http://a1611.g.akamai.net/f/1611/235...8_tax_plan.mp3

This is from the Dave Ramsey web site.



Today on my way to lunch, I passed a homeless guy with a sign saying "Vote for Obama! I need the money!". Once inside the restaurant, my server had an Obama08 tie. When the bill came I decided to not tip the server and explained I was exploring the Obama redistribution of wealth concept. He stood there in disbelief while I explained I was going to redistribute his tip to someone I deemed more in need, the homeless guy outside. The server angrily stormed out of my sight. I went outside and gave the guy $10 and told him to thank the server inside, as I've decided he could use the money more. The homeless guy was grateful. At the end of my rather unscientific redistribution experiment, I realized the homeless guy was grateful for the money he didn't earn, but the server was pretty angry that I gave away the money that he did earn, even though the recipient needed the money more.

I guess redistribution of wealth is easier to swallow in concept, than in practical application.

Here's one I received today:

Notice to All Employees

As of November 5, 2008, when President Obama is officially elected
into office, our company will install a few new policies which are in
keeping with his new, inspiring issues of change and fairness:

1. All sales people will be pooling their sales and bonuses into a
common pool that will be divided equally between all of you. This
will serve to give those of you who are underachieving a “fair
shake.”

2. All low level workers will be pooling their wages, including
overtime, into a common pool, dividing it equally amongst
yourselves. This will help those who are “too busy for overtime” to
reap the rewards from those who have more spare time and can
work extra hours.

3. All top management will now be referred to as “the government.”
We will not participate in this “pooling” experience because the law
doesn't apply to us.

4. The “government” will give eloquent speeches to all employees
every week, encouraging it's workers to continue to work hard “for
the good of all.”

5. The employees will be thrilled with these new policies because it's
“good to spread the wealth.” Those of you who have underachieved
will finally get an opportunity; those of you who have worked hard
and had success will feel more “patriotic.”

6. The last few people who were hired should clean out their desks.
Don't feel bad, though, because President Obama will give you free
healthcare, free handouts, free oil for heating your home, free food
stamps, and he'll let you stay in your home for as long as you want
even if you can't pay your mortgage. If you appeal directly to our
democratic congress, you might even get a free flat screen TV and
a coupon for free haircuts (shouldn't all Americans be entitled to
nice looking hair?) !!!

If for any reason you are not happy with the new policies, you may
want to rethink your vote on November 4th.

Your really dont have a clue what his tax plan is. The middle class of this country has been destroy over the past 8 years. It is almost gone. Obama wants to go back to a tax rate that was inplace before George Bush.

I do know that his tax plan will stress many small businesses, which are the lifeblood for jobs in these United States.

With those businesses failing or laying off, it won't matter if the "worker" would get a better tax deal. They won't have a job to file taxes on! The "Making Work" tax credit of 500 and 1000 won't matter cause it will only apply to workers. Without a job, you won't get it.

I fear the bottom line is what he is proposing to spend more than he would take in, which won't help our federal deficit at all.

By targeting the bottom feeders of the tax scale, it is almost like another form of welfare. We, at the cost of those who work and pay taxes would be giving even more money to those who don't work at all. I am not meaning the elderly and the disabled. I have no problem helping them out, but it grinds me to give more of my hard earned money to those just sitting around popping out kids and collecting money on those who work their butts off.

Why, specifically, do you think that he will hurt small business?

As far as "bottom feeders," what does that mean? Is there an income base on this? Who are bottom feeders to you? Those families who earn under $20,000? $40,000? $60,000? $75,000?

Those families are my friends and neighbors. I'd never consider them "bottom feeders." I consider them hard working, and more deserving of a tax break than others.

Just let me know at what income level someone is no longer a "bottom feeder." Because I've apparently been operating under the misunderstanding that folks working hard for a living are just working hard for their living. I missed the class on how some of them are "bottom feeders."

Bottom feeders????????He is trying to bring back the MIDDLE CLASS not welfare!!!!Go to his site and look at his plans.
Mccain is saying small business that and this, 98% of small business makes less than the 250,000 for Obamas tax increase.
He is just bringing the tax rate before Bush took office. To the upper 5% of the tax payers.

