Here we have Sarah Palin who claims to be pro-life yet we also have Sarah Palin she is anti abortion and in favor of the death penalty. Only if she could give the same respect and diginity to all human life can they be considered pro-life. The label pro-life cannot be applied to someone like Palin who hunts for the sports of the game , who denies those suffering from incuriable diseases the promise of stem -cell research may provide and who shows no empathy for a rape victim. likely to be further traumatized by being forced to bring an unwanted pregnancy to term. There live would be traumatized forever knowing how this sad baby was conceived. This contradicts respect for the sanctity of life. It is time to end this hyppocrsiy of Sarah Palin....... She seems to want to have her cake and eat it too... Anyone in my views to hunts and kills animals just for fun and them poses for pictures with the dead animal truly sad...... Catherine

I know you were talking about a rape victim, but all I could think about was her daughter..... Discuss.......

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Can you with 100% certainty that she hunts them purely for sport? Does she shoot them and then let the animal carcas rot? Or does she either use the meat to feed her family, or possibly to feed those less fortunate?

Hunting is a way to help keep animal population under control. Without hunting, certain populations of animals would overrun the human population. In fact, if you care you read more about that, I will supply you with links to our local newspaper which details how our local police department had to kill around 50 of the local deer herd because the deer were so prolific that they were overtaking the city.(all 50 deer were processed and the meat given to the local food share---most wild game is actually leaner and healthier than beef)

Dislike Palin for her stance on abortion, economics, or whatever, but your argument about hunting is weak. It shows that you haven't fully researched the topic.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

(responding to "ILUVLUCY420")

You do not understand hunters.
A true hunter only kills to use the meat. Hunters do pose for pictures, some even have the animals stuffed after taking the meat.
Hunters are some of the best caretakes of the country. They do not destroy the woods. They want the game (animals) to have a good habitat.
Living up in "the mountains" a lot of people hunt/fish to provide food for their families. It is not a game to some it is how they survive.

I now quite a bit about hunting and have eaten my fair share of game....both from bow and rifle.

Can't say that any of it was shot from a helicopter.

You think that MIGHT cross the line between survival and sport?

Just a thought.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

And you have hunted in Alaska? If you have, then you know the difficulties and challenges you face in Alaska. I didn't fully appreciate the challenges because I was raised and taught to hunt in the South. Here in Montana we have some pretty unique challenges for hunters. Terrain and weather play a huge factor. Also, big game hunting is a major draw for our state--which it is for Alaska as well.
Sport hunting is not necessarily a bad thing. As long as the meat is put to use by those who need it, I don't care. Game hunting is a legitimate and fairly simple way to cull a herd. As long as it's done legally(that is).
Not all hunters do it for survival--some do it for the sport. They eat and use the meat, but they don't do it for survival. Generally those who hunt are pretty good stewards of the land, as well.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

do you eat meat? they have to kill that for you to eat it. they don't just give them a shot to kill them. this is a week agrument. as someone else said sounds like desperation.

Oh lordy....

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Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

This got me thinking....

A good steak and a ride in a helicopter. Hmmmm.

I know what to put on my Birthday list now!

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

I was just waiting for someone to bring up the subject of me eating me and the answer is no no no I have not eaten meat since I was 19 years old. I did continue to eat seafood till I was 25 and then stopped it all. So i sincerely hoped that answered your question, because I knew it was just a matter of time before someone would ask that stupid question. Now as far as other people eating meat thats a personal choice, for survival to eat meat if you like to eat meat and cannot live off of a vegetarian lifestyle then thats ok for you , however to just go out and hunt for the sport is truly sad. Do you not think that those animals that are being hunted just for the sport is fair and decent, its not, its truly pathetic.So to me she Sarah Palin cannot claim to be pro-life and be a hunter which she has claimed and said so many times. Also as far as a rape victim , there we go again for me personally, being raped againist your will by a complete stranger and then finding out your pregnant, do you seriuosly think you could carry that baby and be the best mommy in the world knowing how that baby was conceived, I know I could not, again I am pro-choice but again I am so againist anyone killing animals just for the sport, those animals feel pain just like us..... Catherine

Marilynk did you forget the famous photo taken of her and her younger dd when they posted in back of the dead caribou she killed. Do you claim I do not know what I am speaking of, also there was a phote some time back when we all first heard of SaraH Palin and it showed her parents home which had tons of animals heads on the walls........ Do you seriously think she is doing it for the food, yeah right... Catherine

So now you're anti-cannibal too?









