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I read somewhere that it could be the general feel of the country right now....depression, conflict, etc due to the economy, the war, just the general bad feelings. Everyone is stressed and I don''t think the election is helping KWIM?

Awful. Here we had a man recently knock his baby's head on the wall, killing it all because the baby wouldn't lay still while changing his diaper.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Great. . .then give me one example of a federal program in Chicago that Obama is responsible for that has been effective. . . .just one. Maybe you should read that again because nobody was talking about individuals working in the public sector. In the OP's post she clearly refers to some of the "power players" that have gotten big Fed dollars, but yet haven't been effective. So show me what "perjorative term" I used and please show me where anybody proved me false. . . .

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I was wondering if there has been any word on the little boy. How sad.

usamom,

This came up on another board I post at, and this is how I kind of feel about what you said above. Albeit horrible things, I don't think any otherwise sane person is going to hurt or kill a family member because of the general feel of the country. I think it starts taking away from the personally responsibilty of the perpatrator when we start talking about it in those terms. For example, the man that you talk about that did that to his baby is solely responsible for what he did.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Sure, I know that the people who do the crime are personally responsible for their actions, but I think that what I read has to do with when people are stressed because of a loss of jobs, poverty, the stresses of an uncertain future they are more apt to do things that ordianarily might not do. It isn't a pass, I just thought it was an interesting thing to think about. KWIM?

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

I don't doubt it being related to the state of things right now. They are saying the world is basically in recession. I just don't even listen to much TV and when the news part comes on the radio I switch to another station. It seems all you hear is doom and gloom, from the economy to murders. You just don't hear about places where new jobs are coming (we have a few here) or about people doing good deeds. Sadly, these things don't "sell".

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

You're right. Good news is missing from the news some of the time. Maybe because good things are supposed to happen and terrble things are not so they report it so much. We as a people are not interested really in good news which is why we rubber neck at car accidents. I guess it is a way of reassuring ourselves that our life is good. KWIM?

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/