Query: What exactly is the middle-class in this country?? Because I know damn sure we're not rich and I'll tell you what. We're doing pretty darn good, thank you very much. We bust our butts but we are able to pay all of our bills, feed and clothe our kids, etc. Quite frankly, I don't know anybody who has been "destroyed" financially over the last eight years unless they've made poor financial decisions. Could you elaborate on who you think the middle class is?

__________________
Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

You know famililes making $20,000 do not end up paying federal income tax. In fact they not only get refunds, they get earned income credit.

__________________
Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

They make money without doing anything to earn it?

Just like all those Alaskans getting that oil money check.

I'm no plumber, but that sounds like socialism to me.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

So you're saying making money without doing anything to earn it is socialism? Your words.
It seems Obama wants to take from some and give to others who aren't out there earning it.
Will that help them, or just keep them where they are? Why should they work?
Why should the middle class try harder?
I think it said everyone in Alaska gets an equal amount, that doesn't seem to be taking from
some and giving to others.

What Alaska does is take from the federal taxpayer -- me and you -- so it can distribute to the Alaskans. When Trak, Bristol, Willow and Piper get checks, they've taken from me.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

You do know that the EIC was started under (gasp...could it be???) a REPUBLICAN president??? And then expanded under uber-Republican Reagan (who described it as “the best anti-poverty, the best pro-family, the best job-creation measure to come out of Congress.” )??? But this is Socialism (or it is if Obama mentions it) so that means we've been a Socialist country for over 30 years while under predominantly Republican rule. And yet this is the first election where the term "Socialist" has been bandied about. How very Rovian.

Maureen

http://www.alaskaneconomy.uaa.alaska...an_econdev.pdf

hth

Thought I made it clear that I am not talking about the working class, just those who sit around and do nothing but collect, and are not disabled or the elderly.

As for hurting small business - his business health tax is one reason, in addition to no business tax breaks and everything else, it could very well be the straw that breaks the camels back for many businesses that are barely hanging on.

I am thinking about the impact on the many business owners out there, it won't effect the businesses we own directly since we pay the dental and health insurance in full for our full time employees. The business tax needs a decrease since the US is the 2nd highest in business tax rates. There is no incentive for anyone to start up a business here.

Correct 43.4 million Americans do not pay any federal income tax, which about 40% of filers. (Info from 2006 taxes)

When Obama says that 95% will get tax breaks, that doesn't ad up, Considering only about 60% pay taxes. You shouldn't get rewards for something you don't even pay into. Under Obama's plan, the 40% will still get a break. That is income redistribution

So, when you take from the business and individuals that pay, and give it to those who don't is basically Marxism.

http://So, when you take from the bu...cally Marxism.



So the Palin operation is Marxism, not socialism. Thanks for clearing that up. Because that's EXACTLY what happens in Alaska.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

Dont you live in Alaska?

Middle class to me is people making 50-150,000. My family falls into this. Glad you are doing good(I am not being snarky) We bust our butts also. That is just it, you shouldnt have to work your butts off just to feed, clothe and afford a house. There should be extra. What happens if you or you husband gets sick??? Do you have the 6 months salary in the bank? What happens if God forbid your child gets sick. My niece had cancer. Do you know how much one shot cost? One shot cost 1200. They have almost 100,000 in debt from her cancer. Thank God she is in remission. Went to college she had a full scholarship. But books and room and board about 10,000 a year...so now they have almost 200,00 in debt. Her son is in college-he did not get a scholarship his education is going to be about 30,000 a year. My sister and her husband have work. My brother in law was in the military for 12 years. They had money for the kids college and a savings, my niece got sick and it is all gone......

Before you ask my brother in law left the milatary because my sister was prego with 2nd child and did not want to be moving them all around.

Oh, I fully agree. I think we should stop the EIC and institute a flat rate tax across the board. That way everyone would pay their fair share.

__________________
Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

Yes, we currently live in Alaska although we've been stationed all over the US. We make far less than $150,000 too. You should have to work your butt off to live a good life - it's more appreciated that way. We've been able to contribute to our retirement despite not being rich. If my child gets sick we go to the doctor. And, yes I do know about cancer costs. My mother currently has lung cancer, has had two brain tumors removed and been through chemo and radiation. Fortunately, she also served her country so she has VA benefits. As for college, what's wrong with working and paying one's own way through college? The parents don't necessarily have to underwrite their children's education. That was their choice. There are scholarships, student loans, and not to mention the very generous education benefits provided by the military. Our country has so many options available, we should be thankful rather than complaining. Your BIL would have benefitted his family by staying the military as his family would have medical benefits and a retirement. Moving around can be a pain but it also allows families to experience all different parts of the country and after a while, you get used to it and usally look forward to it when it's time to move on.

