BREAKING: Alan Keyes sues Obama over citizenship proof

As previously pointed out, anybody can sue anybody in this country for whatever reason they so choose. There doesn't need to be merit.

Oh, but, but, but -- it's Alan Keyes! Perennial candidate, perennial loser! Quake!!!

Dang, why didn't I buy stock in Reynold's Metals . . . .

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Reading is Fundamental.

Another article
'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location

I know it is from worldnetdaily...BUT it includes some important facts about previous lawsuits dealing with this "type" of issue before in Cal.

Also from the aricle:
"The biggest question is why Obama, if a Hawaii birth certificate exists, simply hasn't ordered it made available to settle the rumors."
"Among the states where cases are being tracked are Ohio, Connecticut, Washington, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Georgia and Hawaii, and there were reports of other cases being developed in Utah, Wyoming, Florida, New York, North Carolina, Texas, California and Virginia."

I do not think this issue is going to go away until Obama gives a court the proper papers.

No, it doesn't raise anything but more lunacy and tinfoil foolishness.

FYI, I know this is hard for you, but he has provided his birth certificate. This is only an issue for the extreme fringe people.

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Reading is Fundamental.

Since the courts found that Barry Goldwater was a citizen, that John McCain is a citizen, I don't see them finding that Barack Obama is not a citizen. I suppose it might possibly happen since Bush has packed the courts. It's a long shot though. It's interesting, this sudden interest in making sure an elected official is following the letter of the law given the last eight years of just the opposite.

I have to admit it's kind of fun watching all the right-wingers running around looking for anything that will give them a smidge of hope. I guess this all part of the mourning process. Since many of you were happy to share these words of advice to the Dems after the Bush elections, I'm happy to return the favor, "You lost, get over it."

This despiration is beginning to help me really understand how groups of people can talk themselves into a frenzy. Of course, many of these people believe dinosaurs and man were around at the same time, so that helps all this make a bit more sense.

And, I find it amazing a group of people whining about the Constitution and our rights under them don't have a clue about our legal system and burden of proof. There is no proof he was born anywhere but in Honolulu, Hawaii. His birth certificate has been certified by the state of Hawaii. Poof - done. This is nothing more than harrassment of the most despirate type and one has to wonder what the underlying cause of the harrassment is.

I hope the radical part of this country comes to terms with the outcome of the election. Honestly, it is bit concerning.

I think it's the same radical fringe that supports Palin for president on 2012, despite the evidence that she was extremely damaging to the ticket.

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Reading is Fundamental.

Obama has NOT provided proof to the court system. What is so hard to understand that someday he is going to have to turn that document over to the court.
It may seem crazy to some..just like Roe vs Wade was in our Supreme court system so is this case.

But IF (and that's a big IF) Obama was found not to be a citizen, why would the 'right-wingers' be happy? Wouldn't Joe Biden become the president??

That isn't how it works. If I sue you and say "Forrestlayne was born on the moon," you don't have the duty show me or the court where you were born. I have to prove why I believe you were born on the moon. And, if the court finds your "evidence" credible, only then is the burden placed on you to prove otherwise. Again, this is nothing more than nutjob harrassment.

RvW is in no way comparable to this case. The SC will not entertain this issue.

Nice try, but he only has to do it if a Court of competent jurisdiction orders it and if Berg and the other fringies jump through all the hoops first -- little things like subject matter jurisdiction, personal jurisdiction, standing, prima facie case. Haven't seen any evidence of that so far . . . just more fringe theories which have been repeatedly debunked. Repeatedly.


Linky dinky

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Reading is Fundamental.

The link you provided is from Friday, June 27th, 2008 at 05:21 p.m.

I will try to find the article from Nov about the Supreme Court justice setting a Dec 1, 2008 date for Obama to present his birth certificate to the court.

ETA: I really do not understand why Obama will just not release his birth certificate to the court. What is there to hide? And it would put an end to all these "crazy" lawsuits.
Seems so simple.
I have not seen any reason why he could not release the information to the court. Does anyone have a reasonable answer why Obama does not do that? Why keep on with these "crazy" lawsuits and employing a special lawyer to deal with them?
Ok..maybe Obama according to some people does not have to turn over the documents. Either way it just seems simpler and easier to just provide the courts with the information and go on with life.

Please do. Because not one reputable medium seems to have anything about it.

First of all -- no, it wouldn't. Not while you tinhatters are out there.

Second -- why should he?

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Reading is Fundamental.

LOL ------ uh .......... nope ............ LOL

This is an absolute waste of our tax dollars.