And for the record, Catherine, people do hunt and then keep the hides, heads, etc. Her freezer is stocked w/ fish and moose meat. I've seen it on the local news. They are like many of us Alaskans. We use the food that God gave us (fish, moose, etc.) .

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Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

Oooh, now you are on to something...

Surf, Turf AND a helicopter!

Wow, this birthday is getting better and better! Keep the ideas coming.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

So, what do you suggest as a means of herd/population control?
Many states, mine included, utilize game hunting as an effective and inexpensive form of population control. How many "tags" are issued are proportionate to the population of the specific game (be it bear--brown, black and grizzly-, mule deer, white tail deer, antelope, moose, elk, etc.).
Many states, mine included, depend on the revenue raised by out-of-state hunters (HUGE revenue for Montana--we have some of the best big game hunting) to finance wild-life preservation areas, Parks and Wildlife, state owned campgrounds and lakes/recreation areas, etc.

Sport hunting is what it is---I have yet to see food wasted by any hunters! They either use/eat it themselves, or they donate to a local food share program.
I don't give a rat's behind whether you eat meat or not. If you know anything about wildlife and preservation of wildlife, you will know that hunting is necessary. You are clearly showing your ignorance on the subject matter. You would do well to hush up now before you further embarass yourself.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

marilynk to you , you do not own the boards so sorry to inform you of this, so do not tell me to be quiet before I further embrass myself. If you simply go to wikipedia you will read this for yourself,,,,"Predator Control" aka Palin's Predator Control Policy... In 2007 Palin supported a 2003 Alaska Department of Fish and Game Policy allowing the hunting of wolves from the air part of a predator control progtam intended to to increase moose and caribou populations for subsistence food gatherers and other HUNTERS, In MArch 2007, Palins office announced that a bounty of 150 per wolf would be paid to the 180 volunteer pilots and gnnners, to offset fuel costs. Oh how sad too much fuel used to hunt down those poor innocent wolves... Wildlife activists sues the state, and the a state judge declared the bounty illegal on the basis that a bounty would have be offered by the board of game and not by the department of fish Game..If you go further and view the you tube you will see all these innocent wolves being killed and many of them only being short once to suffer and die.... Catherine

Catherine,

Those poor wolves were decimating the moose and caribou population. Do you not care about those poor animals? Moreover, those poor wolves are starting to migrate into town. My friend was out walking her dog right here on post and was stalked by a pack of wolves! Fortunately, she didn't panic and had bear spray on her. That same pack of poor wolves terrorized the community of Eagle River by entering peoples' yards and eating their poor pets. Another couple was out walking their dog when the dog decided to check out something in the brush. The next thing they heard a yelp and then nothing. The next morning, they found part of the dog's colloar and some intestines. Poor wolves, indeed.

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Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

8-28-2008, 12:45 AM

ILUVLUCY420
Ultimate Member

Join Date: May 2000
Location: Long Island New York
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omg ladies thanks for all the input, I deeply appreciate it, I am glad we are not the only ones who have realized how bad soda is for us and that we can live with out it. I have always been a heathy eater, we eat alot of fish, vegatables and salad, i simply love salads, Now the only thing I have to work on is lowering the amount of sugar I put into my hot tea which I love to death, any ideas on how to cut down peace to all. Catherine

OMG! You're laughable.
Lady, I live in the land of wolves. I know more about how a large pack of wolves can decimate not only wildlife, but also cattle. Wolves are predators. Sometimes large packs have to be culled. Poor innocent wolves, my ass! They are beautiful creatures, but allowed to procreate without some sort of control would create havoc in the ecosystems.

And look, answer the question I put to you: Barring hunting, please provide your recommendations for population control for large game.