So how would Obama being in office changed your family's situation? I see the problem is that your BIL quit the military before securing a job w/ medical insurance? Is that right? Perhaps that was not the best choice he could have made for his family. Again, as I said in my earlier post, I do not know any families who have been destroyed financially over the last eight years, unless they made poor choices.

__________________
Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

No he did not quit the military before he secure a job with medical insurance. He had a great job when he left the military had that job until 2002-company closed. He left the militry early 90's. It was the best choice to leave the military. When he found another job, the insurance did not pick up for 6 months. He got laid off around Christmas time 2002, my niece had gotten sick about the same time with a sore throat, and yes they did take her to the doctor At first they thought it was a throat infection, kept her antibiotic until Feb. The mass on her neck kept growing and growing. They sent her for a biopsy early March, that is when they found out it was cancer.

Again like I said your are lucky that you dont know families losing everything....because of job loss, sickness, or even divorce. I have a Aunt in Ohio and she told me it is really bad up there. Stores boarded up houses empty......I live close to DC we never seen homeless people in this area.......now we are starting to see them.

People working should not have to choose if they are going to buy food, or pay thier gas and electric bill. I dont mind working but the past 8 years everthing has went up, and our pay has not kept up.

I am truly shocked at your statement. Do you at least own a TV? The economy has tanked and you say it is because we made poor choices.

Well we are not all young enough to be able to have military housing and military health care. We are some of the lucky ones who pay $300 per month in medical insurance (for one person) with a $5,000 deductible. We are some of the lucky ones who made the poor choice of purchasing a home and still pay on our mortgage without the help of the government and the price of our investment declining.

So, yes, there are a lot of us out here that made poor choices - in your world. Just keep those blinders on.

You aren't the only one! Ohio is full of fine families financially devastated by this economy even though they have followed all of the "rules". Google Hoover Co. , Rubbermaid, any of the steel companies, heck even try Diebold and Timken. Poor choices, my freakin' butt!!! These people have worked their collective a$$es off for 30 or more years and invested their retirement funds and savings exactly how idiots like Dave Ramsey and Suze Orman have advised them to do it. It only took 8 years to undo every bit of progress. Bin Laden got everything he ever wished for.

__________________
* Sometimes I dance in the boat..... just to rock it. *

Yes. . .I feel for your family. How very tragic (not being snarky at all). But why do you think things are so very expensive? Think back to day before everything was regulated by the federal government. . .doctors used to serve their communities being paid sometimes with food and livestock. . .those days are gone. I'm going to share something very personal. . .when I seperated from my husband who was very abusive. . .I applied for assistance because my kids needed medical and I had been a stay at home mom for 7 years. My house payment was $712. I was told they couldn't help me bacause I was living above my means. . .the cut off for housing expenses for 4 people was $680. Now mind you. . .I looked at apartments. . .you can't find a 3 bedroom in my area for less that $1200. So, I was being responsible trying to stay in my house. Our government isn't really trying to really help anyone. They are trying to control them. I could have moved into subsidized housing that would have cost more and would have been elegible. It just doesn't make sense to punish the people that are trying to be responsible.

I agree with you completely, that we should be helping people like your sister's family, but that is not what is happening in this country. What is happening is that we are helping people that know how to work the system. I know first hand. My son's father is on SSI. Yes he has cancer. . .a form of it that he has to have surgery about once every 3 years to remove non-invasive tumors. He works the system so much that it would make the average person sick. He can work. . . . he is skilled and he does work under the table. But he also spends the majority of his time getting high and trying to figure out how he can get high. He goes to doctors and complains about pain only to turn around and sell those pain killers on the street. I can't say that I blame him personally as much as I blame the system that allows this.

There is a man that goes to my parish, I've never hidden the fact that I'm Catholic, Wayne Mangan. His family is the all American family. He is so good looking and charismatic. They have done so much! He has devoted his life and the bone marrow drives for him have been the most succesful in the nation. That, my good people,is what it is all about! And not what the government does for you, but what the good people can do.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I'm not. It only shows that republicans really are out of touch. A little while back on the TC board someone asked "are there really were people without heath insurance" and another stated she was tired people saying that they "worked there asses off" because she didn't personally know anyone who worked a hard job.

