About time...

At this point, Supreme Court Justice David Souter’s Clerk informed Philip J. Berg, the lawyer who brought the case against Obama, that his petition for an injunction to stay the November 4th election was denied, but the Clerk also required the defendants to respond to the Writ of Certiorari (which requires the concurrence of four Justices) by December 1. At that time, Mr. Obama must present to the Court an authentic birth certificate, after which Mr. Berg will respond.

If Obama fails to do that, it is sure to inspire the skepticism of the Justices, who are unaccustomed to being defied. They will have to decide what to do about a president-elect who refuses to prove his natural-born citizenship.

“I can see a unanimous Court (en banc) decertifying the election if Obama refuses to produce his birth certificate,” says Raymond S. Kraft, an attorney and writer. “They cannot do otherwise without abandoning all credibility as guardians of the Constitution. Even the most liberal justices, however loathe they may to do this, still consider themselves guardians of the Constitution. The Court is very jealous of its power - even over presidents, even over presidents-elect.”

Also remember that on December 13, the Electoral College meets to casts its votes. If it has been determined that Mr. Obama is an illegal alien and therefore ineligible to become President of the United States, the Electors will be duty-bound to honor the Constitution.

I could explain why this means nothing, but I won't.

You must be a huge fan of Vince Flynn.

I cannot find this story in a single news outlet; not one.

Dream on kolu. You must face the fact that President Elect Obama will soon be our President in January. A little common sense needs to be used with some of these outlandish stories out there.

^^I did

snopes.com: Barack Obama Birth Certificate

I found it doing a quick google search ladies. It's from The Valley Truth. Also under Conservative Beach Girl's site.

Just out of curiosity, if (big if) this were to happen, who would then be the new president elect?

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Doing the right thing isn't always the same as doing the easy thing.

If before the EC meets, they would have to select another president - probably Biden but maybe Clinton. It wouldn't be McCain or Palin but you just never know ...every day the paper is getting harder to distinquish from The Onion . If after the EC meets, it would be Biden.

Like I said, not a single news outlet.

We all know the truth, they are jsut seeking more trouble.. Obama is a natural born citizen do some more actual factual reading... Come 1/20/09 Barack Obama will lead our nation,,,yipppeeeeeee .. Catherine

It's sad, really, the pathetically thin threads some people are clinging to.

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Reading is Fundamental.

It’s Official: Obama “Born in the U.S.A.” | The FactCheck Wire

Thanks for last post above mine.. praise to the lord, now to all others who had doubt, put that in your pipe and smoke it..........CAtherine

I love getting the google site hits...scamble on!

It would have to be Biden or a brand new election would have to be held. It can't be Clinton as she wasn't even part of the winning ticket. A political party gets to choose a candidate to run, not substitute a President! The Democrats didn't win the Presidency, their candidate, Obama did so no substitute would be acceptable. It has to follow the line of presidential succession. If Obama were to be declared ineligible, it would be a question of whether the election results are valid. If the election stands, Biden would have to advance. If the election were to be declared invalid, they'd have to start from scratch and hold a brand new presidemtial election.

Al this trouble could have been avoided by making all candidate produce their documentation prior to accepting the nomination. It's never been an issue before but obviously, they need to get rules in place to make sure that all candidates are eligible and that the public knows it.

Can you please cite me your authority for that? Because, this is my understanding:

It is clear what happens after the EC meets; however, it is not clear what would happen between the election and the EC meeting.

The election process isn't actually voting for a president, it is voting for the EC of your state. That is why the US popular vote results are irrelevant. Frankly, there is no Federal law that directs the electors of your state to even select the ticket that won the popular vote of the state. That goes to each individual state law. So, the "election" is over.

While we are calling Sen. Obama "P.E. Obama", he really isn't yet because the EC has not met. The 20th Amendment might not apply, because it specifically refers to the "President elect." While no one knows for sure what happens before the EC meets, the most likely scenario is they would select Biden, but no one really has a map to follow yet. It could be Clinton, or McCain, or Paul ..... Perhap the DNC would meet to offer up another ticket (Clinton?). I suppose, the SC would be the final arbitor because all hell would break lose. But, no matter what, there wouldn't be another election.

I think that no, there wouldn't be another election. I think they would certify Biden simply to avoid one. I think that it would have to be Biden because the people (in this case, the Republicans) won't stand for another substitution. Nor would Democrats, if the situation were reversed. Can you imagine what would happen if McCain had won, was disqualified, and the EC decided they have the authority to appoint anyone they chose? What if the EC selected Rush Limbaugh to be President? Or Ann Coulter? LOL.

There is no precedent so none can say with certainty what would happen but it's my thought that they would have to follow the line of presidential succession. Just my thought because I think there are only three reasonable options. I don't have an authority to cite and I apologize for not making that point clear. It's an important point and I should have!

As evidenced on this board, the country is still divided but I don't anticipate that either party will allow the EC to substitute a President of their liking. It seems to me that they either have to declare the election valid and stands as is (Obama), declare the election valid but the candidate ineligible (next in line, Biden), or declare the election invalid (brand new election with all hell breaking loose!).

They're not going to be able to go afield and pick someone who wasn't on the ballot. The EC doesn't have the authority to appoint someone that the people weren't given the opportunity to vote for. They'll have to choose from the candidates who participated in the election itself or let the people vote again. The people (especially of the losing side) won't stand for a non-candidate substitution chosen by the EC. The implications of it change our entire political system and people won't allow the members of one commission to personally select the President of the United States of America.

I found this kind of interesting, however it wouldn't really apply to this situation. It does give some insight into what might possibly happen.

While not involving a "faithless elector" as such, there have been two instances in which a candidate died between the selection of the electors in November and the Electoral College vote in December. In the election of 1872, Democratic candidate Horace Greeley passed away before the meeting of the Electoral College; the electors who were to have voted for Greeley, finding themselves in a state of disarray, split their votes across several candidates, including three votes cast for the deceased Greeley. However, President Ulysses S. Grant, the Republican incumbent, had already won an absolute majority of electors. Because it was the death of a losing candidate, there was no pressure to agree on a replacement candidate. Similarly, in the election of 1912, after the Republicans had nominated incumbent President William Howard Taft and Vice President James S. Sherman, Sherman died shortly before the election, too late to change the names on the ballot, thus causing Sherman to be listed posthumously. That ticket finished third behind the Democrats (Woodrow Wilson) and the Progressives (Theodore Roosevelt), and the eight electoral votes that Sherman would have received were cast instead for Nicholas M. Butler. Electors pledged to a dead candidate are free to vote for whomever they wish just as electors pledged to a live candidate are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elector...(United_States)

It would certainly be a mess. It sounds like they could still vote Obama if they choose to, and then it would be left up to the courts if he was eleigble. If they find he isn't then I assume Biden would be President. However, the EC candidates could choose someone else (Biden, Clinton?).

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

This thread is just so silly. Obama is a US citizen. Born in Hawaii. Citizen. All his life.

It's just that simple.

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Reading is Fundamental.

Just like he is a self proclaimed Christian.

If it's so silly, they WHY doesn't he produce a long form birth certificate???? That would stop all this in it's tracks!

It is very silly. I know that a lot of us want to believe we are smarter than the rest of the world but in fact we are not. There were lots of posts with the same discussion and no resolution - in your eyes anyway - as to whether or not Obama was born in Hawaii.

Let us try and use a little logic - I know it is hard but stick with me.

Don't you think that if there was any and I mean any indication that Obama was not born in the United States that not only the Republicans but the Democrats would have found this out before you? Hilary would have been all over this if there was any truth to the matter. She certainly would not have 'kept quiet' for the sake of the party! Same thing for McCain/Palin. Do you really think that Palin told her Aides to just leave the subject alone - don't get involved? Or any of the other 98 Senators for that matter?

This is why it is very silly.

Aren’t all Christians self proclaimed Christians? Or do you have to be one whether you like it or not?

It was in jest, because he has no clue what Christianity is.. and that is fact based completely just by what he said his beliefs are, but yet says he is a Christian.

Ad Nauseum, he says he reads his bible, but yet doesn't have a clue what it says when he opens up his mouth.

I could care less WHAT religion he professes to be (except Radical Muslim, of course).

BUT the same would apply if he said his religion was based in Traditional Islam beliefs and he reads his Koran regularly..
and then he spews out beliefs that go strictly against the religion, while trying to share and prove he is this religion.

If I knew the Koran as well as I know the bible, I would be the first one to stand up and call him a hypocrite, if that was the case. He just so happened to have chosen to call himself grounded in Traditional Christian values and beliefs, says he reads his bible, that he went forward during an altar call, but yet turns around and spills out Universalism beliefs (all about me, there is more than one way to heaven, etc).

He is a hypocrite.



Sooo what else will he profess to know, but not know anything about?????

And who will be right there lapping it up?

I understand your point, but the longer this gets drawn out the less "silly" it becomes. If it was all just silly rumors then just produce the birth certificate to the proper authorities and we can all move on to more important things. I still think that there should be some kind of procedure before they get in the race, like somebody stated earlier. At least then, none of this would even be an issue.

One more thing. . . .it seems that there could have at least been a statement about the delivering doctor or something. . . .this is the doctor that delivered him in Hawaii, he's no longer alive, or something. . . .anything! But we haven't gotten any of that at all. It seems like it should be such a non-issue, but the actions or lack there of, have made it an issue.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

You know, I've run into plenty of people that claim to be Christians and are the most backstabbing, conniving and downright crooked individuals you ever saw, while still banging their bibles. Who gives a flying rats ass what his religion is ? You claim to not care, but you keep bringing it up in thread after thread, ad nauseum.

The same goes for the birth certificate issue. Don't you think that it was investigated to death already? Do you really think they would have let him get all the way to President elect without proof? This whole thing goes along with the Loch Ness Monster & Bigfoot......the stuff that urban legends are made of.

Let it go already.

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Sure, I'll let it go when you admit that he looked like a hypocrite, and proclaimed a faith that he knows nothing about...

But, it's the same old, same old and I for one am getting sick of it AD NAUSEUM. The only response I keep hearing is, "but he says he is"

Or: "Now we are on the religion thing"

Or: "Let's move on"

I can understand when things are vague, when assumptions are made that have not a very strong basis, to respond in this fashion.
But when this is something so concrete, and contains so much evidence of his lack of knowledge, but yet proclaiming knowledge and Belief in a religion..Why do you (collective you) still refuse to even see it for what it is???

I mean, how can you get beyond this?

Was it simply him giving lip service to appeal to an entirely different set of voters? But then again, this was 2004.. so..

If he was willing to do that in 2004, WHAT HAS HE SAID AND DONE in this ELECTION to appeal to your "feelings" and to make you drink his koolaid??????

What will he claim, in office, to know about.. and yet not know a thing about???

This is your opinion, your opinion is not fact.

If you could care less why do you keep bring it up? (That's a rhetorical question.)

Since you know for a fact Obama's beliefs aren't you the one judging him? Doesn’t that make you the hypocrite.

I'm positive you'll come up with something

Not my opinion, he stated it, I merely know that what he said is not in correlation with what the bible says.


*sigh* you just aren't getting it. Did you not read the interview? If you didn't, then you have no right to chime in.


I am wasting my time on deaf ears and idle hands.

Last I checked I had a right to “chime in” whenever I pleased.

I know exactly what you mean.

This is true, but you still didn't answer my question. I'll tell you what. You answer the quesiton I proposed, and tell me that you read the chicago Sun Times interview. Then tell me what you thought of it, and if you agree with what he said, or if you understand that what he said wasn't true to the Christian Faith.

Then we can talk further....

roiund and round and round we go!

Natural Born Citizen

FWIW, the justice's name is Souter -- not Suoter.

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Reading is Fundamental.

The idiots who start threads like this need to google where McCain was born. It wasn't the USA.

Wait so Senator John McCAin was born in the panama canal zone, he is not a natural born citizen of the United States, can someone kindly explain this. Peace... Catherine

Senators: McCain Is A 'Natural Born Citizen'

Senate deals with McCain's citizenship...why can't they do the same with Obama's?

We all know that. . .duh!

McCain's birth situation was completely different than what is being suggested Obama's might be. There is no question that McCain was born in the Panama Canal Zone, at a military hospital, while it was under US jurisdiction, to parents whom were both US citizen's.

Try to keep up.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

And there's no question that Obama was born in Hawaii, a U. S. state, to a mother who was a U. S. citizen.

But it seem to amuse some people to fantasize about this, so go ahead. I know I've spent the past four or five year fantasizing about Bush's impeachment. After all, a girl can dream.

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Reading is Fundamental.

First of all Hawaii was not a state when he was born but it was a US territory. His mother was a US citizen so no matter where he was born, he is a US citizen. McCain's situation is exactly the same, his parents were US citizens so when he was born in Panama Canel zone he became a US citizen. Both parties would not have run the risk of running a person without looking at the basic qualifications to be a president. Read and study the constitution.

Hawaii most certainly was a state in 1961, so there's never been any question of Obama's citizenship, except among the most desperate tin-hatters.

The McCain situation is different because the Constitution refers to a "natural born citizen" and there was some debate over whether a U. S. citizen not born in the actual U. S. qualifies. That has been resolved.

Both men were qualified under the Constitution to be president.

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Reading is Fundamental.

You're right in that the debate over McCain is that "natural born citizen" is not defined in the Constitution, but that has been resolved.

As far as Obama, there is still a question as to whether he really was born in Hawaii. It wouldn't be an issue for me unless his paternal grandmother wasn't claiming he was born in Kenya. His half-sister was born in Indonesia, yet his mother registered her birth in Hawaii as well. There doesn't seem to be a controversy around that.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

How sad and pathetic. Really, really sad and pathetic.

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Reading is Fundamental.

WOw I cannot believe we are still talking about all this. Once again if this was any doubt about where Barack H. Obama was born or McCain neither one of them would have been able to run for the job as being the president of the United States of America...Just kindly realize that Barack H. Obama will be our new president as of 1/20/09... Cannot wait for that day for him to be sworn in... It will be for me millions of Americans a day to be so proud and also a relieve that Bush will not longer be the president.. Catherine

Sorry, you are right. Hawaii became a state in 1959. I knew he was born around that time but I was not sure of the exact year. He was born in 1961 so he was born in the US.

Read52 thanks so much for clarifying all this .. Peace.. Catherine

Why? His own grandmother says she was there when he was born in Kenya. Is there a reason we should believe she is lying?

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

You really should do some self reflection about why it is so important for you to grab onto these nutty things. Honestly. I don't believe you are handling the results of the election in a very healthy manner.

I honestly think, still for some sadly they cannot come to grasps and realize that Barack. H. Obama is our newly elected president and perhaps they never will. However as I have stated before are we as a nation truly that dumb to not dig deeper into these false accusations about the so called where abouts of his true birthplace which has been proven over and over again. Seriously its time to move on and unite as one as a great nation.... Catherine

I do think this is a very important matter for the court system to deal with.

It seems so simple just for Obama to present to the court the proper papers. Instead Obama (or the people representing him) have chose to do legal manevours to avoid submitting the birth certificate.
Why???

Forrestlayne whom do you think is these people whom are helping him hide is true birthplace, do you seriously think the United States Goverment would let something like this happen and elect a man who has not proven by his birth certificate he is a naturally born citizen. Do you truly believe he has people on the inside whom are covering up for him in a illegial scheme just so he could be elected our new 44th president.. I truly find this so hard to believe and furthermore its all just more trouble stirring up the pot... Catherine

I didn't realize you spoke Swahili.

closed thread....post limit reached

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