Lady, you are from New York City (per your own statements)--I won't try to discuss traffic control in large cities, because I have no knowledge about large cities! Don't try to discuss hunting when you have no frame of reference for it.

I don't need youtube.com. I have seen FWP dart and remove bear, mountain lion, moose and elk from city limits. I have also seen them have to put down the same because there is nowhere to take them, or because they have no fear of humans. I have had deer looking in my front door (6 of them 1 big buck and 5 does). My children have been subjected to a school lock down because a mountain lion came down to feed. We have had a bear less than a mile from our house! I live in Montana--wildlife is a way of life here. You have absolutely little to no knowledge on the actuality of hunting/wildlife preservation.

ETA: Well of course hunters sometimes keep trophies! It is a sport to some. But, by the flip side, many keep a skin/hide, a head or antlers because of some sort of significance.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

This is not meant to be snarky....just to play devil's advocate on this one (and no pun intended)...

Isn't a contradiction to say you are Pro-Life if you aren't looking at all "Life" the same? Should it be Pro-Life-Except for things that taste good, can't outrun a bullet, or make cute shoes? Or Pro-Life-Unless it's a Child Molester and then it is okay to fry him. Or Pro-Life Except of course you are raped or might die, and then we'll let you do it, but you will still burn in hell? There is kind of a gray area there.

Also, wouldn't the whole animals thing fall under "God's Will?" Animals, living in the wild, doing their thing. Not to get all biblical on you, because normally I wouldn't go there, but because many Pro-Life people take that stance because of religious influence, I beg the question, why is human life more important?

From the book of Genesis to the book of Revelation, the bible accords animals an exalted place in Creation. It is the only sacred text of any major religion which proclaims that both animals and human beings are nefesh chaya: living souls. And just as the first book of the bible juxtaposes the appearance of humans and nonhumans at the dawn of creation, the last book unites them in heavenly places. The book of Revelation repeatedly places both human and nonhuman creatures around the throne of God, at a time when the Lord "shall wipe away all tears." (Revelation 4:6-11; 5:6-14; 6:1-7)

So, why are the wolves less important than us? So, I guess what I'm trying to say is that Lucy kinda has a point....if you call yourself Pro-Life, you should be able to walk the walk. Right?

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

ok first to BLueskeyes, you quoted my comments about not drinking soda and you also quoted my comments about how we me me and my whole family eat. Did I ever personally say in that quote I ate fish, no I did not , I said we meaning family as a whole my husband and my son and my 2 dd's. so where did I personally say I Catherine eats fish??? Nice try but its not working. Ok now Getting back to Sarah Palin posing with her younger dd over the kill of the caribou, killing a animal that never had a chance and you all seriously think she was teaching how to kill for food, yeah right... So its ok to hunt and kill animals for fun, but its not ok to terminate a pregnancy because of a horrible rape or incest caused at the hands of a relative. You are all seriuosly telling me your ok with this>>>.Here we are in 2008 might actually rule the world as our president is way to scary for me.. Also hunting for the sport of it is simply inhumane at all costs, you do not go out and kill people for sport, why would should you kill a innocent animal..... Catherine

even the Bible references killing and eating meat/fish. Of course, the Old Testament also says it's ok to kill other humans under certain circumstances.

And if you want to talk God's Will--well then no one should seek medical care because if it's God's will then they'll be ok. Just pray about.

You really are feeling froggy tonite aren't you? LOL

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I think it has to be up to each person to decide where they fall on this issue. For me, it's fairly simple. I do not equate animals to humans. I consider child molesters and murderers animals thus I have no issue with the death penalty is most situations - not all, but most, especially if it has something to do w/ a child. I'm not a hunter, but I do fish. I would like for nature to run it's course but every once in a while unfortunately we do have to step in and address issues like the wolves and bears. Believe me, it makes me cringe when I hear that a bear was shot here in town for rummaging through garbage like they had to do on Halloween night. But do we spare the bear or risk a child's life? It all has to be balanced and well thought out. I despise those who kill animals just to have a trophy or a hide. I feel that is basically a sin.

