Democratic Congressional Campaign Chairmen Rahm Emmanuel and Democratic Leadership Council President Bruce Reed are proposing mandatory national service for all Americans 18 to 25 years old. The two men have published a book together called The Plan in which Emmanuel calls for “a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us by establishing, for the first time, an ethic of universal citizen service. All young Americans should be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic civil defense training and community service… Universal citizen service will bring Americans of every background together to make America safer and more united in common purpose.”


Source:
The Plan - Buy the Book
http://www.examiner.com/x-536-Civil-...f-choice-favor s-compulsory-universal-service
The Volokh Conspiracy - Rahm Emanuel: Time for a new contract with America.

[I sure hope this doesn't go through. It won't work. What kind of exceptions will be made? There have to be-chronic illness, supporting a family, etc....

Obama is right with him on this..

Posted: July 15, 2008
1:00 am Eastern

© 2008

With all the reporters covering the major presidential candidates, it amazes me no one ever seems to ask the right questions.

For several days now, WND has been hounding Barack Obama's campaign about a statement he made July 2 in Colorado Springs – a statement that blew my mind, one that has had me scratching my head ever since.

In talking about his plans to double the size of the Peace Corps and nearly quadruple the size of AmeriCorps and the size of the nation's military services, he made this rather shocking (and chilling) pledge: "We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

Now, since I've never heard anyone inside or out of government use the phrase "civilian national security force" before, I was more than a little curious about what he has in mind.

Is it possible I am the only journalist in America who sought clarification on this campaign promise?

What does it mean?

If we're going to create some kind of national police force as big, powerful and well-funded as our combined U.S. military forces, isn't this rather a big deal?

I thought Democrats generally believed the U.S. spent too much on the military. How is it possible their candidate is seeking to create some kind of massive but secret national police force that will be even bigger than the Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force put together?

Now, maybe he was misquoted by the Congressional Quarterly and the Chicago Tribune. I guess it's possible. If so, you would think he would want to set the record straight. Maybe he misspoke. That has certainly happened before. Again, why wouldn't the rest of my colleagues show some curiosity about such a major and, frankly, bone-chilling proposition?

Are we talking about creating a police state here?

The U.S. Army alone has nearly 500,000 troops. That doesn't count reserves or National Guard. In 2007, the U.S. Defense budget was $439 billion.

Is Obama serious about creating some kind of domestic security force bigger and more expensive than that?

If not, why did he say it? What did he mean?

So far, despite our attempts to find out, the Obama campaign is not talking.

At this point all I can do is enlist your help – and the help of every other journalist who still thinks the American people have a right to know the specifics about a presidential candidate's biggest and boldest initiatives before the election. I also want to ask radio talk-show hosts across America to start asking this same question. I have a feeling if others join our quest, we might yet get clarification on this proposal from Obama.

Who will Obama appoint to administer this new "civilian national security force"? Where will the money come from? Where in the Constitution does he see justification for the federal government creating such a domestic army?

The questions are endless.

But before we can hope to get to the specifics, we need much more in the way of generalizations from Obama.

Certainly there have been initiatives like this elsewhere – Cuba, the Soviet Union, China, Venezuela, North Korea. But has anything like this ever been proposed in a free country?

I have a feeling there would be more questions from the press if I myself had proposed the creation of something as preposterous as a "civilian national security force" than there has been about this proposal by the presidential candidate currently leading in most of the polls. I'm quite sure I would be hung out to dry as some kind of Nazi thug. Meanwhile, Obama makes this wild suggestion and it is met with a collective yawn from the watchdogs.

Help me out here. What am I missing?

Can I get a hand?

It's a "little pie in the sky" idea but how in the world would it get implemented? Can you imagine the mess this would create? The draft was hard enough but this would be much worse. I'm old enough to remember the draft, the college exemptions, the moving to Canada, etc... And what is the supposed length of service? 3 months? Just how much can you learn in 3 months to help secure the nation? Whose going to pay for all of this???? Where will these volunteers live? How will they live for their allotted time? What if you are in jail? How about med school? The questions concerning this are endless. Not to mention whether or not it's even legal. What a mess!

Sounds just like Waffen SS...Hitler’s civilian army…


YouTube - OBAMA'S ARMY (Join Today)

Obama's 'civilian national security force'

Article
In talking about his plans to double the size of the Peace Corps and nearly quadruple the size of AmeriCorps and the size of the nation's military services, he made this rather shocking (and chilling) pledge: "We cannot continue to rely on our military in order to achieve the national security objectives we've set. We've got to have a civilian national security force that's just as powerful, just as strong, just as well-funded."