__________________
Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

Nope, changes nothing about what I said.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

It seems to me that when conservatives/Republicans need help, there's nothing wrong with it, they're not deadbeats or bottom feeders or working the system, but when Democrats or liberals need help, then those people are the lowest form of parasite on the system.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

My statement stands. I, as in ME, do not know any families PERSONALLY who have been "decimated" financially during the last eight years, unless they made poor decisions. I'm sorry, do I need your approval before I post a PERSONAL OBSERVATION? Did I claim that families have not suffered? NO. Perhaps before posting a knee-jerk response to a post you should really READ it.

During the last eight years, the economy has done very well. The unemployment rate has been very, very low. Have companies closed? Absolutely. Moreover, more will close when Obama is elected due to his taxing plan. Even Obama, in how own words, said that opening a coal burning plant would bankrupt a company.

Grumpy - I feel for your family, I truly do. I'm so very thankful my mom does have the VA for her medical expenses. Even with those benefits, she no longer has her own place to live as she cannot work so she's been living with us and before that with my sister. It's a bad situation but I don't see how that is the Bush admin's fault. Moreover, I don't see how if Obama were in office that her situation would improve.

__________________
Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

Yes, the economy's been gangbusters over the past few months. GANGBUSTERS.

__________________

Reading is Fundamental.

Fron the LA Times.
Employers slashed 84,000 jobs in August, steeper cuts than analysts expected. The unexpected jump in unemployment -- from 5.7% in July to 6.1% in August -- provided prime fodder for both presidential nominees as the fall campaign season kicked into high gear




U.S. unemployment rate hits 6.1%, highest level in five years - Los Angeles Times

Yes and my statement stands as well. You are sadly sadly out of touch with what has happened in the last 6 months. This will be one of the major highlights of George Bush's career.

Traci, you also get BAH which pays for your housing or a portion of it, if you live on base, you don't pay for utilities except for long distance, if I am not mistaken as well. Your food is not taxed and is usually 20% less at the commissary so your money goes a bit further than mine. Perhaps this is why you do not see the destruction of the middle class and those who are not doing as well financially.

Those people around you also live and work on base and they have the same benefits you do. They also live rent free and have free medical and dental as you do. There are plenty of people in the civilian world who do not have the same benefits and do feel that the economy is crap and it isn't due to choices they have made unless it was the choice not to go into the military.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

The only families in my neighborhood who have foreclosed bought houses they couldn't afford. My husband has worked his ass off the past 8 years and we are better off than we were 8 years ago. We take big vacations, have everything we need and give more to charity in one year than Biden has in three. That's the American Dream. That's what I want for my children. Bad things happen, but hey that's life. Big girls don't cry. One week after we moved into our house my husband's company closed down his office. Neither of us had a job. We didn't complain. My husband searched for a job and got one in a month. Unlike, Democrats we don't want to be a ward of the government.

Please, don't generalize. I do not want to be a ward of the government. I feel for you that you did not have a job and when you were collecting unemployment, I am sure you were looking for a job like I would be. I will not say everyone is like that but I do have compassion for people in that situation. I have been lucky to have a husband who makes a very good salary and I will admit that his salary does not go as far as I imagined it would when years ago I would think about making as much as he is now and dream that we would have everything we could ever need. We don't live lavishly and we are not doing as well dollar for dollar as we were a few years ago. If you do not have the same experiences, you have been blessed but there are more than a few who have had the misfortune to be a victim of the economy, lose their job, find their 401K destroyed, find themselves unemployed and on the street and it isn't because they want to be wards of the government.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

You don't have to be young to be in the military, depending on what your definition is. The military health care is so so and housing usually substandard, if you can get in after being on a list. Although many bases are now selling out to private contractors and the housing is NOW up to par with other housing in the local area.

Each and every person serving in the military earns what they "get" and it's not enough. This is old stuff, but maybe not to you and a few others. Rarely do our active duty get to pick where they live, the hours, days, and locations they work, nor the separations for tdy's and remote assignemnts from their families. There is more, but I will stop there and move on to civilians.

From what I have experienced, it is poor choices being made by people. Perhaps if the 2 new suv's weren't considered a necessity, the newest cell phones every couple of months, nail jobs, name brand clothing, eating out, gadgets, etc, etc then people COULD afford the house (that perhaps they paid too much for to start).

It's no longer keeping up with the Jones family, it's keeping ahead of them. And that is what is doing people in, they won't do without or cut back in order to afford what they can. They think they are entitled to everything and it just isn't working.

dl

Thank you for your post, it confirms what mine said. I referred to the LAST EIGHT YEARS, not the last few months regarding the economy.

__________________
Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

Again, I said last eight years...next.

__________________
Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

Whoa. Let's get something staight - we get nothing for FREE. My husband busts his ass 365/24/7 being in the Army. Your son, a Marine, does too, Nita. They are gone a lot, they risk life and limb, etc. I think they work for every benefit they get, don't you? Yes, we have benefits but by God, they are earned, not given. Moreover, I am from Anchorage. Do you think all my friends, not to mention my family, are all military? No. I also have friends and family in other states as well, such as OK and PA. Yet none of them have been "destroyed" over the last eight years, in fact we've prospered thankfully. I know from past postings, you and your family have done pretty well too the last eight years. Do you personnally know a family who has been destroyed over the last eight years due to the Bush economy?

Edited to add: Nita, for the record, there was a time when my husband was out of the Army. He did what he could do to take care of his family - he sucked up his pride and worked as a security guard and then delivered pizza at night while he was waiting to get back in the Army. Yet we still managed to get by. We had a modest house in NC and didn't live beyond our means.

__________________
Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

Ya' know? We are far better off financially now than we were 8 years ago. Of course, we've made some really big decisions. We moved from the DFW area, to Montana. I went back to work. We bought a house (yep, we had a risky ARM--knew what we were getting into when we did it, refi'd at the 2 year mark). We have worked to better ourself! 8 years ago we were on WIC. 8 years ago we had one vehicle--now we have 3, 2 of which are paid off.

I don't like Bush--think he's a boob at best! I think the war we are in is an atrocity beyond atrocities. But, to blame the current economic state all on Bush is ludicrous....to me it seems the cycle of economics. You know "what goes up, must come down"...

But, that's just me. Of course, I very well could be wrong.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

That's great and inspiring. It shows that we can control our future and if we are healthy and able, we can succeed.

I find it amusing that somebody had to give me negative feedback calling me mean-spirited because I posted about my own personal observations over the last eight years. Maybe if I lied and said I did know somebody who had been destroyed financially I would have gotten positive feedback?

__________________
Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

I didn't say that it was free, Traci. What I was pointing out is that to say that your life has not been affected by the downturn in the economy is probably true because you are not affected by the raised cost of food, housing and utilities which all have risen during the last few years and which has caused the failure of many budgets of the middle class families. In other words, the very things which have broken many middle class family's budgets do not affect your budget.

My life has certainly gotten better on paper by the raises my husband has recieved during the past eight years but I would also like to point out that we are barely keeping up with inflation. As pointed out in my previous posts, the money he makes now does not go as far as it would have eight years ago. We are about the same place we were eight years ago financially.

I do personally know people who have been destroyed financially in the last eight years. Their company has closed, they had to move, they had to declare bankruptcy and take a job at a lesser salary. So, I would say that they have been destroyed. Yeah, that would be a good word to use.

As for the way you took my comment. It was not meant snarky. It was meant to mean to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges. My son is a Marine. I grew up in a military family. I know from what I speak. Military families have perks that others have to pay for. Those things are expensive on the outside. Lights, heat, food, health care are things that you do not have to worry about, along with a cost of living raise pretty much gauranteed each year. Not every year but pretty almost. Not everyone else can say that. I can't say that. We haven't had a cost of living raise in three years. Many middle class families haven't had it either. So to say that you haven't experienced the downturn in the economy or the destruction of the middle class, you have to admit that your middle class is different than the middle class of a person who worked for, say the auto industry.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

Ummm.....just about any healthy male or female could get cheaper lights, heat, food, and health care along w/ a cost of living raise if they were to but sign up for the military.

While a military family making the same as a civi family moneywise, the military gives up some things that a civi family takes for granted---like daddy being home for birthdays, Christmas, etc.

So, while the military may have the better financial situation due to base housing, COLIs, guaranteed health care, etc. they give up a lot of things for those "things". KWIM?