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Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

MArilynk again just because I do live in New York, does not mean I cannot discuss issues of hunting that is silly and meaningless..Also to coin a famous phrase by the wonderful Paul McCarhty from the Beatles, if slaughter houses were made with glass windows , everyone would be a vegetarian....Oh how true .....

Some states like VA pay bounty on animals such as coyotes. The reason is over population of the coyote and the fact that they go after the livestock..sheep, goats, little calfs.
It is one way to keep the population under control.


What's aerial wolf gunning, and why does vice presidential Sarah Palin support the practice? - By Samantha Henig - Slate Magazine

"The federal legislation (PDF) does have a loophole for predator control, permitting state employees or licensed individuals to shoot from an aircraft for the sake of protecting "land, water, wildlife, livestock, domesticated animals, human life, or crops." (This doesn't just apply to wolves; coyotes and foxes are sometimes gunned down from aircraft, especially in Western states.) Since 2003, Alaska has issued aerial wolf-hunting permits in select areas where moose and caribou populations are particularly endangered. The idea is that by killing the predators, the airborne gunmen can ramp up the number of moose and caribou that human hunters can take home for supper."

Every night, every night....

So, you agree then....If you are Pro-Life, you can pick and choose what "life" is more valid than others based on your personal agenda? What life is less on the charts than others? What is ok to let go? Child molesters, ok. Cows, not only ok, but tasty. Bear that MIGHT attack a child, I'll shed a tear but go ahead and rug him up for the safety of the community. Trust me, I agree with you on all of these things. I eat meat. I believe in capital punishment. I wouldn't hesitate to take my own hands to a child molester. And I don't even have an issue with Ted Nugget...in fact, I would love to have a beer with him someday.

But it really begs the question that the term "Pro-Life" is being used inappropriately. One shouldn't say they are Pro-LIFE is it what they really mean is only SOME LIFE or Pro-LIFE of a fetus under certain circumstance....or under all costs (whatever your particular belief is).

So, getting back to the original post which was less about hunting and more about that other H word that we love to throw around here -- hypocrisy. --I think the poster was trying to state that maybe the term Pro-Life isn't the best way Palin should describe herself or the the movement that is tied to some of her beliefs.

It seems more appropriate that she just cut to the chase and say what she really means -

She's Anti-Choice, and is fine with state passed laws telling women what the can or can't do with their own bodies.

Seems like a more reasonable assessment to me.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

I agree, if I am understanding what you are saying here. Are you saying that when we use the phrase "pro-life" it is an understood thing that we are referring to a fetus? I think it's kind of silly to try and lump in wether or not a person hunts, to their pro-life or pro-choice stand.

It is my understanding that Sarah Palin would like the choice left up to each state. I think I like that idea, too. I am pro-choice, but don't ever think Roe V. Wade will be overturned on a national level. It could possibly go to a state voter choice, and IMO, that would make more sense to me.

Kelliiii did I get your take on it correct??? My mind is a bit of mush lately.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

I've heard and read lots of crazy "out there" things during this long drawn out election but saying Sarah Palin isn't Pro-Life is right at the top of the list. She's taken so much crap for being Pro-Life and now she's getting crap for not being Pro-Life enough - unreal.

This interview is interesting...she's vocally pro-life but just won't answer the actual question. She talks about counseling against abortion and keeps talking about 'choice' but not about actually making it illegal. Perhaps when it's put into words it's too extreme even for her...or she just has a total inability to answer a straight-forward question.

YouTube - Palins extreme abortion and contraception views with Couric

Maureen

Vegetarians do not eat meat, fish, or poultry. Vegans, in addition to being vegetarian, do not use other animal products and by-products such as eggs, dairy products, honey, leather, fur, silk, wool, cosmetics, and soaps derived from animal products.

To Lucy -- since you're a vegan, do you use any of the above items?

Being pro-life (we're talking about humans) and killing animals are two totally different topics. Since someone quoted the Bible, the Bible also talks in Genesis where God tells Adam that man is to have dominion over the animals. Animals and humans are on different levels, with man over the animals.

As for hunting, if the population isn't thinned out, we have sick and starving animals, we have rabies on the rise, we have deer hitting our automobiles. Right now, in my area, we have so many deer, there's deer on the road that have been hit every day. We came home the other night and I had three sleeping in my yard! It's much more humane to kill these animals with a gun than having them suffer starvation and disease or being hit by an automobile.

mom2twins2 why are you soooooooooo concerned about my diet.. To your answer I do not eat fish, however I am not a vegan their is a huge difference. so get yours facts straight... More important this thread was about Sarah Palin and she admitting she is pro-life which she is a total fake, she cannot be pro-life and kill innocent animals just for the sport.. Finally do you truly believe that someone who was a victim of a horrible rape or a incest at the hands of a family member not have a abortion . She is plain crazy to make those statements, if she was not in the position herself. I cannot conceive if those circumstances happened to one of my dd's they would have to carry that unborn child.... Catherine

Well Lucy, that is entirely your right to equate animals w/ humans. I certainly don't agree but hey, whatever. But calling someone crazy because they don't believe in abortion is wrong. It's her opinion as it is the opinion of millions of others. Doesn't make them crazy because they have differing opinions from yours.

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Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

Would you at least address the question I have posed 3 times regarding hunting?
Please provide your thoughts, ideas, etc. on methods for population control for animals. I'm betting you can't because you know little to nothing about wildlife conservation (unless it's on youtube or wiki), and/or land preservations.

I can understand and agree somewhat w/ what Kelliiii stated. I don't think that animals are on the same level as humans however. My God! Animals eat their young sometimes, as opposed to having to raise more than they can care for, or if one of the babies is sick--just one of many reasons why I don't think that animals necessarily rise to the level as humans.

I don't necessarily agree w/ Palin on the abortion issue, but to confuse abortion w/ hunting is just downright silly.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

OMG. . .I don't even know where to begin with this one.

Hunting is a way of life for many people. If you don't get that living in New York City then that's fine, but animal populations left unchecked is in itself cruel. And yes, when some populations get out of control they pose a danger to people. We frequently have cougars that wind up in peoples back yards or neighborhood parks.:

The cougar was once bounty hunted and poisoned as a threat to humans and a predator of livestock. Beginning in the early 1970’s, regulated hunting seasons or closures began replacing programs designed to eliminate the cat. Washington populations have more than doubled since the early 1980’s. Our increasing cougar and human populations and decreasing habitat creates new management challenges. The WDFW is responding to over 500 complaints a year regarding urban sightings, attacks on livestock and pets, and cougar/human confrontations. The Department believes that the most cost effective way to control cougar populations is through recreational hunting.

WDFW -- Living with wildlife in Washington: Cougar Management

I guess you would rather leave them to starve. You do understand that people are animals and are natural predators of other animals, no? If you are feeding your family fish then you are contributing to the killing of animals for food. Have you ever clubbed a large fish? I have. It is not a feel good moment, but it is the most humane thing to do, as is controlling game populations through wildlife management programs and hunting tags.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I guess the point that I was trying to make is solely about the label "Pro-Life" and what that really translates to.

It seems to me that Anti-Choice is more appropriate and a true assessment of that movement.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

The Pro-Life movement has always specifically dealt with the sanctity of "human" life. I don't think there is any question about that. It does raise the issue of the death penalty. I think it is fair to say that it is hypocritical to say you are Pro-life regarding abortion, but not regarding the death penalty. The official stand of the Pro-Life movement is anti-death penalty. It's one I struggle with a bit. . . because it has to do with innocence vs. guilt. I am not comfortable with the idea of government sanctioned death, but sometimes in the worst cases it's difficult to decide what should be done with the most heinous serial killers. I think I would like to see no official death penalty, but these worst offenders should not be protected in prison. . . .put them in the general population.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Repsonses Sarah Palin provided the Anchorage Daily News in October, 2006 when running for Governor (Anchorage Daily News, October 22, 2006, via Lexis.com):

Would you introduce - or, if introduced by a legislator, would you support - a bill to adopt the death penalty in Alaska? If yes, which crimes should it apply to?