What does it mean?

If we're going to create some kind of national police force as big, powerful and well-funded as our combined U.S. military forces, isn't this rather a big deal?
I thought Democrats generally believed the U.S. spent too much on the military. How is it possible their candidate is seeking to create some kind of massive but secret national police force that will be even bigger than the Army, Navy, Marines and Air Force put together?

The U.S. Army alone has nearly 500,000 troops. That doesn't count reserves or National Guard. In 2007, the U.S. Defense budget was $439 billion.
Is Obama serious about creating some kind of domestic security force bigger and more expensive than that?

Who will Obama appoint to administer this new "civilian national security force"? Where will the money come from? Where in the Constitution does he see justification for the federal government creating such a domestic army?

(We need to get Obama to clarify this statement. This does seem to be an extention of the "rent a mobs" following Mr Obama, and the green police that Al Gore is assembling. Of course this is extremely dangerous to liberty! So ask yourself this... Will you TRUST Obama (and his "advisors") to retain a modern day Gestapo, or "Secret State Police"? With all we have heard lately, and Obama going to address the Germans, one gets the creepy idea that Bush Jr was nothing more than a ruse to get us to something much, much worse!)

read more at
Obama's 'civilian national security force'

Evil usually starts off very benign looking but the seed gets planted and it grows and grows......

Where are all the supporters of this? THIS is what you wanted, right? Stand up & cheer for it!

Well they probably don't want THAT so that's why they aren't here defending it!!! I think most of the Obama supporters have bought into a dream-they know so little about Obama but get hooked into his "change" mantra and project what they want that to mean onto Obama. I think a lot of people are going to be very shocked with reality soon enough.

Yeah. . .that's the problem with things like this. It all sounds like a great idea. . . .right up until it's not! Sometimes I think we have learned NOTHING from history. Why would we need "mandatory" service? WTH is a "national civilian security force" and why in the world we would need one??

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

This is nothing he has hidden, he stated it loud & clear in July. Hmm, coincidence that the media didn't push this fact?

I also heard something today about a mandantory 1000 hours a year (might have been 100) for seniors to volunteer their time helping in the community. And teens having to volunteer something like half that number on community service.

Yep I think it was 100 hours but then you get a tax credit or something. I'm totally against anything MANDATORY. If they want to make something volunteer and give a tax credit then go for it. But mandatory? NO WAY. And I can't imagine what a mess this would be!!!! Especially considering how many people wouldn't want to be there in the first place!

What was all the whining about freedoms being taken away?

It's just another form of slavery. There is absolutely nothing wrong with voluntary service, but there is a reason involuntary servitude is unconstitutional.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Well I think we will need the security force as the antichrist assumes more and more power!!! lol

Yep. . .and people thought the draft was awful.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

We cannot forget that barry supports the draft!


But it’s also important that a president speaks to military service as an obligation not just of some, but of many. You know, I traveled, obviously, a lot over the last 19 months. And if you go to small towns, throughout the Midwest or the Southwest or the South, every town has tons of young people who are serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. That’s not always the case in other parts of the country, in more urban centers. And I think it’s important for the president to say, this is an important obligation. If we are going into war, then all of us go, not just some.


Transcript: ServiceNation Presidential Forum at Columbia University : Clips & Comment

And the draft scares the crap out of me!!!! Obama want to draft his daughters?

Is THIS what you people WANTED?

Well by golly..YOU GOT IT!

I agree with this plan. There is nothing bad that can come out of it, as long as they will get hte same support that volunteers would (or wouldn't) receive.

It works very well for Israel, why not here?

You know why? Cause we are spoiled. Plain and simple.

__________________
Never grow a wishbone, daughter, where your backbone ought to be!

How can anyone agree with this plan when you don't know any of the details?? Is it even legal? How much will it cost? Where and what will the volunteers do? Would an employer have to keep the persons job open if they are called to some form of service? What about interrupting college?Is it really cost effective to ask people for a short period of time to train for something that may never be used? If you agree with this plan, as you say you do, please share the details and answer these questions? Thanks!

You guys are hysterical! LOL It’s so fun watching you get all worked up!

Glad to be of service by providing you some chuckles!!! Can this count towards my involuntary servitude? lol

Becaise I know, by my husband's experience, that it works.