Article dated 11/09/2008

The Bulletin - Philadelphia's Family Newspaper - Fight To Reveal Obama's Birth Certificate Continues

That doesn't say the Court ordered Obama to produce his birth certificate. It said he has until 12/1 to respond to the petition filed by Berg for a Writ of Certiorari. If Obama chooses, he may respond by 12/1 -- or he can ignore it. The SCt receives thousands of requests for these Writs every year and denies about 99% of them.


Wanna try again?

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Reading is Fundamental.

"Mr. Berg filed a Writ of Certiorari in the U.S. Supreme Court late in October, in an effort to force Mr. Obama to produce the document."

Perhaps you should study how one appeals a court ruling to the US Supreme Court. (Hint - just study what a Writ of Cert is and who issues it .... LOL LOL LOL

I was asked to show a current article which I did.
That is all. At no time have I said that I believed that Obama was born somewhere else.

My whole point..is that WHY is Obama fighting so much to not show the actual "vault" birth certificate. And so far no one on this board can provide a "reasonable" answer to that question.

No, you were asked to show an piece from the MSM indicating that Obama has been ordered by the SCt to produce his birth certificate.

And you agreed to do so.

You did not do that.

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Reading is Fundamental.

Not one Obama supporter has posted a "reasonable" answer to WHY Obama is fighting so hard to not show his "vault" birth certificate.

Does anyone have any thoughts?

Because my son was born in Hawaii and his certified BC looks exactly like Obama's certifed BC. He has passports and everything else based on his certified birth certificate, that looks exactly like Sen. Obama's.

There is no "vault" certificate. No "long form." Proof of his birth is based on a certified birth certificate. He was born at Queen Kapioloni and I have no idea what happened to any papers that we signed and wrote his given name on. In the US, we prove our citizenship by providing a certified copy of a BC. Period! Unless, I suppose, a bunch of maniac internet nutjobs decide that isn't enough for them because they are ......... NUTJOBS.

If my son were running for president no one would be making him and the state of Hawaii do anything more than provide a certified BC.

Public service announcement -- with the exception of rare cases, (look up original jurisdiction if you want to) the US SC does not entertain new evidence. It looks at the lower court ruling and listens to oral arguments and briefs based on the lower court rulings.

No one, no matter what, has to produce anything evidentiary to the SC. The SC could remand the case to the lower court and require more evidence be reviewed because their ruling couldn't have come to the same conclusion based on the available evidence, but the SC doesn't look for or review additional evidence on a Writ.

It is not a REASONABLE question...it is uber desperation raising it's ugly little head in a FUTILE effort to start crap in my opinion, and nothing else. Intimating that the supreme court ORDERED the document to be delivered is an outright falsehood.

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Have the courage to be yourself.

I wonder why the 9th Commandment keeps popping up in my mind these days ............

Let's say I file suit alleging that you, or some male member of your family, is the father of my youngest. Are you willing to submit to DNA testing to prove you're not, or should I have to first offer some proof that you are? I think you should submit to testing. Can you post a "reasonable" answer as to why you wouldn't?


Berg has shown nothing. NOTHING! Why should Obama pay any attention to this little gnat of a man?

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Reading is Fundamental.

LOL, I was misreading this as the 9th Amendment, which I know a little something about, having written a law review article on it, and couldn't imagine what it had to do with anything!

Of course, this whole thread is about a whole bunch of nothing, fantasies of a raving lunatic of a pissant man, so . . .

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Reading is Fundamental.

A vault birth certificate is a SIMPLE piece of paper. Comparing it to DNA sample is like camparing apples to oranges. DNA sampling can have a lot of errors involved.
I just have a hard time understanding why Obama would pay money to a special lawyer to deal with these "crazy" lawsuits. When it is just a SIMPLE thing to produce.

Of course, time will tell. The truth has a way of coming out..one way or other.

Wow, you completely missed my point.

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Reading is Fundamental.

Because the way one deals with nuisance suits is with a motion to dismiss and quick brief explaining the rationale for the dismissal.

To do otherwise is to give the suit credibility and that encourages more nuisance suits. Then, when the victim of the suits finally says "that's enough" everyone goes "OOOHHH, AAAHHH. We're on to something..."

The day internet rumors and public hysteria lead to court cases that extend beyond dismissal is the day you really need to start worrying.

Please tell me what that is - Vault Birth Certificate.

Because, as I stated before, my son was born on Honolulu and there is no such thing as far as I am aware of. Or, perhaps I am a part of the huge conspiracy and the State Department is too, because he was issued a passport based on his certified BC that happens to look just like Sen. Obama's.

A vault birth certificate is the original long form.

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Have you read the lawsuit? It is a joke. And, it isn't just about about a birth certificate. The complaint is a trash pile of many conspiracy theories - Obama can't address each internet rumor specifically because many are just luntic, and as such, can't just pick and choose which ones to show proof of. Honestly, how does one challenge what someone else publishes on Wikipedia or what the nutjob rumor of the day is going to be.

Seriously, it refers to Wikipedia for God sake. And, states "references cirulating on the internet..." At one place it states, "There are rumors cirulating on the internet that ...."

http://www.obamacrimes.com/attachmen...om%20Pacer.pdf

And, that is not what one who has been born in Hawaii has in their possession. Hawaii issues a certified birth certificate. As someone with a child born in Hawaii, there is no such thing (vault whatever) required to show proof of US citizenship.

We are talking a simple birth certificate at this point.
The vault verison is a long form copy that the person has to request.

Children who sign up for Little League has to have their birth certificate to play ball.
Teenagers applying for drivers license in VA now have to have their birth certificate.
Some schools you have to show birth certificate when applying.

But to become President of the US you do not have to provide a birth certificate.

Oh, bull, why don't you just stop lying? Or don't you know how to?

The birth certificate has been provided to the people who need to see it.

Phil Berg is not one of them.

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Reading is Fundamental.

Well, I suppose the fact that he did make it public and that it can be seen on the internet, that people have seen it and evaluated it for authenticity, and that there is no such thing as this vault copy required to show proof of citizenship for those born in Hawaii doesn't persuade you.

Perhaps the following might -

To be a Senator, one must prove citizenship - so he would have provided a certified BC at that time at a minimum - so I guess that puts the State of Illinois in on this grand conspiracy.

I have had to show my BC for the following reasons, of which I would believe Sen. Obama has at the least -The State Department - for my passport and to the Department of Homeland Security - for a security clearance. I may have had to show it to take the Bar Exam, but I don't recall.

Now, do you believe Sen. Obama has a passport and a security clearance? Do you believe the State of Hawaii, the US State Department AND DHS are in on this grand conspiracy?

I am not sure, but after reading a bit today, I think Congress makes the final determination of eligability between the EC electing him/her and the swearing in. So, when he is sworn in on Jan 20th, I guess the conspiracy will include Congress.

Did anyone demand to see Sen. Biden's, Pres Bush or VP Cheney's birth certificate? Did you demand to see Ron Paul's BC? I would think so, seeing as how this is such a HUGE issue for you now.

Just for the sake of argument, because I really have no idea if my son could request this "vault version," Have other elected presidents been required to solicit their state of brith for this apparently very precious bit of information?

You know this is all getting sooooooo tired leave the man alone. Leave Barack Obama alone he is a natural born citizen, drop it already its getting so old. Face the fact he will be our new President come 1/20/09 . Peace .. Catherine

Gary Kreep filed the California action

Maybe he'll finally get disbarred.

I am not for sure about other "elected" presidents. But there are cases mentioned in this article (from above)
'Constitutional crisis' looming over Obama's birth location

"In 1968, the Peace and Freedom Party submitted the name of Eldridge Cleaver as a qualified candidate for President of the United States. The then SOS, Mr. Frank Jordan, found that, according to Mr. Cleaver's birth certificate, he was only 34 years old, one year shy of the 35 years of age needed to be on the ballot as a candidate for President. Using his administrative powers, Mr. Jordan removed Mr. Cleaver from the ballot. Mr. Cleaver unsuccessfully challenged this decision to the Supreme Court of the State of California, and, later, to the Supreme Court of the United States."

"Similarly, in 1984, the Peace and Freedom Party candidate Larry Holmes was removed from the ballot"

He only has to be a citizen for all of those things you just listed above. Nobody is questioning that. However, you have to be a "natural born citizen" to be POTUS. So him doing any of those things you listed above in no way proves that he is.

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According to Snopes the birth certificate is real, the state officials in Hawaii has said there is no doubt that he was born there and the certificate is real. Also that state laws bars the release of the the certified birth certificate to anyone who does have a tanigible interest in it. All of you need to get over it, he won and that people voted for him , BECAUSE THEY WANTED A CHANGE.

snopes.com: Barack Obama Birth Certificate

So much for your statement above "But to become President of the US you do not have to provide a birth certificate. " And, he has provided his birth certifcate. He is a citizen of the United State. He is one of us. He is like us.

Seriously, do you believe there is one bit of evidence that indicates he was not born in the United States. Kenya records that show his mom was in Kenya when he was born? Kenya birth records? Do you not believe this Administration would have kept his mother's travel records quiet if the State Dept knew she was in Kenya around the time of his birth? They did track travel in 1961. Seriously .....

Perhaps this might help --
Hawaii DOH Talks About Sen. Obama's Birth Certificate | KGMB9 News H

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai‘i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai‘i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures," Fukino said.


Seriously? Do you think Hawaii is in on this grand conspiracy, too?

It really does not matter what we think.. it is in the court system. The courts will either dismiss the multiple lawsuits or Obama will have to deal with them.
Either way the "issue" is not going away quietly. You can not deny that the courts will have to deal with this one way or the other.

Part 1
YouTube - Phil Berg on Alex Jones Tv" What if ? " 1/3
Part 2
YouTube - Phil Berg on Alex Jones Tv" What if ? " 2/3
Part 3
YouTube - Phil Berg on Alex Jones Tv" What if ? " 3/3

ETA: Alex Jones is a "type of out-there person" but I was interested in what his guest Phil Berg had to say about his pending lawsuits.

The "Republican Party" is rapidly getting the reputation as consisting of liars, haters, and dividers who are racially and religiously intolerant. As long as sane people stand by and watch because the fallout may in any way benefit their agenda, it will die a slow and agonizing death.

While someone like you, who vote Libertarian may think this benefits your party, I don't believe that thought process is correct. I believe that if the nutters continue, Obama will get 60% of the vote in 2012.

It is up to people like you, who actually have a rational brain, to speak up and let others who might not want to vote for Obama in 2012 that there is another sane option that is not Obama or whoever the Republican party nominates and that your candidate can get more votes.

Ok. . .I found what I was looking for. The part that sits in my craw is that Obama's sister, Maya Soetoro-Ng, was born in Indonesia. She is a US citizen, that married a Canadian. Her mother registered her birth in Hawaii. If that is the case, then why couldn't Obama been born in Kenya and his birth registered in Hawaii for citizenship purposes?

Well, it turns out that there was a law in Hawaii that allowed the registrations of birth up until one year after the baby was born. So, as is the fact in Maya's case, she was born in Indonesia, registered in Hawaii, has a Hawaiian birth certificate and is a US citizen BUT. . .not a "natural born citizen." On the long form "vault" birth certificate, there is a place to list the COLB (country of live birth). That is why we won't be seeing Obama's long form birth certificate. He can still have a Hawaiian birth certificate, but have been born somewhere else. The only place that this will show up is on his long form birth certificate. His Hawaiian birth certificate, in short form, is not proof that he was born there.

Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country.

Hawai‘i State Department of Health

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- George Orwell Animal Farm

Do you have a link where it shows that they said he was born in Hawaii? This is the statement I found:

"Therefore, I as Director of Health for the State of Hawai'i, along with the Registrar of Vital Statistics who has statutory authority to oversee and maintain these type of vital records, have personally seen and verified that the Hawai'i State Department of Health has Sen. Obama's original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

It doesn't say that he was born in Hawaii.

And one of those state policies and procedures was the acceptance of "after the fact" birth certificates under the 1911 Hawaii Birth Certificate program. This program was for residents of Hawaii over the age of one who did not register their birth with the state originally. The state accepted some "alternate form of documentation." This "alternate form of documentation", once accepted under this program that was in existence until 1972, becomes "an original birth certificate on record in accordance with state policies and procedures."

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Why didn't you post the whole relavent part?

"Amended certificates of birth may be prepared and filed with the Department of Health, as provided by law, for 1) a person born in Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health or 2) a person born in a foreign country.
Who is eligible to apply and how to apply for an amended certificate of birth? "

Which leads to a link that you click on that says in part

"Who is Eligible to Apply for an Amended Certificate of Birth?
As provided by law (HRS §§338-17.7, 338-20.5), the following persons may apply for an amended certificate of birth:
A person born in the State of Hawaii who already has a birth certificate filed with the Department of Health and
has become legally adopted, or
has undergone a sex change operation, or
a legal determination of the nonexistence of a parent and child relationship for a person identified as a parent on the birth certificate on file has been made, or
previously recorded information in relation to the person’s surname and/or the father’s personal particulars has been altered pursuant to law.
A person born in a foreign country who has been legally adopted in the State of Hawaii."

Now he's adopted to boot!??

That's 2008. Not the case prior to 1972.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

This is common practice in many if not all states. Birth Certificates were not state issued in many (all?) states until the early 1900's. When issuing a Birth Certificate became law (at different dates in different states) people that were born before the law took place could still register their birth. I know at least 3 of my grandparents did this. They were born before Nebraska required Birth Certificates, so had none. Later in life they needed Birth Certificates and had to register their birth. This required some proof such as church records, written affidavit from people who knew the facts surrounding their birth, etc.

Where did those tin hats go? Looks like Hambirg could use one.

I'm curious what conspiracy theory the tin heads have to explain away the fact that Obama’s birth announcement was published in the Honolulu Advertiser on Sunday, Aug. 13, 1961 nine days after his birth?

Just so you know, as you get geared up for 2012, this is exacly why Sen. Obama won by such a wide margin. Grab on to policy disagreements or even how he ties his tie, but this despiration isn't helping your cause at all. The muslim rumors, the terrorist hanging arounder crap, the marxist/socialist/communist stuff --- loser arguments. The majority of voters have told you and your little rumor millers as much.

Yes. . .a written affidavit. Possibly just like the one used to get his half-sister a Hawaiian birth certificate. It is a register of birth to parents/or parent of Hawaiian residency. There is no dispute that she was born in Indonesia and holds a Hawaiian birth certificate. We don't know the COLB on Obama's long form until we see it.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

?????

Anybody can place a birth announcement in a newspaper. The announcement didn't come from the hospital and doesn't say where he was born. It is listed in the classifieds. It proves nothing.

http://www.wikileaks.org/leak/obama-...advertiser.pdf

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

YouTube - $1 MM Reward 4 Obama Long-Form Birth Certificate / Video

$1 MM Reward 4 Obama Long-Form Birth Certificate / Video

One Million Dollar Reward Offered For Certified Obama Long-Form Birth Certificate

Secret of the Rosary Films is offering a one million dollar reward for the certified long-form birth certificate of Barack Obama.

The long-form birth certificate must be certified by the U.S. Supreme Court.

Long form birth certificates are exact photocopies of the original birth record that was prepared by the hospital or attending physician at the time of the child's birth.

The long form usually includes parents' information such as address of residence, race, birth place, date of birth -- and additional information on the child's birthplace, and information on the doctors that assisted in the birth of the child. The long form also usually includes the signature of the doctor involved and at least one of the parents.

When Hawaii became a state in 1959, there were many people who resided there who did not have a birth certificate. From 1911 to 1972, in Hawaii a person -- over the age of one -- whose birth was not registered -- could apply for a short form birth certificate in Hawaii.

Obamas Kenyan grandmother stated he was born in Kenya. However, Obamas mother or grandmother probably filed an affidavit stating that Obama was born in Hawaii and the state of Hawaii issued the kind of short form certificate posted on the Obamas Web site.

This is the reason why Obama has not released a long form Hawaiian birth certificate to the courts it does not exist.

LMAO! I'm not worried in the least about 2012.

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Link to the half-sister's birth certificate please.

Still after 2 threads about Barack Obama and whether or not he is a natural born citizen. Omg people give it a rest... You truly cannot accept the fact, he is our newly elected 44th President of the United States. I so wonder if Senator McCain had been elected, if you all whom are so aganist Barack Obama being the president, would like us to start all this utter nonsense about Senator McCain birthplace or his personal dealings. All of this and where Barack Obama was born would never ever be a issue, Its only a issue because McCain lost and Obama won, Face it , it was time for a long long overdue change... Hambirg to you by the number of times you have answered into this thread shows us, just how upset you are that Barack Obama will be your new president. Realize it now or come January20th, 2009 you will be in total shock, seriously get over it already... Catherine

Well considering I'm not her family memeber I can't request one. . . .but I found this:

Obama's half-sister, Maya Kassandra Soetoro, was born on August 15, 1970, in Jakarta, Indonesia. Anna registered her birth as "born in Honolulu" shortly after her birth, as well. Maya would have a State of Hawaii Certificate of Live Birth, just like the one Obama posted on the Internet.

Maya would also attend the private Punahou School.

It was Maya, who has said that Obama was legally adopted by her father, Lolo Soetoro, and Maya also said, "There was always a joke between my mom and Barack that he would be the first black president."


Barack Obama's Family

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"No one believes more firmly than Comrade Napoleon that all animals are equal. He would be only too happy to let you make your decisions for yourselves. But sometimes you might make the wrong decisions, comrades, and then where should we be?"
- George Orwell Animal Farm

Oh, while they were sitting in Kenya with a nine day old baby, the Obamas anticipated that 47 years later their son would run for president so they just called up the newspaper and placed a phony notice, doncha on?

Even the Honolulu Advertiser is in on the fraud!

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Reading is Fundamental.

Thread being locked..........

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