Palin: If the Legislature were to pass a bill that established a death penalty on adults who murder children, I would sign it.

Again, picking and choosing what life is more important than others --- either you are Pro-Life, or Pro-Life that meets my agenda.

So, again....Anti-Choice is the more appropriate term.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

I can agree with that, but again the official Pro-Life stand is anti-death penalty. I don't think Anti-Choice is anymore accurate then Pro-Choice. The terms should be Pro-Abortion and Anti-Abortion, but you can thank the politically correct police for that.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

NOPE! Pro-Abortion is incorrect. I don't know anyone, myself included who is an advocate for abortions. We are advocates of CHOICE.

I've had an abortion---but I don't counsel others to have them! I simply tell them of my experience and discuss ALL of their options. I don't advocate one or the other--I advocate that they make the CHOICE that is correct for them.
I hate to think that they would not would have a choice.

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Mental that one, I'm telling you. ---Ron Weasley, "Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets"

I'm not soooooooooo concerned with your diet. YOU were the one who brought up this entire idiotic thread! Can you read? If you're so concerned with the way animals are killed and you do not eat meat, then I would think you would be concerned about by-products also such as eggs, dairy, honey, leather. BTW, the first paragraph I quoted was taken directly out of a vegan website.

This entire thread is so silly. To equate killing animals to killing unborn babies. Just utterly ridiculous.
And you're calling Gov. Palin crazy??? Geez......

Ohhhh, but why?

There are plenty of religions and movements out there that say all life, including plant life, is equal to human life. There is ancient religious text as well as modern studies that pose a different opinion. PETA for example would beg to differ your above stated opinion. What makes their opinion of agenda less important than any other?

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

MArilynk in response to controlling animal wildlife, I know there must be a balance and I know that sadly animals are killed and eaten its the cycle of life. If all the animals were to live, we as a world would be over run by them.I personally do not eat meat, however I am not aganist controlling the world population of animals. The point I have been trying to bring up is that I personally feel if Sarah Palin is pro=life then why does that not apply to all living things which last time I checked animals are living breathing things , who feel pain and suffering like us. Of course people need meat to survive, but I am againist anyone and not just Sarah Palin but anyone who hunts just for the sport and does not use the meat for intended purposes but rather as tropies, is that enough information for you and please do not have pity for me and stop for the 100th time critizing my grammar, who made you soooooooooo perfect. Also Marilynk if you were a victim god forbid of rape of incest would you consider a abortion I would like to hear your thoughts...I say this because I discussed this with Allinaugust because I had an abortion on 4/7/93.. I already had given birth to 2 children whom were born with severe heart defects. Then I had my third my dd Caitlin who had 20 weeks into my pregnancy they determinded with a echo scan of her little heart everything was ok. So here I was with a 6 year old and 3 year with heart defects and now I have a 9 month baby who thankfully was born healthy.. Sadly and it was not planned I became pregnant and at 14 weeks they determined major heart defects, sadly me and my dh and doctor. s made the sad decision. Do I think it was the right thing, is it ever a right thing to do to my child. I am not writing this for pity but from experience.... Catherine

I could care less what PETA thinks! They're nothing but a terrorist group. I love animals, but to equate animals with babies -- no, never.
Plant life equal to human life?? Come on -- you're kidding me. That's a ridiculous statement. The analogy of that is stupid. If that's the case, guess people better quit picking flowers then and stop eating those veggies 'cause you're killing them.

Again. . .I think it's all mincing words. I understand that you are saying that Pro-Choice does not mean advocating that everyone have an abortion. I understand that. But if you really want to delve into it. . .before Roe v Wade women still had a choice. They could choose to have an illegal abortion. I'm not advocating that. But Pro-Choice is really about the legality of abortions. . . to keep them legal. To me that can be equated to Pro-Abortion. They are advocating legal abortions. . .that is Pro-Abortion. Trust me, we are not really arguing different points here. . . I just think that the way it was brought up in this thread. . .being Pro-Life means you can't be Pro-Hunting is silly. We are arguing the choice of words. . .not really the issue and meaning behind them. Did that make any sense?? LOL!

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I am not no way talking about plant life at all . However there is no life like human life, however I am such a huge animal lover, that I truly feel they suffer the same as humans.Now as far as Peta i totally agree they are crazy and have gone to stupid extreme means of saving animals. In my personal views they are a sick group and should not represent the care of animals anywhere. Again sorry to all, because this has totally gone off topic... Catherine

I've got to disagree with you on that one. Anti-Abortion, yes. But Pro-Abortion implies that the Pro-Choice movement is only about abortion. Pro-Choice is about a woman having the right to control her own fertility without gov interaction or mandate. Where the official stance of the Pro-Life movement might be anti-abortion and anti-death penalty, the Pro-Choice movement is pro-option (abortion, adoption, assistance, and also supports birth-control insurance reform and some other areas)....so, it isn't as much about abortion itself as it is about a woman to make her own decisions regarding her fertility and body and not be enslaved to gov mandates, even if it voted in by peers in her community.

It's easy to say that unborn life should be protected at all costs. To hold ideals like that on faceless women has no bearing on me. I have the luxury of never having to directly make the decision. But, I know the government should not be charged with making decisions on personal matters. An individual is the best judge of their situation, not a civil servant. People may not make the best choices, but that is the responsibility placed upon them by a free society.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

Oh, I get it. You answer to my question "What makes their opinion of agenda less important than any other?" -- is simply, well....they don't believe the same thing you do, so their opinion is wothless, stupid and ridiculous. So forget PETA --- how about Buddhists? In the Five Precepts of Buddhism, one states

"One must not deliberately kill any living creatures, either by committing the act oneself, instructing others to kill, or approving of or participating in act of killing. It is a respect to others' lives.

One should not deprive others (animals not excluded) of the right to live. If one is hurt or killed, one's family, relatives, friends will suffer. It is the cause of rebirth in Three Evil Paths. The effect of killing to the performer are brevity of life, ill health, handicapped and fear."

So, I will ask the question again....What makes their opinion of agenda less important than any other? Is it because they are simply not like you?

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

I have the right to my own opinion. I'm not Buddist, so I don't really care what they teach. I don't believe in what they teach. I'm not a PETA supporter, and I certainly don't care what they think. Heck, in India, cows are considered sacred. Does that mean I'm not supposed to kill a cow because Indian culture says not to? I believe as I believe, someone else believes another. Do the Buddist or Muslim or Indian care what I believe -- I highly doubt it.

And I'll ask the question of you. Why is your opinion of pro-abortion more important than my opinion of pro-life???

I would also think that Pro-Choice would mean that a woman could chose to have as many kids as she wants. BUT as show repeatly by "some" of the out-spoke Pro-Choice people here they always have some sly, mean, or rude comments to make about the "Duggar Family".

I totally understand what you are saying. . .but it's still just word choice for me. It's all such a grey area anyway. I guess you could say I'm Pro-Choice and Pro-Life. Where the heck does that put me? I still think we should put birth control in drinking fountains. . . .better yet alcohol! :busily writing my congressmen now:

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

But has anyone tried to pass a law stopping them from having children?


Edit: Having an opinion isn't anti-choice. They're are lots of people who believe abortion is wrong, but don't think the government has a right to tell women what they can and can't do with their bodies.

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Once the game is over, the king and the pawn go back in the same box.

Your opinion isn't any more important than mine. That's the point. Even though I find you to be intolerant and one-sided...

In turn, regardless of what you believe in, Christian-Indian-Peta-Buddhist-Whaterver, makes no difference to me. But your opinion or agenda should mandate what I can or can't do with my body.

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I'm the kind of woman when my feet hit the floor in each morning, the devil says "Oh crap, she's up."

Of course you find me to be intolerant and one-sided. Because I don't adhere to what YOU believe in. Why doesn't that surprise me? And I will continue to believe as I do and believe that abortion is murder. Why is that you don't consider yourself intolerant and one-sided? You have only one opinion on the subject. Doesn't that make you intolerant of others' beliefs?