__________________
Never grow a wishbone, daughter, where your backbone ought to be!

The Israel Defense Forces (IDF). It is the sole military wing of the Israeli security forces, and has no civilian jurisdiction within Israel

Israel Defense Forces - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What you are talking about and what Obama is talking about are two entirely different things.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

That did not address the specifics I asked about.

Sadly, I think the female population will have a pregnancy explosion......wed, unwed, all of it. I don't know enough about this "plan" yet, but, will be watching it.

I would like to see people that are receiving assistance, if able bodied, performing some sort of work for it..

__________________
Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Ok, now that had me laughing.

I think we'll need to see how this all pans out. Basically, that is my plan for the next four years.....listen carefully, and see how things are going to pan out. Will I speak out about it??? Sure will if I don't agree, but, I think we should at least let the plans be laid.

Kolu, I do applaud you for bringing this to light can we can all watch it more carefully.

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

Let's fix some of the problems we already have before starting a massive "change" of this magnitude. Let's fix welfare, the econony, etc... Let's not add more bureacracy (sp).

I have no problem at all with this - Unless you have been in the military you have no idea how much self respect, discipline, honor, patriotism and tolerance ( just to mention a few) that you come out of the military with. I wish my son and daughter had chosen to go into the military.

I think it's a great idea and pleased it's coming from the Democrats. I think the generations of "expected entitlement" and "gimee Now" would benefit greatly.

__________________
Mary

I have no problem with it either. I talked to my 18 yr old son who is in college and guess what he said he wouldn't mind doing it at all. Actually his friends and him have talked about it and none of them care. Hell even I wouldn't mind doing it. Of course I'd like more details and I'm sure iof they do implement it there would be more details put out there.

Oh and KTS about the draft, IF there ever is a draft then you better believe that young women should also be drafted right along side the young men. All the calls over the years for equality means women should absolutely be drafted along with men. And before anyone gets their panties in a wad over my statement I have BOTH sons & a daughter so fair is fair.

__________________
Mom to Jake, Zach & Meghan
SJCC STREAKS FOOTBALL!!
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL!

For others also like you..just what are your sons doing now to volunteer (without pay or incentives) to help their community?

The reason I ask is because I believe volunteer service to the community begins at home. I do not think government mandates are the right way to go.
I prefer government to stay as much out of my life as possible. (example: including the bedroom,)

Make sure & call up Grandma..let her know to keep that schedule cleared.

All of my children and myself volunteer in our community. We always spend Thanksgiving working the community free dinner. We volunteer at the hospital here, we also do much volunteer for our church. My college son donates his time at college to help tutor kids who have trouble in school. We do lots of work for some of the elderly in our neighboorhood. In fact my son and I spent all day yesterday raking yards for the older people in our neighborhood and we have fun doing it!! There's plenty more but you get the gist. I have no problem at all with it though.

__________________
Mom to Jake, Zach & Meghan
SJCC STREAKS FOOTBALL!!
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL!

I volunteer too..though it tends to be towards animal issues. For those less fortunate than I, I donate food & HBA.

Being forced to give, takes any and all pleasure out of it. PERIOD.

Same with the draft, those who volunteer do NOT want people that would rather not be there next to them in combat.

I LOVE THIS POST!!!!!


Hats off!

__________________
Never grow a wishbone, daughter, where your backbone ought to be!

I wonder why women aren't forced to register when they turn 18???? Fair is fair. They should have to do that also.

How come no one on here who supports this has answered any of my questions????

Hope you're not addressing that to me. I feel they should be. No ifs ands or buts. Like I said I feel women should be drafted which means they WOULD have to register. Maybe they will get that changed. I hope so.

And as for your other questions how the heck would anyone here be able to answer those questions right now when there isn't even a plan in place yet about mandatory service. I will wait to see what they plan to do before even trying to answer all those questions. Maybe you should also. Getting all worked up about something that isn't even in place yet.

__________________
Mom to Jake, Zach & Meghan
SJCC STREAKS FOOTBALL!!
CLEVELAND BROWNS FOOTBALL!

We're all worked up because it makes no sense. Why would we even need a civilian army greater in size then our current military force? Nevermind that it's probably unconstitutional. Please don't forget that this civilian force would be under the control of whom? It won't always be Obama. Would you have been comfortable with such a force under. . .say Bush? How about somebody that makes Bush look harmless? Will that still be ok? Don't forget that it will be mandatory.