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

Sure but it is not exactly the same thing to claim that you haven't noticed any change and in fact gotten better over the last few years which of course means that anyone who hasn't had the same affect is doing something wrong or is being lazy or whatever is not being judged by the same measuring stick, KWIM?

If I made the amount of money we make now and I didn't have a house payment, or had to pay for heat or got a break on my groceries, then I would be living pretty well and more than likely would say that I didn't see a problem with the economy. Just wanted to set the record straight.

You cannot say that there are no problems in the economy if you are not "in" the economy. There is a different way of life in the military, financially. There are plenty of military people who are on foodstamps because their salary doesn't go very far.

A civilian family making the same amount of money a military family does is not the same thing. Apples to apples and oranges to oranges. All I am saying.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

I understand what you're saying, I just don't agree. We'll agree to disagree.

__________________
Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

But who claimed there hasn't been any change in the economy? I said over the last eight years, it's been a great economy, that's a fact. I also said that in the last eight years, we have also been out of the military. I think I know of what I speak - both in and out of the military. My sister is lower middle class. In the last eight years, she was able to purchase a home, pay off her vehicle, etc. My SIL lives in Pittsburgh (I think you may recall some of my Pgh in-law horror stories, lol). They bought a house, got a new vehicle, went on vacation w/ us, etc. My cousin lives here in Anchorage. They bought a beautiful house. None of those families are military. I'm not saying that in every case there is a lack of trying should a family suffer financially. There are always extenuating circumstances. But, again if you are healthy and able, there is no reason not to succeed in our country.

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Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

Okay, you are right. The economy is sound. All the people who have lost their jobs, have declared insolvency, those who have homes which are in forclosure, people who are financially striuggling are just figments of the imagination. All the people who are losing their homes bought homes out of their financial range.

Some people have done everything right. They bought a home within their income range, they live withint their means. But when they economy tanked and it did, and they lost their job and the jobs out there do not pay what they were making before, they now have financial troubles and have their homes in forclosure. To say that those people who have money problems are due to their own fault and poor money decisions is in my opinion wrong.

I am happy for you Traci that you are not having any of the troubles the rest of the country seems to be having. I hope it always is so. I know that it is by the grace of God that I am doing okay but with one action (the loss of a job), we could be facing foreclosure or worse. It won't be because of any poor planning or poor decisions on our part but on things that would be out of our control.

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GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother
God Bless the USA!!!!! Praying for my Youngster son at United States Naval Academy, class of 2014!!

http://mylifeundertheabaya.blogspot.com/

I wanted to set a few things straight. I know it means nothing in regards to the election, but, I don't want people to get the wrong impression. Please understand, you do not get FREE housing in the military. If you wish to live in base housing, you go on a list if there is nothing available. In the meantime, you are given a Housing Allowance, based on your rank. Once you get into housing, you lose the Housing Allowance. Housing is now privatized and you are required to pay utilities if you go over the alloted amount for your family. Oh, and let's not forget...housing has not always been very nice, so it's not like the gov't hands over a nice little mcmansion to you. Also, I wanted to clear up the impression that you get the housing allowance along with the housing. NOPE, it's one or the other. And, most times, your housing allowance doesn't cover your rent, let alone utilities, if you live in the civilian community. You still pay phone and cable regardless of where you live.

Ha, the grocery benefit. We are charged a 5% surcharge. No, not a tax, but, still, it's 5% of your ENTIRE BILL. Factor this in, and your so called savings are deminished. Also, not every area has a close commissary. They don't put them on every corner like your local grocery store. Mine is almost 20 miles each way. Needless to say, I don't shop there often. Watching the sales and shopping smart, I do better out in town shopping.

Medical, that is not free, depending on the type of plan that you choose. Dental is not free.

Let's not forget all the moving that we get to do, and all the damage that occurs to our belongings, and the big hassle we have to file a claim for reimbursement for damages.....the uprooting of the kids, the lack of being able to get seniority at a job for the spouse......yes, the list of "freebies' goes on.

We are not out of touch with the "middle class". And, as far as military on food stamps....IMO, there is no reason for it. I have seen active duty on FREE LUNCH......not some new enlistee either. Why??? Well, they live in Base Housing, hence show no "BAH", so, that appears to reduce their income. There are ways around the system, and sadly, some have no problem manipulating it for their own gain.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

To usnamon....we did not collect unemployment. We used our savings.
To military....thank you for your sacrafices, My family sleeps soundly at night knowing you are there for us