I find it interesting that people that would like to see our military be brought home and military spending cut, support this without even really knowing what it is. Who will be the contractors making money off of supplying this huge civilian force. Haliburton? Will that be ok? There are so many questions here that people are hastily looking over, just because we can all say we think service is a good thing. Service to whom? And for what? "Service" isn't universally good and in no way should it be mandatory.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

I'm 50/50 on the manditory part. I don't think it would work and too many resources would be spent rounding up people who refuse. I will be interested to see the proposal if anything comes of it.

I can envision service tied to an incentive. I believe youth being involved for a greater good would be a huge benefit to everyone, so offering a discount for college or some sort of tax rebate would be okay with me.

I am involved in some PanFlu preparedness programs and it is amazing how little understanding people have. Imagine if we had people more prepared for a 9/11 type disaster and who felt comfortable to take charge and help people who panic or need assistance. Generally, only those directly involved nderstand emergency response.

Many kids would benefit from volunteering for a church organization, hospital, or school, who might not otherwise have the opportunity. Additionally, it is difficult to keep our military staffed with enough people, so this might open up a new popuation that had discounted service to country as a career.

For a group of people so concerned about a perceived lack of patriotism, I am surprised you are all so worried.

THAT is exactly my point!!!! Yet there are people on here stating they are all for mandatory service yet we don't have a clue what it would entail!!!! How can you be for something that you don't even know what it's about yet???

If you are looking for a partisan fight, you picked the wrong proposed policy. I looked through this thread and see OhhGodd and dnj51 (both swing for McCain I believe) think this is fine without knowing the details you so desperately need at this very moment, even though nothing has been passed.

Are you really trying to pick a fight with them?

I think it's a great idea. Of course I don't know all the details (I am not envisioning the Nazi youth parading through the streets either) but I also think a plan that would give people, particularly younger people, an incentive to serve their country without actually having to go into the military is outstanding. College funds, tax breaks, lower interest-rate housing loans, whatever. It's time to end the gimme mentality and teach them to earn it. The military is a great way to earn a college education but some people can't join due to health problems (even asthma disqualifies you for military service). I think would be a great way for those who want to serve their country but can't in the military for whatever reason. If others who are able-bodied refuse to serve, I think they should be barred from receiving federal aid in any form or fashion.

__________________
Proud Wife of an Army Soldier and proud mother of an Army MP currently serving in Iraq.


"To any critics who say a woman can't think and work and carry a baby at the same time, I'd just like to escort that Neanderthal back to the cave." - Sarah Palin

I'd probably go for that.

This is pretty much sums up how I feel. I think everyone should serve their country in some capacity. Making it mandatory though, I disagree with, it's a pretty huge intrusion on personal freedom. Not to mention a logistical nightmare to put in place.

However if one ever wishes to receive certain benefits of our society, they should be required to serve it.

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We can't stop here this is bat country.....

Traci, you know I agree with you. When our sons and daughters go off to war while the rest of the world is at the mall.

I would support it as mandatory as a way to have college paid for. The logistics are not worked out yet and there are people peeing in their pants about it...the very people who complain about people who don't support themselves when this is a way to teach them to support themselves.

Lots of do about nothing. Like always. Play the scare game when it isn't warrented. No one is certainly going to jerk Kathy or Kolu out of bed and make them volunteer to do anything. Someone should but they won't.

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GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother.
Praying for my Marine Son who is deployed somewhere in the sandbox until July, 2008! He's HOME!!!!! God Bless the USA!!!!!

Well, let's see...an idea is thrown out there, an idea that has been working for more than 25 countries. No I don't know all the details, but when you voted, did you know all the details of your candidate's plans while in the Oval Office? No you voted because you liked what he said and the plans sounded good. You did not need to know all the details.

I do not need to know all the details right now. I've been in the Army, I've lived in Germany where they do have mandatory military service and it works fine.

So that's why I can "be for something" which I DO have a clue about what it would entail.

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Mary

How can you be so against something you don't even have a clue about what it would entail??????How can you be against something that you don't even know what it's about yet?????

Some see the glass half full and some see it half empty. Some have hope for the possiblities and some see the negativities. I prefer to see the good and hope for the good because I have faith. I know that there is someone higher than me who is in control so I am excited to see what is next. I do not live in fear and I am sure that some of you do.

__________________
GO NAVY WRESTLING!!BEAT ARMY!!!
RJB 3/18/60 - 5/22/04
We miss you, sweet brother.
Praying for my Marine Son who is deployed somewhere in the sandbox until July, 2008! He's HOME!!!!! God Bless the USA!!!!!

No, I didn't know all details of what McCain had planned. However, I'm not on here approving something specfic that I don't know anything about. I don't have to know all the details to be worried of something with "mandatory for all" in it. That's why I want to know details from people who already have thrown their support behind it. So far, no one has answered any of the questions I have proposed. It seems fair to me to ask you who say this works well in other countries to post specifics of why you think it's all good. That's what I asked for. I guess it's easier to diss me and draw conclusion then actually go into details of what the supporters of the plan actually know. I wanted information. I've received none of how it works, costs, etc... even from people who have witnessed it in other countries.

Kathy, I'm not dissing you - I just think it's an IDEA - nothing is even in the works. And I like the Idea.

If and when it really goes before Congress then I'll have lots of questions too.

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Mary

Well thank you for answering. I'm open to hearing about it myself but am extremely worried about anything the government makes mandatory, especially something this massive that will affect pretty much everyone! I just don't have much faith in massive government programs-run by Dems or Reps! I want smaller government programs

I totally agree.....as a mother of 3 children.....this man is really making me nervous...Sherri

__________________
"It isn't that liberals are ignorant, it's just that they know so much that isn't so."
- Ronald Reagan

Kathy,

I will try to answer some of your questions, but like what was stated before, until the full plan comes out, who knows what exactly it will entail. I'm sorry I didn't attempt to answer your questions before. I know how frustrating that is!


How can anyone agree with this plan when you don't know any of the details?? If the plan is like something that Israel has in place, then it is a good plan, that works. All have to serve, and come out of it with a greater knowledge of their Country.


Is it even legal? if the draft is legal, then yes, it could be legal. I am not sure why it wouldn't be. Are you familiar enough with the Constitution to know if it would be or not? I am not, without research, well enough versed to know if it is or not.


How much will it cost? I am sure it will cost a lot.


Where and what will the volunteers do? From what my husband has told me, In Israel, the Civilians who serve, do not carry guns. They are a constant on the streets in their uniforms, giving a sense of security to all. My dh said that when he was there he felt very safe. He said, it wasn't that he felt safe from terrorism, because when he was in Tel Aviv, on his way home, a bomb went off below his hotel killing many young party goers at a nightclub. He said that he felt safe
from being robbed and such. He said it just brought a sense of ease to the streets of Haifa, where he was staying.

Would an employer have to keep the persons job open if they are called to some form of service? I doubt very seriously an 18 year old has a job that they would be worried about. However, in the case that they are, I would hope that there would be provisions to accomodate this. They should have to go right out of high school, before College.

What about interrupting college? See ^^


Is it really cost effective to ask people for a short period of time to train for something that may never be used? That is debatable. I think there is a wealth of knowledge and an intangible gain that would come from this type of service.

I know there was one other question you had asked that you did not list in your request for information above. I just can't remember it now, but it was a valid question, like all of your questions have been.. If I can find it, or remember, I will come back and try to answer.

__________________
Never grow a wishbone, daughter, where your backbone ought to be!

I'm glad to see that people are at least questioning this. Like I said, it sounds like a good idea. I'm all for college age kids going to areas that had a natural disaster helping to rebuild for some college tuition credit. BUT. . .big but there, I am not so comfortable with what we have been told so far. I'm not comfortable with this being mandatory. What if this mandatory service includes going into areas and confiscating guns of law abiding citizens? What if it includes crowd control. . .rubber bullets and tazers. . .against college students protesting an unjust war? People really need to think this through before they rush to any judgements. Once this is established it will be near impossible to revoke. . . .no matter who is calling the shots.

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Hambirg,

So very true.

But, utimately, I am guessing it will not be up to us, individually, to decide. My guess is that it will go before Congress and on from there.

This is why it is so important for people to be educated when they draw that lever for a candidate for the positions that make these laws, to KNOW what their platform is and their history of voting on issues.

A lof of voters vote just because, or simply vote down party lines. Worse yet, they vote on "feelings" or which candidate is talling them what they want to hear.

Get educated, know your candidates, and elect those into these positions that will be the best suited to safeguard our freedoms and do the best job for the welfare of our Country.

__________________
Never grow a wishbone, daughter, where your backbone ought to be!

Thank you for understanding my point. Of course Congress will push through things no matter how the American people feel. . .that's what they do.

I have to admit, on a knee jerk reaction, the Patriot Act seemed to make sense to me, only because of it's timing. Of course, once the situation that makes these types of things seem justified, has passed, then it leaves somebody thinking. . .whoa! what the heck did I just let happen?! Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me!

__________________
"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm